UKC

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/labour-mp-jo-cox-shot-in-leeds-w...

Scary. Sad. rumours of "Britain First", being shouted?

In reply to ThunderCat:

Does seem concerning. Although wouldnt put too much weight on any rumour right now.

In reply to ThunderCat:

I don't think we should speculate at this time. It's not yet fully clear that she was the intended target, though that'll probably be the case.

Hope she makes a full and speedy recovery.

In reply to ThunderCat:

She is reported as being critically ill.

In reply to Trevers:


Good point. Sadly MPs surgerys attract all manner of nutters.


+1

In reply to ThunderCat:
Death announced. She had two young kids.

In reply to ThunderCat:

So saddened to hear this. Whatever we think of our politicians this is not on. I would like to think that the murderer is a "one off" lone nutter rather than affiliated to ANY particular political opinion.

In reply to lummox:

Alas, etc. RIP.

T.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Awful. Just awful.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Terrible news.

It's all too easy to mock our politicians sometimes for things they say or do, but occasionally we forget that they are normal folk who are doing their best to represent constituents, in the public eye and are therefore vulnerable to nutters. She seemed a breath of humanity and normality in the Westminster bubble and I'm so sorry for her tragic loss.

In reply to Babika:

Well put, it's tragic for her children.

In reply to Babika:

Well put.

Absolutely shocking news

In reply to FesteringSore:


Unlikely, though. The political discourse has degenerated, or more precisely, has been deliberately degraded. Pandering to the gut feeling of ill informed idiots has therefore pretty much replaced argument. Unfortunately it is probably true that this is the only way to win an election or referendum in a society that finds the exploits of the Kardashians and their ilk newsworthy. I guess this is the price politicians will have to pay in the future, although unfortunately not the ones who dragged the discussion down to its current levels.

We had the same situition here in Germany, when some Pegida piece of shite tried to kill the social democrat candidate in the Cologne mayoral election (fortunately she survived).

CB

In reply to ThunderCat:

Terrible event. From what I've seen she was a really decent human being and will be a loss not only to her family but also to the country.

In reply to ThunderCat:

From her husband:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jo-cox-dead-mp-s-husband-brendan-c...

Beautifully put.

In reply to ThunderCat:
Horrific.

I looked at Britain Firsts FB page and as expected their supporters are calling it either a hoax or the left murdering one of their own to get what they want..

In reply to Roadrunner5:

Absolutely.

And I wonder if whoever disliked the last two posts will have the courage to post openly about why they did it.

I doubt it.

In reply to Roadrunner5:

Who the hell is disliking yours and Flopsicle's post? While there is a small number of right cnuts on these forums I didn't think there were any quite that bad.

Maybe the disliker could grow one and say his/her piece.

In reply to Removed User:

I didn't dislike the posts (I post my comments openly) but I do think that speculation about who did what and the attitudes of various political parties/anger has no place on this thread, and certainly not at this time.

In reply to Removed User:



I don't even want to give them airtime by acknowledging them. Ignore them mate.

In reply to Removed User:

I have a random disliked, I don't think they actually read the content.

Tbh I honest don't think BF are behind this, well apart from inciting anger and hatred, but I also don't think its a hoax nor an inside job.

In reply to elsewhere:


Simply awful.

In reply to ThunderCat:

She was extremely young. I can only imagine the pain caused to her family. Bastard.

In reply to Removed User:

Again not I'm not the disliker, however this is a very hard thread to like, and perhaps the fact that 3 people "like" it being a tragedy for her children.

I very nearly did dislike a few posts - not because I disagreed with what was said, but because I didn't like the fact this young woman has been shot and stabbed - that's the probelm with th like/dislike buttons - they mean different things to different people

In reply to balmybaldwin:


It's a good point. It would be nice if the mystery disliker clarified their position though.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

I tend to think that the likes are expressing agreement with the sentiment/content of the post rather than liking what it is about.

It never occurred to me to use the like/dislike buttons any other way (I'm not a fan of the dislike button) but you raise an interesting point.

Anyway, to return to the point of the thread, yes, utterly awful that this poor woman's family have lost her in the blink of an eye in such a horrific way and also that a sitting MP in this country has become victim of what seems to be a politically/ideologically motivated murder. I heard the police news statement on R4 while driving back from work. Shocking and very moving to hear how obviously shocked Joan Walley and Andrew Mitchell were. I'd never heard of Jo Cox before, have done some reading and she sounds like a resoundingly good egg.

In reply to ThunderCat:

The Indie has some background on the guy arrested, very ordinary.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jo-cox-detained-man-describe...

In reply to ThunderCat:

Terrible event. Met Jo Cox through my work as a union steward. She represented the area covered by the hospital where I work. A very kind and talented MP, head and shoulders above most of the lobby fodder in Westminster. A sad loss.

In reply to winhill:


and possibly with certain views.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jo-cox-dead-thomas-mair-suspect-so...

In reply to ThunderCat:

Unbelievably sad.

jcm

In reply to ThunderCat:

One doesn't like to link to the Sun, let alone at a time like this, but this article,

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1293698/labour-mp-jo-cox-has-died-after-being...

, and in particular the line 'She had Muslim women around her trying to help',

deserves a little publicity.

jcm

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I'll admit that I "disliked" roadrunners post, as I did not think running to the BNP/Britain First website to see what those vile sh1theads were thinking, and spreading it here, was productive, or respectful of Jo Cox..

In reply to ThunderCat:

I will add this too; a few of my psychotic/schizophrenic clients have believed the MI5/CIA/Jesus is controlling them, if they do something wrong, should we blame the MI5/CIA/Jesus?

In reply to Big Ger:
I suppose that would depend whether Jesus was running a hate campaign at the time.

jcm

In reply to Big Ger:
Wrong question. If you make a concerted campaign to espouse negativity, dehumanisation and hatred, should you be surprised when a damaged person takes to violonce? I'm sure the useful idiots presented as the heads of Britain First are surprised, but that's only because they're f*cking idiots.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Dreadful day. Whatever issues, or affiliations the guy has, the toxic atmosphere over the last few weeks is probably culpable too. Farage, I'm pointing at you especially, but not exclusively.

Dislike to your hearts' content. I've a vigil tomorrow with my CLP. As her husband said, keep fighting. As Bob Dylan said, now ain't the time for your tears. RIP.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


What utter rubbish you speak.

The mentally ill, especially when experiencing an acute episode, are more influenced by the voices inside their head, and a state of delusion, not "campaigns."

The fact that the Remain camp are trying to make political capital out of this just goes to show how low they will stoop.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Neighbours described the suspect as "a quiet person" and "a loner" who regularly worked on people's gardens in the area.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/16/suspect-in-mp-killing-descr...

Where was his involvement in any campaign? Surely that is more evidence that he was going through a breakdown?

I'd hate to be his clinical manager right now.


Nice of you to use this to political ends. No, not nice,.

In reply to Big Ger:

Straight onto the required narrative aren't you: brown = terrorist, white - mentally ill.

For what it's worth it is perfectly possible to have mental health problems and still be completely culpable for murder and hate crime so let's see what comes out of the wash eh?

Either way it is a depressing depressing thing, on top of a shitty time for this nation, and made all the more grim for it being down the road for me. A good MP and so it would seem a good person.

In reply to Big Ger:


Get a bloody grip man... This really isn't the thread to be accusing others of what you seem to be up to yourself?

In reply to Big Ger:

You don't even come across as believing what you write.

Just in case though: Not *his* campaigning; the campaigning of people like Britain First.

If mentally ill, as reports would suggest, then I have nothing but (useless) sympathy with him. However, f*ck those who spread fear and hatred, because they are careless at best, but more likely sociopathic or worse.

In reply to Removed User:


Please withdraw that.


I should know, I have two clients in court in the next month.


It would be good if people could just concentrate on that.,

In reply to Clauso:


Quote where I have attempted to make political capital, I've tried to PREVENT this being used for that end.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:


I do.


So why conflate his problem with them?

In reply to Big Ger:


No, you're right. Because he has a history of mental illness, we can discount whatever he said during the attack.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:


Again, you're making things up. No one has claimed that.

However,

In reply to ThunderCat:
I'm dipping out of this debate now.

Obviously my views, based on my experience, are not welcome, and they are being twisted and used to political end.

I profoundly, and vehemently, dislike and deny the accusation of "Hardonicus", I'm disgusted by him. (has any report NOT mentioned that Mair is mentally ill FFS?!?!?)

I apologise to Thundercat for any disruption, to what should have been a memorial thread, is my doing.

In reply to winhill:

Well, the perpetrator's got what he wanted, his face plastered all over the national press. I don't have the words to convey my feelings about this. My heart goes out to her family.

In reply to ThunderCat:

At times like this one is reminded of what the majority of real MPs are about. Decent people doing a difficult job.

In reply to Big Ger:

I think you made a really good comment about how someone who is (possibly) as mentally ill as Mair can do such a thing. he may well be acting in a state of diminished responsibility.

you skewered it with your comment about Remain.

Everything i have seen from both sides of the debates and across politics has been one of agreement - that campaigning will be suspended, that the discourse has become too poisonous and that MP's across the house are in complete shock and disgust at what happened.

As for Britain First - they're losers, but they espouse hatred and bile and they need to stand back and realise that shouting their version of "turbulent priest" was always going to end in someone getting killed

In reply to Big Ger:

I do wonder what your response would have been had the killer shouted "allahu akbar" instead of "Britain first".

In fact, i was so curious that i went back and checked:

From the Lee Rigby incident




Does it smell like hypocrisy tinted with racism/xenophobia around here or that's my socks?

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

Suspect has links to hard right groups. Should this be classed as a fascist act of terror?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jo-cox-dead-thomas-mair-suspect-so...

In reply to Mr Lopez:

on the radio someone said they thought they heard "put Britain first"

No idea of the truth, but that would put a slightly different slant on it IMO (I am in no way supporting BF at all, just wondering if they are being linked to this murderer for sharing a name with a statement)

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I in fact agree with BG on this case. The reasons people end up commiting these atrocities around here i believe is more to do with mental issues than anything else. Propaganda of any type on the 'extreme' spectrum is very powerful, and it can be pretty efficient on tipping a mentally unstable person over the edge be that in the name of religion, political ideologies, or whatever the poor guy end up being brainwashed with.

In reply to Mr Lopez:

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-wa...

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Given that Jo Cox was an advocate for Syrian refugees, supported the EU and had close links to the British Asian community and that she was murdered by a right winger I'm just surprised "The Scum" haven't revived their infamous "GOTCHA" headline.

In any case their article in the link is the usual diabolical piece of journalism you would expect from them. They keep repeating the phrases "loner" and "mentally ill" inferring that being either of these things was a crime in itself but of course "The Scum" conveniently neglect to mention that that the murderer was someone who shared their vile right wing political views, one of their own essentially.

In reply to Big Ger:



I don't think I've ever read a more ill informed ignorant comment about mental illness.

In reply to Big Ger:

People who suffer from mental illness are not solely defined by their illness.

It's quite possible, for example, for someone to be a horrible racist who happens to be mentally ill.

We don't know the full facts of this yet, and it may look quite different when we do.

But I think it would be quite wrong to to dismiss this as the act of someone mentally ill, when it is very possible that there is much more to it.

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:

Ha ha. Agree, but I'm guessing you aren't aware of soppygob/big gerks self proclaimed occupation.

In reply to ThunderCat:

I imagine the press and the world will blame the far right, many MPs too, as it will potentially aid the leave campaign.

What it should highlight are insufficient funds in mental health care, but that's a bigger problem, so they'll ignore it.

In reply to ThunderCat:

The more I read and hear about Jo Cox the more heartbreaking I find this. What a wonderful woman she was.

In reply to ThunderCat:

BTW, it beggars belief that a thread like this has descended into contributors arguing amongst themselves and resurrecting old grievances. Kind of ironic.

In reply to doz generale:


Depends what the investigation uncovers. The last attack involving someone running round with a knife and shouting about Allah was fairly quickly and correctly filed under mental illness, regardless of the perpetrators religion.

In reply to summo:



Like most important issues, it isn't binary! Hopefully all contributing factors will be looked at.

In reply to Big Ger:


Thanks for replying. A fair comment. Re the mental state of the perpetrator, that'll be for the examining forensic psychiatrist to evaluate and for the courts to determine its relationship to his actions. So I won't speculate on it further. All the scenarios outlined on this thread seem possible, trying to guess which actually happened is not useful at this stage.

What a truly horrible event.

In reply to ThunderCat:

It comes as no surprise to me this has happened, though it has really shocked me that it has happened to someone who has dedicated her life to helping others.
Batley and Birstall are horrible shitholes that are rife with drugs and violence.
A very sad affair.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Here's Jo Cox speaking in parliament on the plight of Syrian refugeees

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jun/17/jo-cox-mps-call-for-h...

When you see Nigel Farage and his poster yesterday, I know which side I'm on

In reply to Big Ger:

So Leave didn't try to make any capital out of the Orlando shootings because the guy was a muslim. No, no of course not. Christ almighty, have some humanity.

In reply to The New NickB:


I agree, but if people are receiving better mental health care, it 'might' not matter if you are as racist as Trump and believe in the right to bear arms.

The more concerning thing for me is how he obtained a weapon and ammo. He doesn't sound like someone with lots of underworld gang land connections.

In reply to Ridge:


I guess belief in one, proves the other.

In reply to summo:


It seems he had, presumably online, connections to White Supremesist groups in the U.S., who sold him manuals on firearms. The weapon is thought to be homemade.

The picture emerging looks like one of someone isolated from society though mental health issues and possibly family circumstances being drawn in to online communities with extreme ideologies.

In reply to summo:


At first sight this looks like quite a witty comment, backed up by an emoticon, but on a second glance it makes no sense whatever. Perhaps you'd care to explain?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


I would interpret it as meaning if you believe in religion, you are by definition mentally ill.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Yes, that's one of the possible interpretations of it, and one of the more embarrassingly irrational ones (as if a belief in anything can prove anything.) Then we're left with the logical mess of the grammar. Because: are you seriously suggesting the converse (implied by 'the one: the other') is true, that if you believe someone is mentally ill that proves they are religious? Come on.

In reply to ThunderCat:
lived with grandmother, brother says he wouldn't hurt a fly - remember that film released 16 June 1960? ..

In reply to Big Ger:


I'll respond on Sunday. I'm a signed up campaigner and both campaigns have suspended campaigning today and tomorrow as I think you must know, out of respect for Jo Cox.

Martin

In reply to The New NickB:

Probably a recommissioned old rifle or replica. It looked homemade to a member of the public who probably never seen or handled a weapon. Where did he get the rounds from? Home made as well? That's some ability and determination for someone striken with a mental illness. And I thought viewing webpages about how to manufacture homemade bombs and weapons came with an instant visit from special branch? Maybe only if your name is Mustapha?

D

In reply to mwr72:


Could I perhaps point out that I taught in the Spen Valley for over thirty years, the area where Jo Cox was born and raised, before she became Head Girl of the local Grammar school. Yes, there are some pretty poor areas, but also many lovely ones, populated by honest, hardworking, kind people. Your comment does you no credit, and makes you appear, in the words of a Mr. McMurphy, "somewhat of a ...."

JW

In reply to ThunderCat:

the credibility of the witness who claimed he heard "Britain First" is under question, and he I fact gave up his free time to teach Asian people English Language Skills, 3 days a week.

He tried to seek help 24 hours before and was refused.

In reply to Dauphin:


Apparently his links to US nutcases and (Apartheid) SA are many years ago and probably pre date the interweb and modern surveillance software. Probably wrote off to an advert in Psycho Militia Monthly Jan 1982 and got a photocopied pamphlet through the post.

Despite the hysteria over 3D printers it's not difficult to make a functional weapon. I could probably knock up a crude smoothbore STEN gun in my shed over a few months.

As you correctly noted ammunition is the hard bit. Not going into details but it can be done from scratch, and modifying easily available blanks is doable. You won't make anything reliable that can be cycled through a complicated action but shit like this murder doesn't need that level of complexity.

Anyway, I'm drifting off the thread. It's just a miserable waste of one of the good ones, and it makes the world a darker place.

In reply to Bootrock:


Although I agree that cetain news reports appear to have been certain the 'Britain First' was capitalised on the basis of one witness, it's now clear that the killer was influenced by extremist right wing propaganda. As for the nice bloke who did good stuff angle - so did the 7/7 bombers. He fits the profile perfectly.


Welcome to the current state of mental health services in the UK...

In reply to malk:

Well spotted. Chapeau.

In reply to John Ww:

Perhaps I should point out that i live in Batley, my partner and her family have lived here far longer than you taught here. So perhaps am better placed than (dare I say) all others on ukc to comment on the area.
There have been numerous firearms offences in the last 12 months(incidentally I live less that 1 minute drive from where jo Cox was murdered) 2 months ago there was a machete attack(drug related) 30 seconds walk from my house
Round the back of my house there are Asian drug gangs dealing drugs in the cul-de-sac of garages, they would not move on until the next door neighbour threatened them(he is a Muslim doorman and built like a brick outhouse)!
I witnessed an armed attack on a group of youths by another group using knives and crow bars outside my local corner shop. My other neighbours(also Muslims) keep getting warnings from family back in Pakistan that they should move away because the area is a hot bed for extremism(incidentally a house was raided by anti terror police and a man arrested on suspicion of terrorist related activities just before Christmas)

Just because you worked in the area doesn't mean you know all that happens there, but if you live in the area, well...

Ps. I concede that spen is a nice enough area but stand by what I say about Batley and Birstall.

In reply to Bootrock:

According to the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3646408/Gas-fitter-insists-Jo-Cox-k... another witness, a Graeme Howard, as well as Clarke Rothwell, said he heard the attacker shouting 'Britain first'.

And, I now see, the Independent, the Guardian, and the Express.

In reply to Ridge:

Incredible speed they have these journalists with the pre internet research, no?

I agree it's not too hard to knock up a functional gat if you have the right tools and material.

D

In reply to Dauphin:


for a single shot, single use weapon, for use at very close range(ie zero accuracy), incredibly easy.

In reply to Bootrock:


In what way?

In reply to mwr72:


I should point out that my family have lived in Birstall for nearly 40 years, so perhaps I am better placed (dare I say) than all others on UKC to comment on the area.

I too can drive to Birstall market place in about a minute (depending on the lights) and it's usually easier to walk. Your observations about the crime and social problems locally are undeniable and a concern to everyone in the community but at the same time it's unfair to suggest that this is widespread.

I know about some of those incidents you have described close to home but, for the sake of a bit of balance, it's not the daily experience for us and many others in the town. The place has all the common problems perpetrated by a minority in a congested suburban area but John W's comments about the people and the green spaces are equally valid.

In reply to Dauphin:

The manuals were bought in 1999 apparently, so it seems the links to fascist groups go back a long way.

In reply to The New NickB:

It gets worse. Thomas Mair has just appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court and, instead of giving his name, said "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain.".

In reply to AndrewS:

Perhaps more to the point, comments about local drug and crime problems are absolutely irrelevant in the context of the targeted killing of Jo Cox.

In reply to The New NickB:


Not sure that's necesarilly so. There are no doubt lots of factors that lead to something like this happening. Local crime and might be one, or at least related. For example, it might have contributed to this guys anger.

In reply to The New NickB:

I didn't realize one of lee rights killers also had a history of mental illness.

Even if these hate groups aren't directly responsible they are indirectly, for creating the hateful atmosphere and fear of immigrants. I just saw a good radio commentary (LBC?) blaming the papers and groups.

In reply to summo:

over 500,000 shotgun licenses and 150,000 fire arm licences in UK. At close range a shotgun would have probably brought the same result. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if a small proportion (but probably worryingly high number) of mentally ill people had access to these legitimate weapons.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
There is also a photo of him on the Britain First website. Third photo down.

http://www.britainfirst.org/northern-brigade-activists-visit-26-mosques-acr...

In reply to The New NickB:

Possibly, possibly not. Who knows what went on in his mind.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Shot guns are harder to conceal, but yeah no doubt they get in the wrong hands..

But this also shows how right we are with strict gun laws.

We've had two murders by mentally ill people. One accessed a semi automatic assault rifle and metered 49, likewise the San bernadinho killer accessed similar.

Here mair could only access a limited weapon, who knows how many he may have killed with a more powerful gun.

In reply to Roadrunner5:

The man at Leyton tube station also had a knife not a gun. Would have been much worse.

In reply to marsbar:



Hope someone's screenshotted that - I'm sure that they've denied all knowledge of him.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:
It's interesting, mateen, the Orlando shooter with no apparent actual links to ISIS is called the ISIS shooter on Britain First...

However a murderer who has solid links to Britain first and killed with a political motive isn't the Britain First killer...

BF are also posting links about his mental health issues.. I've never seen them mention Lee rigbys killers mental health issues..

Their deputy leader has a video on their FB page denying any link to him and BF, hopefully a major paper wil get hold of that, if it is him in the photo linked above. Is that confirmed?

In reply to The New NickB:

Just incredible that the press managed to get hold of this information within hours of the horrific event. From where?

D

In reply to Dauphin:

If it was me searching for links I would be on the phone to people like Gerry Gable.

In reply to Roadrunner5:

Almost as interesting as dismissing any part of religious doctrine or political ideas for a man who stabbed innocent people in the name of a so called god, in favour of mental illness.

Yet a similar incident, his mental illness is dismissed in favour of his political allegiance.

You cant have it both ways.

In reply to Roadrunner5:

According to someone commenting on another angry voice, his neighbour has confirmed it is him. I don't know how reliable that is.

In reply to Bootrock:


Which was Iain's point I think.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Her sister's speech just had me crying.

Such a rubbish thing to happen to a family.

In reply to Removed User:



Sometimes things are so appalling that it seems wrong to express your emotions with a "like". It's probably best to avoid clicking any buttons in such circumstances but it's easy to see how a perfectly well intentioned person might feel that a dislike is the correct way to express their feelings.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:


I would agree, I think just like the big fuss over a mentally ill pilot crashing into the Alps, there has to be some level of access to doctor's records for some occupations, but also better healthcare otherwise people will simply avoid going to the doctor for help in the first place for fear of losing x or y.

In reply to summo: at the hospital my wife worked at which is the largest in a very violent city they had one crisis bed for mentally ill patients, which had a waiting list, they had no secure beds. So if they were dangerous they just went to jail/prison.

There was no provision to actually take people in and care for them if they were acutely dangerously mentally ill. This was the most murderous city in the US with a major drugs problem and subsequently major mental health issues.

I'm still I favour of gun reform but they need to address mental health, especially in the states because it's the perfect get out response for the NRA.. 'These people are mentally ill, it's not the guns' and so people are taking an either or approach.

Likewise in the UK we've got to somehow deal with these hate groups, they create the hatred and hostility which probably contributed to this guy carrying out the attack.

In reply to Roadrunner5:

Start with the dog whistle politics of the Tories and the brexit capaign, plus the tabloid press. Quite a few on here condonning Farage bringing up 'migrant aids' and the cologne refugees case. They should be ashamed today.

In reply to ThunderCat:

There's a fundraiser, for three of her favourite charities, chosen by her family. They seem well worth supporting.

https://www.gofundme.com/jocox

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:



Anyone with far right political views is, by definition, mentally ill.

In reply to mwr72:











corner shop. My other neighbours(also Muslims) keep getting warnings from family back in Pakistan that they should move away because the area is a hot bed for extremism(incidentally a house was raided by anti terror police and a man arrested on suspicion of terrorist related activities just before Christmas)


Back off! If Jo Cox had respect for the people of Batley who are you to voice your opprobrium? I have met and dined with many people from Batley and Birstall they are the Salt of the Earth.

In reply to Peter Metcalfe:


This is the issue, so is any mass murderer..

In reply to Pete Pozman:


Just because Jo Cox had respect for the people here doesn't negate the fact the area is a shithole.
I respect fully the work Jo was doing and think if a lot more people were like her the world would be a much better place, sadly the fact the majority aren't like Jo means the world is a harsh relentless place to live in.
I still stand by my comment about Batley & Birstall.

In reply to Pete Pozman:


He's someone who lives in the area and therefore has a valid opinion. I wasn't aware that all other opinions are null and void following this tragic event.

In reply to Ridge:

This makes me sick.

In reply to Pete Pozman:

This makes me sick.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dead-murdered-labour-mp-batle...

In reply to Removed User:




And what's even worse is that some cnuts will vote for the cnut.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:


But not many. That's the important thing.

In reply to Ridge:


That depends if labour tries to use it as a means to get ed balls back.

In reply to summo:

Jo Cox was a climber. Her son named Cuillin.

In reply to Removed User:
Was this the far right's plan all along? Their candidate might then pick up any anti-labour votes off a vacant field. I think if this creature contests the by election the mainstream parties have a responsibility to,do likewise despite their good intentions in standing aside. This candidate might also merit investigation as part of a conspiracy to murder investigation; to dismiss the murderer as a solitary " person with mental health problems" doesn't wash even for a second, and does a great disservice to ordinary folk with mental health problems.

In reply to colinakmc:


I doubt the various far-right factions have the ability to generate such sophisticated plans. And they wouldn't have known that the main opposition parties wouldn't stand - it's usually the case that all parties do have candidates in by-elections in the event of the death of a sitting MP, even when that MP is murdered.

In reply to tony:

You're undoubtedly correct as far as those pie-faced blobs in the "Five go mad in Wales" photos but at officer class level there will be a few very cunning people. While I don't have any grounds to believe that Jo Cox's murder was a planned and coordinated assassination, it is beyond doubt that the less unintelligent echelons of the far right, and I include UKIP in this, fully realised that their hate and fear mongering mantra would result in something like this.

The beardy shouty followers of Alan Ackbar play on this too, to great effect.

"All you have to do is convince them they're under attack. It works the same in any country." Hermann Goring.

In reply to colinakmc:

The numbers of Lib Dem, Conservative, Green and even UKIP supporters who would back an extreme right candidate in these circumstances must be vanishingly small. Some will back the Labour candidate as an act of solidarity the majority probably won't vote.

In reply to colinakmc:



What about someone who murders a group of people that don't share the same sexuality or beliefs as themselves?

Do we dismiss them as mentally ill?

Is religion a mental illness?

Does religion pray on the mentally ill?


Now don't get me wrong, this guys a murderous scumbag. And the loss of any life is deeply saddening, but you all seem to be quick to dismiss, or make excuses for or just plain ignore certain aspects of other Murders of people for differing beliefs or religious doctrine, but yet you all seem to be jumping at every point to blame "the right wing" or whoever else, or proclaim that every "Brexiter" is a murderous scumbag.

You seem to be making the very assumptions you all gob off so much about for every other attack.

It wouldn't be the first time someone has put words into the mouth of someone else who doesn't quite understand.



If this man was mentally ill, society has failed him and failed Mrs Cox.

In reply to Bootrock:

It's still murder.


I'm only a pitchfork waving peasant so am not qualified.


IMHO, yes (being slightly flippant here)


Yes. (No flippancy here)


No. I don't think anyone is saying that. You are conflating the verbal damnation being heaped on the racist and hate/fear promoting elements of the Brexit side (and Farage is a notable part of this) with disagreement with Brexit as a whole, which is either disingenuous or slightly hysterical.


Not sure what you mean here. There may be some very opposed voices on here but I don't recall anyone trying to find mitigating circumstances for Lee Rigby's murderers, for example.



I agree. A poor guy who is likely not very bright and wasn't dealt a good hand from the outset. Easy pickings for the bad 'uns. Most islamic radicals have the same profile. However at risk of sounding all daily mail (with the caveat that our subject here is a white englishman with far right leanings) we should maybe hold back the violins and recall that he may have been a poor guy last week but this week a mother and politician is dead and he is a murdering scumbag (as you said). Society has also failed in that there are enough of us stupid enough or lacking in general humanity to allow ourselves to be whipped up by bollocks, lies and propaganda, some of which is transparently recycled from 1930s Germany.

These are very ugly times.

In reply to colinakmc:


I doubt, for reasons outlined by posters above, this is part of some cunning far right plan to snatch power.

In fact, putting my tinfoil hat on, pro- Corbyn factions of the Labour party have more to gain. Momentum had her pegged for deselection as a 'red tory', whatever one of those is.

You've raised a good point regarding other parties not abstaining from a by election. What serves Jo Cox's memory better - a democratic election where the people of Birstall and Spen get to choose, or Ed Balls/Euan Blair parachuted into a guaranteed seat?

In reply to Bootrock:





Take a look at (1) the eye witness reports we've seen in the media (2) the perpetrators behaviour in court (3) the observation that he was very quickly assessed as lucid and fit to be questioned without an Appropriate Adult present. This man was motivated, focused and calm throughout. I very much doubt this was a lone wolf attack.
On the mental health issue - the disservice is to the millions of folk who suffer mental ill health. It's miserable, it's torturous, it's difficult to diagnose and the treatments are mostly primitive and have side effects. It's ugly and it corrodes souls but it is extremely rare for it to cause violence. So dismissing an act of savagery as "just another mentally ill person" stigmatises everyone else and may contribute to their social exclusion.

Regardless, I very much would like to know what the far right are up to. Intelligent they're not, but sleekit and cunning liars they usually are.




Agreed, but that's not necessarily a reason for that person not to be accountable for their actions.

In reply to colinakmc:


Who is dismissing it as 'just another mentally ill person'? As you say yourself, it's extremely rare for it to cause violence - so it does cause or contribute to violence, but thankfully not very often. I don't think taking the metal health issue out of this particular picture really helps anyone.

In reply to Removed User:

The knife attack at Leyton tube station was also by someone with mental illness. The family had been trying to get help for him without success. I do think we should look at the services for people with dangerous mental illness, and that doesn't mean I think all mentally ill people are dangerous. I have been a sufferer and I don't feel the need to stab people.

In reply to ThunderCat:


http://www.lbc.co.uk/jo-cox-witness-says-no-one-shouted-britain-first-13237...

"A sign in a shop by the spot Jo Cox was killed states the claims that the gunman shouted "Britain First" are untrue.

The message in the landerette's window says: "Please note, I did not tackle the gunman. And no one shouted Britain First at any time."

LBC's reporter in Birstall Bethan Davies spoke to Ahmed Tahir, the owner, who insisted he has not spoken to anyone who heard that phrase.

And Mr Tahir admitted he was worried for his safety after reports named him for making to original claim."

In reply to Bootrock:

There's a very good comment buried within all the partisan nonsense (on both sides) below that article:

"As for this article, what I see is a man who is quite rightly frightened that he will be treated as having ratted out Britain First and targeted for violence or intimidation. And that's the effect that terrorism has - it is not the death toll that's important, so much as the fact that people fear that they might be next."

In reply to Bootrock:

However he did give his name as "Death to traitors Freedom for Britain " in court...

In reply to Bootrock:
That's funny, because there are 2 other witnesses that said he did, a local man quoted in the guardian, and a gas fitter quoted in the daily mail.

Some of the comments with that article - wow.

In reply to colinakmc:

If you're into conspiracy theories, far more being suggested on the remain side, sacrificial lamb etc, well rehearsed responses...comparisons with other politician murders, similarities with shooters...blah blah. Whatever turns you on I guess...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-20/martin-armstrong-assassination-con...
http://www.ibtimes.com/jo-cox-false-flag-conspiracy-theories-swirl-twitter-...
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article55588.html

In reply to marsbar:


Totally agree.