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I have a problem wearing rock climbing shoes, I hope someone might be able to help?
My shoes are shaped so that the big toe is forced towards the smaller toes, a sort of 'bunion forming' position. This is causing me pain in the large big toe joint, particularly when smearing, it can be uncomfortable to walk afterwards, I think eventually it will become too painful to continue climbing and could lead to long term damage if I were to persevere. Having looked at all the makes and models I can find they all seem to be shaped more or less the same way (or worse.) The only exception being perhaps some of the shoes designed for very steep sport climbs, which are more asymmetrical, with a more natural 'foot shaped' last, allowing the big toe to remain 'straighter'. I don't think these shoes would be good for less steep ground.... 99% of my climbing.
I've tried using a larger shoe, with a fairly asymmetric shape and putting some padding and a thin stiff sole insert in, to help support the joint and limit the lateral pressure on, and movement of, the big toe. It's not really working and the shoe feels clumpy and imprecise.
One solution I can think of it to resole my original shoes (Evolv velcro bandit) , which are about the right size and at the same time modify the shape. I appreciate this would be difficult. It would probably require a modified last and it would be difficult to adapt the uppers and rand. Maybe it would be easier to make a similar adjustment from the bigger shoe (Red Chili velcro Spirit) , with more material to play with.
Another option might be to find someone who could make custom shoes.
Anyone else had similar problems and found a solution, other than going barefoot/stopping climbing :P ?
Post edited at 11:43
In reply to hamish-haynes:
Well this is funny, as on reading your username. I am reminded of another HH that had a pair of Firé classics off me which I had had resoled and were too baggy even for big routes with socks on but turned out to fit him perfectly!
Don't know if this is the same HH. Perhaps it is a genetic thing. If it is you you still owe me £15 for the resole with about 25years interest. PM me to arrange a payment plan or some cragging if it is you! (I'm away for a week or so in a few hours)
Would going a similar route with shoes help again: something loose and all day oriented and get them resoled so they bag out a little?
Well this is funny, as on reading your username. I am reminded of another HH that had a pair of Firé classics off me which I had had resoled and were too baggy even for big routes with socks on but turned out to fit him perfectly!
Don't know if this is the same HH. Perhaps it is a genetic thing. If it is you you still owe me £15 for the resole with about 25years interest. PM me to arrange a payment plan or some cragging if it is you! (I'm away for a week or so in a few hours)
Would going a similar route with shoes help again: something loose and all day oriented and get them resoled so they bag out a little?
In reply to hamish-haynes:
I think this will be much less of a problem than you think unless you are planning to spend your time on extreme granite friction slabs. Here are Dave MacLeod's thoughts on the subject:
http://onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.de/2010/09/review-vapour-velcros-and-ho...
I'm contemplating a pair of 5.10 Verdons as comfy multipitch shoes. They look to have a pretty ruler-straight inside edge without being too extreme in other ways, and reviewers generally seem to think they have a pretty good comfort/performance balance.
> My shoes are shaped so that the big toe is forced towards the smaller toes, a sort of 'bunion forming' position. This is causing me pain in the large big toe joint, particularly when smearing, it can be uncomfortable to walk afterwards, I think eventually it will become too painful to continue climbing and could lead to long term damage if I were to persevere. Having looked at all the makes and models I can find they all seem to be shaped more or less the same way (or worse.) The only exception being perhaps some of the shoes designed for very steep sport climbs, which are more asymmetrical, with a more natural 'foot shaped' last, allowing the big toe to remain 'straighter'. I don't think these shoes would be good for less steep ground.... 99% of my climbing.
I think this will be much less of a problem than you think unless you are planning to spend your time on extreme granite friction slabs. Here are Dave MacLeod's thoughts on the subject:
http://onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.de/2010/09/review-vapour-velcros-and-ho...
I'm contemplating a pair of 5.10 Verdons as comfy multipitch shoes. They look to have a pretty ruler-straight inside edge without being too extreme in other ways, and reviewers generally seem to think they have a pretty good comfort/performance balance.
In reply to hamish-haynes:
I'm surprised that you say this -- maybe we have a different idea of what counts as "asymmetrical", but I'd say there are a good number of shoes which have strongly asymmetrical lasts but aren't super-steep specialist shoes.
Obviously it depends what suits your foot shape and climbing needs in other respects, but how about something like the Sportiva Miura lace-ups, for example? They start out mildly down-turned, but break in to be fairly flat, and are great all-round shoes.
(If a stiffer shoe works better for you, the Miura velcros are actually a somewhat different design, stiffer and hold the down-turn longer. Worse for smeary slabs, but good on everything else.)
> Having looked at all the makes and models I can find they all seem to be shaped more or less the same way (or worse.) The only exception being perhaps some of the shoes designed for very steep sport climbs, which are more asymmetrical, with a more natural 'foot shaped' last, allowing the big toe to remain 'straighter'. I don't think these shoes would be good for less steep ground.... 99% of my climbing.
I'm surprised that you say this -- maybe we have a different idea of what counts as "asymmetrical", but I'd say there are a good number of shoes which have strongly asymmetrical lasts but aren't super-steep specialist shoes.
Obviously it depends what suits your foot shape and climbing needs in other respects, but how about something like the Sportiva Miura lace-ups, for example? They start out mildly down-turned, but break in to be fairly flat, and are great all-round shoes.
(If a stiffer shoe works better for you, the Miura velcros are actually a somewhat different design, stiffer and hold the down-turn longer. Worse for smeary slabs, but good on everything else.)
In reply to hamish-haynes:
Try Chilli Spirit Velcro in the correct size, good enough for both hard routes and all day wear. Used them for years and had no big toe probs. Sportiva and some others crushed my big toes.
Try Chilli Spirit Velcro in the correct size, good enough for both hard routes and all day wear. Used them for years and had no big toe probs. Sportiva and some others crushed my big toes.
Post edited at 13:17
1
In reply to hamish-haynes:
My foot shape also tends towards a bunion and my big toe does like a bit of support. After years of pain (especially on trad) I dumped the Anasazi style and found two surprising alternatives - but of course both were immediately discontinued.
Sportiva Cliff 5 - flat, stiff symmetrical and yet I was able to climb 7a (close to my limit) and a test of different shoes on an E4 Culm slab showed them to be the best! I would guess a similar alternative might be the Scarpa Techno X?
Evolve Prime SC - symmetrical and downturned. The downturn provides the needed support and seems ok on slabs, though out and out smearing might be interesting. These edge brilliantly but the round toe is poor on pockets. An alternative will probably be the Evolv Luchador.
With your foot shape you are likely to end up with dead space on the inside edge in front of your toe in an asymmetrical shoe like a Miura and I suspect your toe will have to work harder?
My foot shape also tends towards a bunion and my big toe does like a bit of support. After years of pain (especially on trad) I dumped the Anasazi style and found two surprising alternatives - but of course both were immediately discontinued.
Sportiva Cliff 5 - flat, stiff symmetrical and yet I was able to climb 7a (close to my limit) and a test of different shoes on an E4 Culm slab showed them to be the best! I would guess a similar alternative might be the Scarpa Techno X?
Evolve Prime SC - symmetrical and downturned. The downturn provides the needed support and seems ok on slabs, though out and out smearing might be interesting. These edge brilliantly but the round toe is poor on pockets. An alternative will probably be the Evolv Luchador.
With your foot shape you are likely to end up with dead space on the inside edge in front of your toe in an asymmetrical shoe like a Miura and I suspect your toe will have to work harder?
1
In reply to hamish-haynes:
A more aggressive shoe is probably going to place a greater force through the big toe joint verses a shoe that allows a more natural foot position in the shoe. Maybe you need something all together less aggressive as well as a more natural toe box shape?
I've used the Climb-X shoes sold by Cotswold in recent years, which have a natural foot shape. Only £45. The LS Cliff 5s as mentioned above would probably have been my second choice (never actually found a pair in my size to try).
A more aggressive shoe is probably going to place a greater force through the big toe joint verses a shoe that allows a more natural foot position in the shoe. Maybe you need something all together less aggressive as well as a more natural toe box shape?
I've used the Climb-X shoes sold by Cotswold in recent years, which have a natural foot shape. Only £45. The LS Cliff 5s as mentioned above would probably have been my second choice (never actually found a pair in my size to try).
1
In reply to Mr. Lee:
I think you may be conflating "asymmetrical" with "down-turned" and "aggressive" -- they don't always go together, though they often do.
An asymmetrical shoe actually allows a more "natural" foot position by having the point of the shoe over the end of the big toe, which (unless you have Morton's toe) is generally the longest toe.
A symmetrical shoe has the point in the middle, which (for most people without Morton's toe) means that if the shoes are at all tight, the big toe will get pushed sideways/inwards, into the "bunion-forming" position which the OP is complaining hurts their feet. Whereas an asymmetrical shoe lets the big toe lie more straight.
A down-turned shoe is designed to allow you to put more force through your big toe, but that might or might not be a problem for the OP if their toe isn't being pushed to the side. In any case, not all strongly asymmetrical shoes are down-turned.
> A more aggressive shoe is probably going to place a greater force through the big toe joint verses a shoe that allows a more natural foot position in the shoe.
I think you may be conflating "asymmetrical" with "down-turned" and "aggressive" -- they don't always go together, though they often do.
An asymmetrical shoe actually allows a more "natural" foot position by having the point of the shoe over the end of the big toe, which (unless you have Morton's toe) is generally the longest toe.
A symmetrical shoe has the point in the middle, which (for most people without Morton's toe) means that if the shoes are at all tight, the big toe will get pushed sideways/inwards, into the "bunion-forming" position which the OP is complaining hurts their feet. Whereas an asymmetrical shoe lets the big toe lie more straight.
A down-turned shoe is designed to allow you to put more force through your big toe, but that might or might not be a problem for the OP if their toe isn't being pushed to the side. In any case, not all strongly asymmetrical shoes are down-turned.
2
In reply to hamish-haynes:
They're expensive, but how about a pair of TC Pros? Just ask yourself "What would Tommy do?".
They're expensive, but how about a pair of TC Pros? Just ask yourself "What would Tommy do?".
1
In reply to slab_happy:
I'm aware of the difference. In my next sentence I was referring to asymmetric when I used the word 'natural'.
Actually my girlfriend suffers this sort of joint pain if climbing with an ill-fitting shoe, although with her it's because of actual bunions (not sure if the OP actually has bunions). Away from the toe box she likes a tight fit across the metatarsal heads to keep the 1st/2nd metatarsal heads in close proximity. Otherwise she gets similar instability and pain in the toe joint as described by the OP. I don't know if this applies to the OP or not but if the joint has the tendency to be painful then it's probably worth playing extra close attention to the width fitting to help stabilise the painful joint (ie no wider than necessary).
I'm aware of the difference. In my next sentence I was referring to asymmetric when I used the word 'natural'.
Actually my girlfriend suffers this sort of joint pain if climbing with an ill-fitting shoe, although with her it's because of actual bunions (not sure if the OP actually has bunions). Away from the toe box she likes a tight fit across the metatarsal heads to keep the 1st/2nd metatarsal heads in close proximity. Otherwise she gets similar instability and pain in the toe joint as described by the OP. I don't know if this applies to the OP or not but if the joint has the tendency to be painful then it's probably worth playing extra close attention to the width fitting to help stabilise the painful joint (ie no wider than necessary).
In reply to Mr. Lee:
Ah, I misread, sorry.
> I'm aware of the difference. In my next sentence I was referring to asymmetric when I used the word 'natural'.
Ah, I misread, sorry.
In reply to hamish-haynes:
I think your problem is what is referred to as halux valgus, the tilting inward of the big toe. As been said by others, look for shoes that are straight from the 1st metatarsal on. I had the same issue with 5.10 anasazi (otherwise great shoe), and found a lot of relief in scarpa's (vapour lace, stix, mago, also because they fit my rather wide feet well). Also the La sportiva Miura VS has been treating me well.
also see http://thomasbondphysio.blogspot.ch/2013/08/feet-and-rock-climbing.html
I think your problem is what is referred to as halux valgus, the tilting inward of the big toe. As been said by others, look for shoes that are straight from the 1st metatarsal on. I had the same issue with 5.10 anasazi (otherwise great shoe), and found a lot of relief in scarpa's (vapour lace, stix, mago, also because they fit my rather wide feet well). Also the La sportiva Miura VS has been treating me well.
also see http://thomasbondphysio.blogspot.ch/2013/08/feet-and-rock-climbing.html
In reply to hamish-haynes:
Like some of the other responders I've got a problem with a bit of a bunion, though only on one foot at present. If anything, what this needs is a less asymmetric shape (tending to a symmetric inverted V shape at the front, like the old Firés), not more asymmetric. I recently realised that the reason my Anasazis feel so poor at Pex Hill is that there is a lot of space along the straight front edge where the big toe should fit, since my big toe is bending away to join its mates. My usual solution is to wear alternative shoes that are really stiff (Ballet Gold, which can be bought via Bergfreunde but not as far as I know in the UK, or ancient pair of Kamet Joshua Tree boots), so the space by the big toe at the front doesn't matter so much. More "technical" shoes, so-called, make the problem worse since they tend to be highly asymmetric, so I plan to try some less demanding shoes in the hope that I'll find a better fit.
Like some of the other responders I've got a problem with a bit of a bunion, though only on one foot at present. If anything, what this needs is a less asymmetric shape (tending to a symmetric inverted V shape at the front, like the old Firés), not more asymmetric. I recently realised that the reason my Anasazis feel so poor at Pex Hill is that there is a lot of space along the straight front edge where the big toe should fit, since my big toe is bending away to join its mates. My usual solution is to wear alternative shoes that are really stiff (Ballet Gold, which can be bought via Bergfreunde but not as far as I know in the UK, or ancient pair of Kamet Joshua Tree boots), so the space by the big toe at the front doesn't matter so much. More "technical" shoes, so-called, make the problem worse since they tend to be highly asymmetric, so I plan to try some less demanding shoes in the hope that I'll find a better fit.
In reply to Kafoozalem:
My response, already posted, points out that I have a similar problem, so I will look out for these shoes you suggest!
Rob
My response, already posted, points out that I have a similar problem, so I will look out for these shoes you suggest!
Rob
In reply to Rob Davies:
Fascinating that those of us who are bunion-prone seem to divide down the middle into people who do better with asymmetrical shoes (which put the big toe into a straighter position) and those who do better with symmetrical shoes (which accommodate the foot as is). I wonder what it's to do with -- maybe the degree of progression of the bunion, or something?
IIRC, I've seen them in the Rock On shop at Mile End, if anyone's interested in them and wants to try them (they came up in another recent thread too). Though that was a year or so ago, so it would be worth phoning ahead to confirm they still stock them.
Fascinating that those of us who are bunion-prone seem to divide down the middle into people who do better with asymmetrical shoes (which put the big toe into a straighter position) and those who do better with symmetrical shoes (which accommodate the foot as is). I wonder what it's to do with -- maybe the degree of progression of the bunion, or something?
> (Ballet Gold, which can be bought via Bergfreunde but not as far as I know in the UK
IIRC, I've seen them in the Rock On shop at Mile End, if anyone's interested in them and wants to try them (they came up in another recent thread too). Though that was a year or so ago, so it would be worth phoning ahead to confirm they still stock them.
In reply to hamish-haynes:
I have similar issues and have gone down the asymmetrical route. My current performance shoes (Scarpa Stix) work well, if you get a bunch of shoes and look at them from the bottom you can work out which ones will suit straight away.
The key is to find the ones where the inside edge of the heel is in-line with the inside edge of the toe. So if you were to put the inside edge of the shoe against a ruler, the ones where the inside edge of the heel doesn't line up with the inside edge won't work for me. Unfortunately there's not a lot of them about. The new Scarpa Vapour Lace are surprisingly comfortable, considering that they're not as asymmetrical as the stix, I recommend trying them on.
I have similar issues and have gone down the asymmetrical route. My current performance shoes (Scarpa Stix) work well, if you get a bunch of shoes and look at them from the bottom you can work out which ones will suit straight away.
The key is to find the ones where the inside edge of the heel is in-line with the inside edge of the toe. So if you were to put the inside edge of the shoe against a ruler, the ones where the inside edge of the heel doesn't line up with the inside edge won't work for me. Unfortunately there's not a lot of them about. The new Scarpa Vapour Lace are surprisingly comfortable, considering that they're not as asymmetrical as the stix, I recommend trying them on.
Post edited at 21:47
To all of you that suffer with this problem, do any of you have reduced mobility of the knuckle/joint of that big toe as well? My right foot is slightly larger which makes buying climbing shoes tricky, but I've also recently noticed that the big toe on that foot also doesn't bend anywhere near as much as on the other foot, and is partially numb most of the time. I think that is the main reason I struggle to find comfortable shoes. Just wondered if a stiff/locked toe joint was a common theme here, or even numbness along the bottom/outside edge of that same big toe? Thanks.
In reply to NottsRich:
Mobility in which direction? I have no trouble curling my bunion-affected big toe down (flexion) , but it has very limited ability to bend back (extension) and is very painful if pushed that way, owing to bone build-up/inflammation in the joint.
I don't have any numbness, but Google seems to indicate that it can be a symptom, owing to nerve irritation/damage. Could be worth checking next time you see your GP, though -- you just want to make sure it *is* because of the bunion and not a sign of any other sort of nerve problem.
Mobility in which direction? I have no trouble curling my bunion-affected big toe down (flexion) , but it has very limited ability to bend back (extension) and is very painful if pushed that way, owing to bone build-up/inflammation in the joint.
I don't have any numbness, but Google seems to indicate that it can be a symptom, owing to nerve irritation/damage. Could be worth checking next time you see your GP, though -- you just want to make sure it *is* because of the bunion and not a sign of any other sort of nerve problem.
In reply to slab_happy:
Yes I'd guess it was exactly this. I usually use this grading scale at my work (as an orthotist) to grade progression (see the picture on page 3 of 6 of this link):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2954987/pdf/1471-2474-11-215.pd...
I'd guess that people who like the asymmetrical fitting are grade 1 (top right picture), as a tapering toe box is maybe going to pull the toe in beyond it's natural resting point and possibly create discomfort at the joint. Maybe people at grade 2 (bottom left) like a more tapering toe box, where the deformity is more advanced and a asymmetric shoe mean less vacant space in the shoe. By the time you get to grade 3 you'd be struggling to comfortably fit any high street footwear and likely not climbing shoes. The worse the progression the wider the forefoot becomes, and worse the ball of foot behind the big toe becomes in terms of being a stable weight-bearing point. I suspect all these factors influence what's needed in a climbing shoe.
> Fascinating that those of us who are bunion-prone seem to divide down the middle into people who do better with asymmetrical shoes (which put the big toe into a straighter position) and those who do better with symmetrical shoes (which accommodate the foot as is). I wonder what it's to do with -- maybe the degree of progression of the bunion, or something?
Yes I'd guess it was exactly this. I usually use this grading scale at my work (as an orthotist) to grade progression (see the picture on page 3 of 6 of this link):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2954987/pdf/1471-2474-11-215.pd...
I'd guess that people who like the asymmetrical fitting are grade 1 (top right picture), as a tapering toe box is maybe going to pull the toe in beyond it's natural resting point and possibly create discomfort at the joint. Maybe people at grade 2 (bottom left) like a more tapering toe box, where the deformity is more advanced and a asymmetric shoe mean less vacant space in the shoe. By the time you get to grade 3 you'd be struggling to comfortably fit any high street footwear and likely not climbing shoes. The worse the progression the wider the forefoot becomes, and worse the ball of foot behind the big toe becomes in terms of being a stable weight-bearing point. I suspect all these factors influence what's needed in a climbing shoe.
In reply to Mr. Lee:
Forgot to say -- that's interesting. Dn't know about the OP, but I *do* have bunions, which is one of the reasons I tend to geek out about this stuff.
Out of curiosity, does she find lace-ups work better for her than velcros? I've got favourite shoes in both categories, but the lace-ups do tend to give you more scope for winching the shoe tighter round the mid-foot. On one pair, I've put a knot in the laces after the toe-box so that pulling the laces tightens them round the middle of the shoe but not the toe-box.
It is an odd thing that a lot of the shoes being sold as less technical, non-aggressive, better for beginner/intermediate climbers or all day comfort, etc.. are also more symmetrical. Which I suppose may not matter as much if you're not fitting them as tight, or trying to stand on the very tip of the shoe.
But I suspect it leads some people to assume that asymmetry is more "unnatural", painful, and generally part of sacrificing foot comfort for shoe power. Whereas for most people it's actually more suited to foot shape.
> Actually my girlfriend suffers this sort of joint pain if climbing with an ill-fitting shoe, although with her it's because of actual bunions (not sure if the OP actually has bunions). Away from the toe box she likes a tight fit across the metatarsal heads to keep the 1st/2nd metatarsal heads in close proximity. Otherwise she gets similar instability and pain in the toe joint as described by the OP.
Forgot to say -- that's interesting. Dn't know about the OP, but I *do* have bunions, which is one of the reasons I tend to geek out about this stuff.
Out of curiosity, does she find lace-ups work better for her than velcros? I've got favourite shoes in both categories, but the lace-ups do tend to give you more scope for winching the shoe tighter round the mid-foot. On one pair, I've put a knot in the laces after the toe-box so that pulling the laces tightens them round the middle of the shoe but not the toe-box.
> My fault for using the incorrect terminology
It is an odd thing that a lot of the shoes being sold as less technical, non-aggressive, better for beginner/intermediate climbers or all day comfort, etc.. are also more symmetrical. Which I suppose may not matter as much if you're not fitting them as tight, or trying to stand on the very tip of the shoe.
But I suspect it leads some people to assume that asymmetry is more "unnatural", painful, and generally part of sacrificing foot comfort for shoe power. Whereas for most people it's actually more suited to foot shape.
In reply to hamish-haynes:
I've already posted some comments, but this thread prompted me to try a few shoes in Llanberis earlier this week. Most technical shoes with a straight inside edge that I tried had a lot of dead space by (up to 1 cm!) the side of my big toe where it bends away, so weren't good for me. But I found that Evolve Royale were a much better fit, though I had to go down to 42 to get them snug (usually I take 43 or 44 in other makes). As these were also among the cheapest (£65), of course I'm now happy.
I think the conclusion is simply try on a lot of shoes until you find something that's right for you.
I've already posted some comments, but this thread prompted me to try a few shoes in Llanberis earlier this week. Most technical shoes with a straight inside edge that I tried had a lot of dead space by (up to 1 cm!) the side of my big toe where it bends away, so weren't good for me. But I found that Evolve Royale were a much better fit, though I had to go down to 42 to get them snug (usually I take 43 or 44 in other makes). As these were also among the cheapest (£65), of course I'm now happy.
I think the conclusion is simply try on a lot of shoes until you find something that's right for you.
In reply to hamish-haynes:
I've been offline for a couple of weeks and didn't know there had been so many responses to my question, thanks for all the advice. Just to clarify a little; I don't have bunions, my big toes are pretty much 'straight' and in proportion to the smaller toes, though my left MT1 toe joint is more limited in flexion and my left foot (big toe) is 3mm longer than my right. I've been looking at the shoe shapes and trying on different models, as suggested by several people here, though have yet to find something that fits the bill of being a precise well performing shoe that doesn't push my big toe too much towards the smaller ones. I'll have a look at some of the suggested options and will post when/if I find something that works and may help others with similar issues.
I've been offline for a couple of weeks and didn't know there had been so many responses to my question, thanks for all the advice. Just to clarify a little; I don't have bunions, my big toes are pretty much 'straight' and in proportion to the smaller toes, though my left MT1 toe joint is more limited in flexion and my left foot (big toe) is 3mm longer than my right. I've been looking at the shoe shapes and trying on different models, as suggested by several people here, though have yet to find something that fits the bill of being a precise well performing shoe that doesn't push my big toe too much towards the smaller ones. I'll have a look at some of the suggested options and will post when/if I find something that works and may help others with similar issues.
In reply to ultrabumbly:
This is possible, the mists of time mean I really don't recall... any further info that may jog my memory?
This is possible, the mists of time mean I really don't recall... any further info that may jog my memory?
In reply to hamish-haynes:
This is exactly the same as mine, except swap left for right. I'll be interested in a solution if you fine one. FWIW, my Anasazis are uncomfortable on that problem toe.
> Just to clarify a little; I don't have bunions, my big toes are pretty much 'straight' and in proportion to the smaller toes, though my left MT1 toe joint is more limited in flexion and my left foot (big toe) is 3mm longer than my right.
This is exactly the same as mine, except swap left for right. I'll be interested in a solution if you fine one. FWIW, my Anasazis are uncomfortable on that problem toe.
In reply to hamish-haynes:
Try the Five Ten Verdon VCS. Tried some on the other day and for my feet the big toe was flat whilst the other toes were bunched up, so may suit a long big toe!
http://www.fiveten.com/us/verdon-vcs-grey
Try the Five Ten Verdon VCS. Tried some on the other day and for my feet the big toe was flat whilst the other toes were bunched up, so may suit a long big toe!
http://www.fiveten.com/us/verdon-vcs-grey
Post edited at 17:40
In reply to Mattilda:
I have had a look at the Verdon's but they were way too narrow. I have found something else though that may work well.... time will tell.... update here soon hopefully.
I have had a look at the Verdon's but they were way too narrow. I have found something else though that may work well.... time will tell.... update here soon hopefully.
In reply to hamish-haynes:
You're the HH who was the resident fixture at Hobson Moor around 1990 onwards complete with yer dad's old Whillans, right?
I'm Neil btw. We met up a few times after I went to uni but lost touch in the years after. You, me and Craig had a bunch of trips out in the Peak when we were young uns. You did a dastardly deed involving "maltloaf and pans" in a certain Spar one time , if you need anymore memory jogging!
I can't message you via the site due to your options. But drop me a line if you see this I'm also frequently away at the moment so it might be a while until I reply.
You're the HH who was the resident fixture at Hobson Moor around 1990 onwards complete with yer dad's old Whillans, right?
I'm Neil btw. We met up a few times after I went to uni but lost touch in the years after. You, me and Craig had a bunch of trips out in the Peak when we were young uns. You did a dastardly deed involving "maltloaf and pans" in a certain Spar one time , if you need anymore memory jogging!
I can't message you via the site due to your options. But drop me a line if you see this I'm also frequently away at the moment so it might be a while until I reply.
In reply to NottsRich:
Anasazis are responsible for permanently reduced movement of my right big toe. My fault, they were clearly the wrong shape for my foot and caused a lot of pain.
To get over it, I climbed in red chilli sausalitos for ages, which I think are a fantastic non-technical shoe, and things improved. I've since got on well with red chilli spirit vcrs and am currently using Scarva vapour Vs which don't seem to be causing too many issues.
Anasazis are responsible for permanently reduced movement of my right big toe. My fault, they were clearly the wrong shape for my foot and caused a lot of pain.
To get over it, I climbed in red chilli sausalitos for ages, which I think are a fantastic non-technical shoe, and things improved. I've since got on well with red chilli spirit vcrs and am currently using Scarva vapour Vs which don't seem to be causing too many issues.
Post edited at 16:17
In reply to bonelessivar:
Thanks for your reply, interesting! I'm stretching my mind back to when I first started noticing reduced mobility in that toe. I thought it was a result of spending so much time in B3s, so I changed them to a different brand/model so change the fit. They weren't bad before, but I hoped a change would help.
I used to climb in Sausalitos too and they were great. I wanted something more technical so got the Anasazis and never looked back. I didn't notice the toe issue until long after that, and it did seem to be made worse (or caused) by the B3s. Perhaps the Anasazis are the root of the problem. FWIW my toe has regained sensation and looks less white now, but still has the same reduced mobility. I haven't been in B3s since March, and rock shoes only a handful of times since last summer.
Thanks for your reply, interesting! I'm stretching my mind back to when I first started noticing reduced mobility in that toe. I thought it was a result of spending so much time in B3s, so I changed them to a different brand/model so change the fit. They weren't bad before, but I hoped a change would help.
I used to climb in Sausalitos too and they were great. I wanted something more technical so got the Anasazis and never looked back. I didn't notice the toe issue until long after that, and it did seem to be made worse (or caused) by the B3s. Perhaps the Anasazis are the root of the problem. FWIW my toe has regained sensation and looks less white now, but still has the same reduced mobility. I haven't been in B3s since March, and rock shoes only a handful of times since last summer.
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