UKC

Does pulling up on a hold require more strength from your fingers than just hanging on the same hold? By extension then, is doing pull ups on a fingerboard the same as just hanging?

In reply to squicky:

F=MA

Pulling up requires no more force than hanging once you're moving. Transitioning from hanging to moving upwards requires additional force vs simply hanging.

Pullups use different muscle groups in different positions to deadhangs unless you do your deadhangs in a variety of positions of course.
jk

In reply to squicky:

I think just basic physics proves that pulling requires more force on the fingers than just hanging. How much more I don't know but I think it's significant and will depend on speed and acceleration. Theoretically one could do the pull up extremely slowly to minimize the force on the fingers and perhaps the extra required force wouldn't be that much greater. But that would require a longer hanging time and in the real world it's not an efficient way to climb.

Doing pull ups on a fingerboard is definitely not the same as just hanging. Even if you're really good at doing pull ups on a bar and can hang a reasonable time on an edge it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to crank pull ups on the edge for the same amount of time you can hang on it.

I know this because my early training of pull ups was on a bar and was reasonably strong and when I came to do them on finger edges I was totally rubbish, despite the fact I could hang the same blocks for a reasonable amount of time. I guess its down to specificity.

Personally I think doing pull ups on edges is much better training for climbing than simply hanging (though of course you might well do both).

In reply to squicky:

And there will also be more force when lowering back down, the deceleration of your bodyweight at the bottom of the rep.

In reply to squicky:

After becoming rather interested in getting strong, i discovered that since man evolved the way he did, the structure of the arms is set for a load to be carried in hands at waist level position. Thus with crimped fingers in a pullup position the finger tendons are getting really battered and tennis elbow usually ensues.

Give it a try. But stop when your elbows start hurting.

If you are pulling weight up on a hold, then yes. You require more strength/friction (may not be more maximal strength for that certain hold-but more work will be done so more strength/friction is required to balance the books) than simply hanging. Not simply because you are from stationary, accelarating body weight. But because the biomechanics of a pullup force slight shifts/rolls in load of the hand/fingers. Which is counterbalanced by additional athletisim.

In reply to squicky:

Not really - as you have to lift your weight so that requires extra energy. Also when hanging you can hang off your skelton and not use your arm muscles very much (fingers still need to hold however), but once your arms aren't straight you have to use the muscles a lot more. This is why you clip/hang with straight arms.

In reply to springfall2008:

We aren't talking about energy for the entire pullup. We're talking about strength at the contact point.
Didn't see stp's post above until now. Good post!

The problem with pullups is body movement altering finger position and weakening the application of power.
One way to look at is is, fingerstrength/friction being a finite entity and when the threshold is breached. Contact is lost. So lets say a dead hang is your absolute finger limit, whether strength or friction. Would you be able to do a pullup- ie accelerate your body mass. Errr no chance. Doesn't matter what your lats are capable of, your fingers can't do it.

Thanks all! It's certainly a trickier problem than it first appears. Might bring a bit if variation to fingerboard workouts too!

In reply to zimpara:

Agreed, I missed the point that the OP said "fingers". But yes I agree with what you are saying, if you could only just hold on with a dead hang then there is no chance you could pull-up. Why, because the pull up means lifting your weight and hence more force on the fingers. However if it's done slowly then it won't make much difference to your fingers but it will be much harder work on the rest of your muscles.

In reply to springfall2008:

I Just did a quick calculation on a scrap of paper in which I figured that if you can accelerate your body upwards from stationary by 25cm in 0.25 seconds then you have accelerated by 8ms^-2, which is close to gravity (9.8ms^-2), which you are working a against, so the forces within your hand would be almost doubled.

However, I don't know if those distance and time are realistic. I thought it might not be too far off for a typical pull-up