UKC

Ok, this is the last time I shall post about this, I posted a couple of times in response to others, but I feel it is necessary for me to at least voice my opinion once more on my own.

I am very sad and sorry it has gone this way. I am clearly part of these 'pesky migrants' who have 'wangled their way into the UK .' Ehh no, we were/are still all members of the EU and it has been a great thing, I came as a student from Germany 20 years ago and it was on the basis of mutual exchange. I stayed. There have been many students and staff exchanges. I myself have been to several countries on the back of the Erasmus exchange - as an UK employee. Since then, all my adult life, I have lived here and paid my taxes, married, bought a house, had a kid and continued to contribute to the economy. I have not been a burden on the NHS, ok, I had a baby and I wanted to have it at home, but they made me go to hospital, but that's about it, and the staff were great at the hospital.

Migrants, there is not one way to describe them. It's people like you and me trying to live and survive. These are people who opened up your favourite curry house; these are people who came here during or after second world war because they were persecuted; they might have come here recently because they have been bombed out of their homes in Syria or maybe they just came because they thought it was a nice country where they could have a better and happier life.

I hope that people in the UK have it in their heart to continue with the idea of being a country that welcomes people, is tolerant and part of a larger community.

I sincerely hope people will vote to REMAIN in the EU.

If not this maybe not only be the end of the road for many Europeans here, but also the end of a beautiful vision of a peaceful and happy Europe.

In reply to Heike:

Go tell it to the Hugenots.

I'll probably be voting to remain, but those voting to leave are not by definition againist immigration, and well before the EU the UK welcomed large numbers of immigrants - both refugee and economic migrants.

In reply to Dr.S at work:


>What's that supposed to mean?

In reply to Dr.S at work:

The irony is that if we hadn't taken in the Hugenots, we wouldn't have Farage encouraging us to close our borders.

In reply to Dr.S at work:

My mother descends from the Huguenots and my father fled Nazi Germany. It makes me very sorry to hear the Nationalist language being bandied about at the moment.

In reply to Dr.S at work:

>And well before the EU the UK welcomed large numbers of immigrants - both refugee and economic migrants.

OK, how about some numbers.

Eg http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12043051/German-re... I have chosen the more righty wing source here for a reason so you can't complain of bias)

UK: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/27/net-migration-predicted-to-...

In reply to Heike:


Me too but I can't quite muster the smile any more. Fingers crossed.
jk

In reply to Heike:

My point is merely that the UK has a very long history of mass immigration, which predates its EU membership, and that just because some folk wish to leave the EU does not automatically mean that those folk do wish to end immigration.

Some of them want to end it
Some of them want to limit it
Some of them want to alter its sources
Some of them wish to enhance it

Some of them are racist scum - but I reckon there are plenty of those on both sides.

Germany's perhaps laudable, perhaps foolish, actions in the face of the current migrant crisi have little or nothing to do with the willingness of the UK to embrace immigration.

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Yes. All of us (in England), except a few of Celtic ancestry, are immigrants. Even the Celts were immigrants c. 500-400BC. Most of us are of Germanic stock. (Many thereafter mixed with Danish and Norman blood.)

In reply to Heike:


I will be voting to remain. However, I don't see how your comment has any relation to the referendum. The referendum isn't about the UK shutting itself off from the world it is about leaving a union that many in this country believe to be doing us more harm than good.

Yes the EU is the biggest trading block in the World but there are so many other opportunities out there. Take food imports for example even if the UK wanted to accept food imports from country X we can't unless that producer has been approved by the EU and the labels on the food meet EU standards etc. then that food can only be imported through an EU border Inspection Post (BIP) not every port is a BIP so it in effect it restricts competition. The market place should allow countries to negotiate their own deals on top of EU wide deals so for example if the UK wants to take in food from country X and the food inspection officers for that country are happy with the safety aspects then why not allow it? That is just one example. I have plenty of others etc. Even though I am pro EU it needs radical reform!!

The UK has a vast history of welcoming immigrants and I do not see that changing regardless of the outcome. I'll be honest I love the concept of EU freedom of movement but I also believe that it is discriminatory to other parts of the world.

But, like I say on balance I am voting Remain.

In reply to Heike:

Hey Heike,

You're always welcome here.

Not with everyone, clearly, but with most people, I'm sure.

There might be some hard times ahead, but you'll get through them.

And I really think it's unlikely we'll end up outside the EEA, whatever happens with the EU. If we do, my family and I might have to move, too, but I don't think it will come to that.

In reply to Alan M:

Ok, here is a chart from the BBC about the numbers of migrants which have been voiced as one of the main concerns by the Brexit supporters. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131911
If you don't like the BBC I can give you other links.

In reply to skog:

i hope you are right! I just feel I have to do something before it is too late

In reply to Heike:


I don't see the relevance of your links to my post. I was talking about EU freedom of movement not the current refugee and migrant crisis. I personally think the UK should be taking in a lot more refugees and migrants from the current crisis especially unaccompanied children etc. However, that and EU freedom of movement are two different things.

Like I say I am voting remain but I want radical EU reform and I gave an example of unnecessary interference in the running of countries such as food imports etc.

In reply to Alan M:

I think you might be missing the point.

A lot of people who moved here from other EU countries - on the basis that it was OK to do so, they spoke the language, and they quite fancied it - came here for a while, and have since put down roots and built lives and families here.

As I've said, it's probably not likely that they'll be kicked out en-masse - but faced with numerous major public figures going on about how awful immigration is, how many problems immigrants cause, and how we need to get net immigration down, the UK is not currently a very friendly place to be such a person - it's easy to feel that you're not welcome, and 'not likely' feels a long way away from 'certain'. You may have thought you were just like everyone else, living your life and contributing, but now a lot of people seem to be telling you you're actually a problem.

The anti-immigration rhetoric sounds a lot different when you, or a close family member, actually are an immigrant.

Whatever your views on the referendum are, please take a moment to consider how it feels to be in that situation.

(I hope I haven't misinterpreted your post, Heike.)

In reply to skog:
Thanks Skog, this is not my my only point, but I think it is a very raw and important point with many people in my situation - exacerbated by the thing that we can't vote, being Europeans. It makes you feel helpless. So, thanks for pointing this out!! You have described the feeling of helplessness, annoyance and despair of the EU community very well. It is just how I ( and I daresay other EU citizens feel).
Heike

In reply to Heike:

It's sad to hear you feel like that, Heike. I hope things work out for you. I live in London and we like immigrants. Successive UK governments have made a complete mess of the UK's relationship with Europe. Rather than trying to negotiate a better deal solely for the benefit of the UK and upset our neighbours, our government should have tried to work with all the other countries trying to identify common problems and trying to work those problems out for and with everybody. We can't be the only country with grievances.
I have family in another European country and they aren't sure how they will be affected if the Leave camp win........we live in uncertain times.