UKC

Hi

I was reading some of the recommended route lists on the Arcteryx Lakeland Rock Revival post today.

Steve McLure's list recommends Overhanging Bastion. Has the North Buttress now been deemed safe? If not this is very very worrying. If the organisers are not aware of this well.....????

In reply to Pavey Ark:

Yes - surprising inclusion in light of recommendations

Slightly off topic, how risky is OB?, it's been moving for at least 2 years but route only takes couple hrs to climb , what the chances?

In reply to John Kelly:

If I remember correctly the last pitch would involve climbing on and around the block and crack .....perhaps not too wise under the circumstances.....freak me out a bit anyway.

In reply to Pavey Ark:

Just glad I've already done it!

In reply to Michael Gordon: Ditto - although I'm sure the chances of it coming off whilst one is there are very slim, you wouldn't find me doing it because the factors controlling the risk are too unknown.

In reply to John Kelly:


I think the chances of the buttress falling down are slim but the chances of there being loose rock where there wasn't previously quite high.

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

Good point
Came across large quantities of loose rock and soil top zigzag few years ago which I now suspect was all related

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:
Hi Stephen

Everything you say is true. However this is not a good precedent for the Rock Revival to be advocating. It would only encourage more traffic. The issue is not just about the route but hanging around the base etc. It just seems. The majority of climbers are avoiding North Buttress.

Maybe Steve McLure and Arcteryx are not aware of this. That was all really. The list also includes British Mountain Guide contributions. Im BMG too and i would not take my clients on the North Buttress. If it fell down i would have no legs to stand on legally and probably physically too.

In reply to Pavey Ark:

The website has been updated to tell people not to climb OB. There have also been a few comments on the other routes. Looks like an important stage was omitted when launching this year's list, ie checking the routes for suitability.

https://arcteryxlakelandrevival.com/routes-list/

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I had a quick look and the overriding feeling was that the list contained many many routes that don't need reviving, ones that are getting done regularly and therefore kept clean: White Ghyll Wall, Golden Slipper, D Route, The Crack, Eliminate 'A', even Mandrake and Lakeland Cragsman for Pete's sake! There are many more - I figured the whole point was to encourage the resurrection of routes that are becoming moribund, not just provide a tick list of routes that are already on tick lists!

In reply to Martin Bennett:

Look on the bright side, it is an excellent list of routes to avoid this summer.

In reply to Pavey Ark:

Quite, I wouldn't go near the place, and it should not have been on a list. But we had no say on the routes on the other lists.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

Resurrecting routes should be focussed on no-starred routes, or one or two stars. There are many in these categories that are excellent that will be forever lost without action. e.g. Green Crag Buttress, Thorgrim, Saraband, Shivering Timber et al. Raven's Groove is gone forever.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

>Raven's Groove is gone forever.

I agree with your general point, but presumably RG has merely reverted to the state it was in before the pioneers arrived, no?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Not sure about that.
Suspect it was cleaner naturally in the past as it had a star.
It is certainly high level vertical jungle grass now.
Suspect less pollution, less traffic, less climbers doing trad, going abroad, bouldering, etc.
Cooler wetter summers for twenty years have encouraged veggie growth also.
The star system actively discourages no-starred routes (of which many are excellent) from getting done.
In response guide writers have awarded more stars in recent years to encourage ascents.

In reply to Pavey Ark:

That's strange, it should have been removed from each of the lists, both online and in print, very shortly after they were published, as it's inclusion was most certainly an error. If have found an older version on UKC or elsewhere let me know and I will relay this information back to Arc'teryx.

For future reference, this isn't an initiative that is set up by a load of people at their HQ in Vancouver - it's set up by a single person here in the UK, on the grounds they wanted to do something positive for an area they love. Over the past two years the focus has been on cleaning dirty routes, which is good, but not for everyone. As such, the focus of this year's Revival was to inspire people to get out/about in the Lakes - hence the updated route cards and videos that are to follow - on some of it's best, clean rock.

With regards to the Revival as a whole, I think it's quite unfair to say that these routes are 'ones to avoid' this summer, I would say from previous experience of climbing in the Lakes that this couldn't be further from the truth - particularly on the high crags - it's simply not that busy. Furthermore, it's easy to point the finger and criticise, but what would you prefer - for brands like Arc'teryx stop getting involved with a positive initiative like this? I think we should be encouraging more people to get involved with access/environmental work, not less (and that comes from the perspective of someone that gives quite a lot of their free time to local area BMC work).

Anyhow, that's my two-pennies worth on the matter. No doubt a constructive forum basic slandering will begin shortly

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

I'd prefer them to stay involved, and to revert to the format of the previous two successful years (they must have been successful as I didn't get a T shirt last year as they'd already run out, even though it was fairly early in the season).

Some of the routes on this year's list are among the few in the Lakes where I've had to queue - things like White Gill Wall, New West, Eliminate A, Napes Needle, Botterill's Slab, Troutdale Pinnacle, C Ordinary, Truss Buttress, none of these are in need of any more ascents! There are plenty of other clean routes on the same crags that are rarely climbed and would have IMO been better choices.

On the other hand, most of the Local retailers and FRCC lists maintain the ethos of previous years, and I've already got a to-do list as a result

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Is now a good time to confess that I've never climbed on Dow Crag? I've been harbouring guilt about this for some time and felt like now was an appropriate time to confess.

Jokes aside, you make a valid point. The way I've always looked at queues is that they are an opportunity to do another, even more exciting route. As such, were I to be up at Dow Crag with parties already on Eliminate A then I would very much hope that I'd broaden my horizons to all of the other great routes you've alluded to - there's plenty of them up there.

With that in mind, let's get some suggestions down - ideas anyone? With a bit of luck it'll give me suitable inspiration to get my arse up to Dow within the very near future!

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Isenguard/Samba Pa Ti Rob - right up your street!

...and for the traditionalist in you, Intermediate Gully, without avoiding any of the gnarly bits on the right!

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

I should have known you'd have a few good recommendations. Particularly like the description for Intermediate Gully, which involves a 'troublesome' chockstone on P2 and an 'unsympathetic' chockstone on P4 - sounds like a route for the specialist!

I guess Side Walk is a must too, simply because I've got the Extreme Rock bug back after my recent trip to Scotland. Currently on 103 of 180, but inconveniently there is still a long way to go as the rest are all hard or in Scotland (thus hard to get in condition!).

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I disagree - there are plenty of 2-3 star routes in the Lakes which are total filth, especially once you get above the E2 mark. A list which encourages people to visit and do some slightly dirty but classic routes is much more likely to ensure they come back again than directing them towards mossy dank choss piles, which unfortunately most of the no and 1 star routes are/have become. The Lakes is no longer on the radar of most climbers - I know many who've climbed all over the UK, Europe and the rest of the world, but haven't even heard of Gimmer. So to me, anyway, the list seems pretty pragmatic in that it has a mix of routes which need traffic plus ones which will showcase how good the climbing is in the Lakes if you persevere with it.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
103 out of 180 is pretty impressive. Yes of course you must do Sidewalk then, it's a bit tucked away in a gully but has a real big route feel. Other brilliant lower grade E routes on Dow include Catacomb and Nimrod.

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

Yes Rob, get to Dow and do all the above - also you must do Tarkus and Pink Panther, plus Holocaust and Tumble. A short day out for you

In reply to danm:
Take your points, was not really recommending chossy dank moss piles, only routes that get sun. In fact that has been our problem in recent years - too cool, not enough sun, too wet, hence return to jungle. Serenity, Turbulence and Nantucket Sleighride are classic examples.

In reply to danm:
"The Lakes is no longer on the radar of most climbers"

Thank ***k for that!