UKC

What are other users methods for stick clipping up a route for solo top roping with mini traxion?

As oppose to setting anchors at the top of the crag and abbing back down.

In reply to ringostar:

What I do it tie the rope to a draw and stickclip the next bolt, and pull up the rope on a grigri. If it's really steep you'll need a footloop unless you are really good at one-armers. Clip in directly to the bolt, and stickclip the next one and repeat.
It's the simple and quick but you are only ever reliant on one bolt at a time, so quite dangerous

In reply to mark20:

Surely this method need not be so risky.

In reply to Stairclimber:

This method is risky but other methods may be less so (but I don't know Of any)

In reply to mark20:


Do it this way then - tie the end of the rope to a tree or some convenient anchor on the ground or failing that to the first bolt. Stick clip the next bolt with the Grigri on the long/slack end of the rope and use it to pull up to the bolt. And repeat. That way you are always protected by every bolt as you would be when leading.

If I haven't described it very well, look at it like this: Imagine for instance you are now sitting on the third bolt and you've stick clipped the fourth. The lower end of the rope is fixed to an anchor on the ground. The rope goes up through the bolts to the bolt above you and then down to your Grigri and then the slack goes down the a big loose pile of rope on the ground.

In reply to jon:

Sounds far more sensible.

In reply to jon:

That is dogging a lead solo ascent in effect, i'm assuming the OP doesn't want to get a grigri and rather, use his traxion. But you method is sound if he does

For what its worth, i lead solo with a grigri on trad.

In reply to jon:

I use a similar method but with one major difference: the 'safety' end of the rope — the one attached to a tree on the ground or the first & second bolt — is connected directly to my harness loop via a screwgate, and I just keep re-tying the knot to release more slack as I move higher. I actually use two screwgates so I can tie a new figure-of-eight and clip in before releasing the lower one.
The stick-clipping/Gri-gri work uses the other end of the rope.
It sounds a bit complicated but once you get used to it things run pretty smoothly.

In reply to zimpara:


Thank you.


Hmmm, me too. Like gods amongst men, eh?

In reply to Pete O'Donovan:

Yes, even better, Pete. In fact any variation along those lines is better than relying on just one bolt. There was a fatal accident last year in the Owens River Gorge where a climber was solo bolt to bolting with a clipstick (and not protecting himself) when the bolt he was sitting on snapped. http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2595487/Broken-bolt-in-Owens-5-16-b...

In reply to jon:

Yep I appreciate that is much safer. But on short things in the Peak I'm going up, there would be so much slack if your top bolt failed that you'd hit the floor before the one below would hold anyway. I'm sure there would be some way around this, so that you are 'leading' from the previous bolt as well as 'toproping' from the one above but then things are getting more complicated than it's worth.

Makes me think actually, on quite a few short sports routes there is only ever on one bolt keeping you off the deck a lot of the time anyway!

In reply to mark20:
Yes, I was just addressing your own comments about flaws in the system. There are indeed ways of dealing with exactly the problems you mention - Pete's way, for instance - which you could further refine when there's a possibility of hitting the ground by substituting a clove hitch for the fig8 to make it infinitely adjustable as you move up...

In reply to jon:

I think that makes a lot of sense....not sure why it hadn't occurred to me??

In reply to jon:

Very telling read - when you see the pics further down the thread of the bolt head and the 'fracture' rusted across the whole width, clearly it was never going to hold any weight. One bolt is not enough.

In reply to ringostar:



I'd be reluctant to use a mini traxion for this, no matter what configuration you come up with. Falling onto all those teeth cutting into the rope ain't good in my eyes. Perhaps a Gri Gri or similar that doesn't use teeth to grip the rope.

In reply to ringostar:

My variation on the theme is this:

One end is tied to the first bolt or sound ground anchor (tree).
This goes to a gri-gri on my harness and is the lead rope.

The other end has a Fig8 and a screw gate. This is clipped to the top krab in the quick draw in the clip stick.
Assuming now that you're hanging from the first bolt, to which you've climbed and clipped in.

The gri-gri is holding you on the rope through the first bolt. Stick clip the next bolt. You now have a rope hanging down from the second bolt, to which is fixed a shunt and a foot loop on a prusik (I forget the name, but that arrangement where the prusik loop is wrapped around a krab and the rope to make it easy to release).

Climb the rope, and pay out on the gri gri as you go. If the top bolt fails, the jolt onto the gri-gri will be brutal and it will lock. When you get to the bolt clip your gri-gri rope into the free lower krab of the QD. You may wish to clip in directly too.

Refit your clip stick and repeat. You should also tie your lead rope to the second bolt if you are just relying on the first bolt as your belay.

Depending on the length of your stick and the bolt spacing you may need to stand in a sling on the highest bolt you've reached. If you do, make sure that you are not attached directly to the bolt with a sling, but instead are belayed via your gri-gri.

This method has the temporary advantage that you weight each bolt with just your body weight for a while first. As you clip your gri-gri in and sit down on it, you double the load on the bolt (or thereabouts), so you may be happier clipping in directly each time and never weighting the belay rope.

My personal preference then is to thread the anchor, abseil off on both ropes and climb using the shunt. Make sure you centralise the rope first, especially if the end of the rope is tied to the first bolt - it is prudent therefore to make sure that the end of your lead rope is always on the ground and your first bolt belay is some way along the rope.

Down sides - you need a gri-gri, shunt, belay device and a prusik loop. You can substitute a clove hitch for the gri-gri - you are always sitting on another rope when you want to move the clove hitch, so it's no big deal. You can use a mini-traxion instead of the shunt.

Endless variations on the theme are available. All are a faff until you get the hang of them.

In reply to nniff:

Pete's method is pretty much the solution I was thinking of. In other words protecting yourself on the rope going up through the draws with a prussik/clove hitch to my harness whilst pulling out the slack to clip the next bolt. Also was thinking that I would definitely tie off the first two bolts as there is a lack of ground anchors around here.

And yes, in answer to the other questions, I'm using a grigri and mini-t and also happy to use a jumar/prussik too.

With this method, are you clipping up with a dynamic rope? As I tend to use a heavy duty semi static with the mini-t. My usual set up is either grigri on one strand and mini-t on the other (fig 8s in the middle of the rope). Or single strand with just the mini-t and put the grigri on underneath when I want to rap off.

nnif's method sounds very good, but I need to get my head around it and draw some pictures.

In reply to ringostar:
I often use a semi-static rope for this set up because there's far less stretch in the system, both for the stick-clipping procedure and the subsequent top-rope ascents (for which I use a Petzl Micrograb) but I realize that, in the event of something going wrong on the stick-clip ascent, the fall onto the 'belay' rope could be distinctly uncomfortable... Semi-static ropes are generally far more durable than climbing ropes and their low-stretch characteristics are very reassuring when doing tricky moves close to the ground.

However, if you want to use a dynamic rope (which I sometimes do) there's one further refinement that eases the initial stick-clip ascent: use the dynamic as the safety rope (and subsequent top-rope) but take a 10m section of static/semi-static rope for the stick-clipping. Even over a few metres, it's amazing how much difference there is jumaring/gri-gri-ing up low-stretch rope compared to dynamic, and what's more, the short length of rope makes it far easier to pull slack up through the Gri-gri when preparing for the next clip.

Jon's suggestion of a clove–hitch to micro-adjust the length of the safety rope is interesting, and something that could definitely speed up my own stick-clip procedure. I've tried using a second Gri-gri instead of fig. 8 knots but the weight of the hanging rope below keeps locking it.

Pete.

In reply to Pete O'Donovan:

Another thing to mention Pete, is to keep checking that your back rope ( the one protecting you through the lower clips) has not developed a lot of slack.

Stick clipping using the short length of spare rope works well IMHO and also stick clipping the Mini traxion to the top bolt, you can then pull up on a 2 :1 pulley with no slip back. Depends how steep the route is of course. Make sure you have some spare prussicks to sort any problems.

Having parted with all this first hand experience, I might add that because of a bit of slack, my Mini traxion is now almost broken and on light/ non climbing duties, I was lucky the main rivet did not rip apart ( catastrophic ) when the side cheeks parted and are now permanently distorted. A bit like my ankle broken in the incident

I now use a basic ascendeur and back up.

In reply to ringostar:

Ground anchor, clip runner, Grigri, loop, clove hitch on a bite, back to ground is the 'recognised' rope solo technique and is what they use on el cap