UKC

Planning a first visit to Harborough Rocks tomorrow (Wednesday), late afternoon. I've not got a guidebook that covers this place, has anyone got a topo or pdf/word doc of some sort that they can send to me?
Better still meet me there and give me a guided tour.
Cheers
Alan

In reply to Alan Bates:

I think it's available on the Rockfax app for a small fee?

In reply to Alan Bates:

It's pretty obvious whats what with UKC logbooks on your phone. Really everyone in your position should be buying guidebooks as the efforts (even for Rockfax) are mainly voluntary and the standard will decline from the current high levels with no income stream.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Thanks Paul, I didn't realise they were available as an app download per crag, I've traditionally bought guidebooks, but looks like a good option for this kind of flying visit. Although the weather now looks a bit uncertain.

In reply to Offwidth:
Offwidth, the first sentence is helpful, thanks.
The rest gets my hackles rising, perhaps just your way of delivering it, or maybe the way I've read it.
It even has me ready to defend myself and tell you how many purchased guidebooks I possess (many with several versions) and how many rockfax pdfs I have paid for. Or how many topos/guides I've written and shared for free, some of which are now in guidebooks without a second thought of charging fee. But I've better things to do.
BTW, no likes or dislikes from me, just thanks and feedback.

In reply to Alan Bates:
I was being general about folk not buying guidebooks but since you responded with annoyance (as a good guidebook purchaser)...why didn't you apologise that it was a last minute decision and ask where you could buy a guidebook nearby or if not borrow one (I would have sent you my own script as a fallback option if you had). Too many climbers spend a fortune on travel and beer and whatever and from comparing climber numbers on crags to sales figures we as a group who like to perceive ourselves as good folk are simply way too mean on guidebooks.

In reply to Offwidth:

I'll be interested to see how this all pans out in the future. I love guidebooks, and have bookcases full. I just picked up the set of 1937 CC Snowdonia guides (Kirkus et al). Pride of place to my CC 'Froggatt Area' guide which was the first I bought in '79 when I started climbing.
Problem is, many areas are fully developed (actually still a lot to do with guidebook development wrt bouldering, but that's a separate issue - New North Wales Bouldering please!), and have well-produced excellent guides (say, The Peak). The routing boom from 70s to 90s are, however, over, with only a trickle of (mostly) hard, new routes and choosy filler-ins in these areas. Do you think there'll be enough to justify developing new editions to these areas in the future? You're closer to producing these things than me, so probably have a better view.
For me, I can see some areas catching up with the modern production idiom, larger format, full phototopo, route descriptions on the same page with matching index numbers etc. So there would probably be room for a new N Wales CC series for example.
After that though, if the Rockfax apps integrate the online user data from UKC logbooks, then I think that's the future. Out of interest, I just downloaded the Harborough Rockfax guide, which is ok, but obviously selective (buttresses not included, no lower tier bouldering). If that gets integrated with the UKC database, then it looks a very attractive proposition.

In reply to all:

I climbed at Harborough Rocks a few weeks ago with a friend who had an old guidebook, with all the routes in.

I'd now like to buy a guidebook. Is there a guidebook that is in print and that has all the Harborough routes rather than a selection? (I am no good with apps)
Lizzie

In reply to BusyLizzie:

All the routes at Harbough are described in Peak Limestone:

http://www.rockfax.com/climbing-guides/all/peak-limestone-2012/


Chris

In reply to BusyLizzie:

Bug the BMC to get their Southern Limestone guide published quickly. Date seems to be getting pushed back.
I have both BMC and Rockfax guides for all of the Peak and will continue to buy the latest versions of each. I don't go for apps (I am an old fogey, who likes the feel of books)
To all, of you want a good topo guide to Peak grit try POD's True Grit. Worth it just for the quality of the photos and topos. Even if you already have all the other guides. Pete is a nice guy!

Sod the lot of you miserable buggers who won't help this guy! let's hope for your sake you're never stuck anywhere without a guide.

Let's introduce a badge scheme - if you think, "no! I won't help you, buy your own guide book, nah nah" please wear a badge saying, "I'm a miserable unhelpful git", so you can be rightly shunned at the crag by the vast majority of more generous and helpful climbers (that usually abound here).

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
I think current Peak guidebooks, all of which I know well (definitives and selectives), are fantastic value, easy to use and they keep selling out (and more are on the way)... there is no reason why paper guides are in trouble yet in this area. New climbers are always starting off and they need new guides.

I can see Aps and wikis slowly eating into the market but I am not convinced this is bad and in any case we cant stop what the the future brings. On the plus side they will allow good stuff in unpopular areas to stay up to date better and to maintain current access information and the notification of changed character of routes (key broken holds etc) and to include newer stuff like beta vids. I also hope definitive producers can use them to stop filling paper books with combinations of crap, banned, or overgrown stuff that actively discourage purchases; and to put such stuff on line until (if) changes occur. Ap platforms currently have a useability issue on crags: until we have good quality colour sunlight useable e-paper displays (5 years?) many will prefer books just for readability. Books will always be preferred by many irrespective, as a reference (the 'toilet' research copy).

On those with old definitives considering buying the latest definitives, the coverage is a massive change from the old volumes. Aside from the obvious bouldering the newly listed route stuff is extensive, mostly OK to excellent (chossy infillers don't make number status in the Peak unless the editor has gone soft like Dave did with Stannington Ruffs)... also the annoying sandbags have been largely removed (pretty much all of them sub VS) so old fogies like me can onsight solo with fewer retreats; the added features (historic, tick lists etc) are designed to celebrate the climbers and climbs.

The best examples of what I regard as a perfect balance in a modern paper guides is actually not in the Peak: they are the new YMC grit guides (that I also I helped on), where Robin was allowed to get on with things with his team with knowledge of what we did in the Peak (good and bad).

None of this runs counter to my view that too many climbers are mean in counter-productive ways, like being reluctant to buy new guidebooks (or trying shoes on in shops, then buying cheaper on-line). Climbing day trips that must cost over £50 on average for non locals (adding fuel and reasonable w&t) are normal and unquestioned yet a guidebook that approaches artwork in some modern cases is sniffed at for being around £25.

In reply to duchessofmalfi:

I frequently share guidebooks with others at the crag. I am not a miserable bugger. I frequently find people who turn up at a crag without a guidebook and ask to borrow mine, I usually lend it. I have had thieving gits who walk off with my book, and my response is usually loud and pointed.
It is the miserable buggers who won't pay for guidebooks that results in short expensive print runs, costing me and others who do buy! There are some people on this thread who have spent many many unpaid voluntary hours helping to produce these guide books that people expect for free!
Please don't call us miserable buggers

In reply to johncook:

Guidebook volunteer hours (climbing that leads to a unpaid guidebook input) certainly number in the millions.

In reply to Offwidth:

Thanks for your efforts and the effort and dedication of the many other hard working volunteers.
Buy a guidebook, you know it makes sense. You can read it again and again in your dotage. (Remember electronic info is subject to random change. Nothing worse than looking at a copy of your thesis on floppy disc, and then trying to find a hard copy!)

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Peak Limestone it is then - thank you! Such a fun place 😊