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and in Yorkshire in particular?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/yvette-cooper-receives-death-...
(please note: this post does not imply that all Leavers are racists, devoid of necks or approve of murdering women and children in the name of St George)
Post edited at 13:28
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In reply to Removed User:
What was that recent quote... 'If you pour in enough poison, someone is going to get sick.' or along those lines. With the general level of the rhetoric of some politicians in this country, I don't find it surprising that some people go too far.
What was that recent quote... 'If you pour in enough poison, someone is going to get sick.' or along those lines. With the general level of the rhetoric of some politicians in this country, I don't find it surprising that some people go too far.
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In reply to Removed User:
While in no way condoning any threat on social media, or in real life, this is a non story.
You receive a threat by way of the internet and being rightly upset you report it to the police.
There is a law, can't be bothered to look it up, that the threatener has broken and the police will take action.
If more people did this then there would be far less 'bullying' on social media.
It's what we tell all our pupils to do, adults need to do the same.
And as a politician grow a thicker skin and stop trying to score political points out of something so unpleasant.
While in no way condoning any threat on social media, or in real life, this is a non story.
You receive a threat by way of the internet and being rightly upset you report it to the police.
There is a law, can't be bothered to look it up, that the threatener has broken and the police will take action.
If more people did this then there would be far less 'bullying' on social media.
It's what we tell all our pupils to do, adults need to do the same.
And as a politician grow a thicker skin and stop trying to score political points out of something so unpleasant.
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In reply to baron:
I think you're missing the point that in a civilized society this shouldn't be happening. Telling someone to 'grow a thicker skin' when someone has death threats made against their children is disgusting, especially in light of recent events that have shown these 'threats' can become reality.
I think you're missing the point that in a civilized society this shouldn't be happening. Telling someone to 'grow a thicker skin' when someone has death threats made against their children is disgusting, especially in light of recent events that have shown these 'threats' can become reality.
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In reply to Removed User:
In fairness this is nothing new. I read that Farage gets them almost daily as do a lot of UKIP supporters. I suspect this is very much as Baron suggests....a good opportunity to score some points. The internet is full of arseholes and weirdos
In fairness this is nothing new. I read that Farage gets them almost daily as do a lot of UKIP supporters. I suspect this is very much as Baron suggests....a good opportunity to score some points. The internet is full of arseholes and weirdos
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In reply to baron:
Why does any of that make it a non-story, particularly in the context of Jo Cox's murder?
Why should MPs be forced to grow thicker skins in the face of death threats? Wouldn't it be better if the death threats weren't made in the first place? And why do you think Cooper is trying to score political points?
Surely it's important that high-profile figures such as Cooper draw attention to the fact that MPs have to cope with such abuse and threats as a normal part of their daily activities, in order that there's a societal understanding of what is and what is not acceptable?
> While in no way condoning any threat on social media, or in real life, this is a non story.
> You receive a threat by way of the internet and being rightly upset you report it to the police.
> There is a law, can't be bothered to look it up, that the threatener has broken and the police will take action.
> If more people did this then there would be far less 'bullying' on social media.
> It's what we tell all our pupils to do, adults need to do the same.
Why does any of that make it a non-story, particularly in the context of Jo Cox's murder?
> And as a politician grow a thicker skin and stop trying to score political points out of something so unpleasant.
Why should MPs be forced to grow thicker skins in the face of death threats? Wouldn't it be better if the death threats weren't made in the first place? And why do you think Cooper is trying to score political points?
Surely it's important that high-profile figures such as Cooper draw attention to the fact that MPs have to cope with such abuse and threats as a normal part of their daily activities, in order that there's a societal understanding of what is and what is not acceptable?
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In reply to Removed User:
This island is pretty much as it was before. Sadly people get murdered and threatened on a fairly regular basis, always have, probably always will.
There's nothing unusual happening. The IRA very nearly wiped out the entire cabinet, killed 5 people (including an MP...) and seriously injured scores more 30 odd years ago.
We didn't have rolling TV news and a mawkish obsession with tying bunches of flowers and teddy bears to lamposts in them days though.
This island is pretty much as it was before. Sadly people get murdered and threatened on a fairly regular basis, always have, probably always will.
There's nothing unusual happening. The IRA very nearly wiped out the entire cabinet, killed 5 people (including an MP...) and seriously injured scores more 30 odd years ago.
We didn't have rolling TV news and a mawkish obsession with tying bunches of flowers and teddy bears to lamposts in them days though.
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In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
Good point. Morons didn't have access to communication tools like facebook or twitter either..
Good point. Morons didn't have access to communication tools like facebook or twitter either..
In reply to Ridge:
>
Or maybe we didn't have the means to so easily register our disgust at such events.
>
> We didn't have rolling TV news and a mawkish obsession with tying bunches of flowers and teddy bears to lamposts in them days though.
Or maybe we didn't have the means to so easily register our disgust at such events.
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In reply to Removed User:
Not that it justifies death threats! But the title could also have been "Yvette Cooper receives death threats against her children over repetitive spamming"...
Not that it justifies death threats! But the title could also have been "Yvette Cooper receives death threats against her children over repetitive spamming"...
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In reply to baron:
I was at my grandparents funerals (they died with a few weeks of each other), where there were more police and body guards than mourners. Police reckoned that one or two of the death threats my politician was under at the time were to be taken a bit more serious than usual. Steady state was about ten murder threats at any given time, plus threats of all other kinds of violence.
No, politicians do not need to grow a thicker skin. Civilized society needs to stop pandering to the right wingers happy to cross these lines again and again, slowly building a threatening climate that eventually will cause someone to act on these threats (yes, there are some left wing activities as well, but overall in the 2010s this is a right wing phenomenon unlike, say, back in the 1920s and 1930s).
I hate chancellor Merkel for her politics, but hate the right wing Pegida scum calling for her removal even more. What I find almost unbearable is their using the neutral pronoun "das Merkel", essentially deliberately dehumanizing her and suggesting she be treated like a thing rather than a woman.
The right wing protesters in Germany and the leave campaign in the UK need to be called out for this toxification and deliberate increase of aggression in the political discourse.
They also need to be held responsible for the actions of the criminals they encourage with their dog whistling. Leave have indirectly incited the murder of Jo Cox in the same way the AfD Nazis are responsible for the arson attacks on refugee houses in East Germany, even if they never touched a petrol bomb with their hands.
Pointing this out is not unjustified point scoring, but essential self defence of a democratic political system.
CB
The politician in question is my uncle, makes more sense....
> And as a politician grow a thicker skin and stop trying to score political points out of something so unpleasant.
I was at my grandparents funerals (they died with a few weeks of each other), where there were more police and body guards than mourners. Police reckoned that one or two of the death threats my politician was under at the time were to be taken a bit more serious than usual. Steady state was about ten murder threats at any given time, plus threats of all other kinds of violence.
No, politicians do not need to grow a thicker skin. Civilized society needs to stop pandering to the right wingers happy to cross these lines again and again, slowly building a threatening climate that eventually will cause someone to act on these threats (yes, there are some left wing activities as well, but overall in the 2010s this is a right wing phenomenon unlike, say, back in the 1920s and 1930s).
I hate chancellor Merkel for her politics, but hate the right wing Pegida scum calling for her removal even more. What I find almost unbearable is their using the neutral pronoun "das Merkel", essentially deliberately dehumanizing her and suggesting she be treated like a thing rather than a woman.
The right wing protesters in Germany and the leave campaign in the UK need to be called out for this toxification and deliberate increase of aggression in the political discourse.
They also need to be held responsible for the actions of the criminals they encourage with their dog whistling. Leave have indirectly incited the murder of Jo Cox in the same way the AfD Nazis are responsible for the arson attacks on refugee houses in East Germany, even if they never touched a petrol bomb with their hands.
Pointing this out is not unjustified point scoring, but essential self defence of a democratic political system.
CB
The politician in question is my uncle, makes more sense....
Post edited at 15:17
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In reply to cb294:
Who decides what viewpoints are in essence suppressed? There are existing laws that cover death threats and inciting religious or racial hatred. If these laws have been broken then the perpetrators should be charged.
Who decides what viewpoints are in essence suppressed? There are existing laws that cover death threats and inciting religious or racial hatred. If these laws have been broken then the perpetrators should be charged.
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In reply to Ridge:
No, not suppression of viewpoints (direct support for the IS and the like excepted). However, any politician describing refugees arriving on Germany as a deluge or flood, against which "something must be done" must not be allowed to wash his hands of the arson attacks that follow (pick your example from the UK referendum campaigns, exactly the same patterns emerge).
Calling people out for their dog whistling and their deliberate crossing of boundaries (usually followed by some insincere apology once the damage is done) is very much NOT cheap political point scoring, but essential if we want our democratic systems to survive. The radicalization of both ends of the political spectrum during the Weimar republic should be warning enough.
Yes you may argue for a return to closed borders, but civilized society should not tolerate indirect inciting of violence in the same way it already bans any direct threats.
CB
No, not suppression of viewpoints (direct support for the IS and the like excepted). However, any politician describing refugees arriving on Germany as a deluge or flood, against which "something must be done" must not be allowed to wash his hands of the arson attacks that follow (pick your example from the UK referendum campaigns, exactly the same patterns emerge).
Calling people out for their dog whistling and their deliberate crossing of boundaries (usually followed by some insincere apology once the damage is done) is very much NOT cheap political point scoring, but essential if we want our democratic systems to survive. The radicalization of both ends of the political spectrum during the Weimar republic should be warning enough.
Yes you may argue for a return to closed borders, but civilized society should not tolerate indirect inciting of violence in the same way it already bans any direct threats.
CB
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In reply to cb294:
How would you define indirect incitement though? Not necessarily disagreeing, but you'd end up with a very vague and unworkable, (and easily abused) law.
It'd be like convicting someone of burglary without a evidence on the basis that 'we all know he did it'.
How would you define indirect incitement though? Not necessarily disagreeing, but you'd end up with a very vague and unworkable, (and easily abused) law.
It'd be like convicting someone of burglary without a evidence on the basis that 'we all know he did it'.
In reply to cb294:
Cheers for the edit - makes a lot more sense now! Really sorry to hear about that, must have been a very unpleasant experience.
Cheers for the edit - makes a lot more sense now! Really sorry to hear about that, must have been a very unpleasant experience.
In reply to cb294:
Have you ever seen Barack Obamas entourage on a state visit? I have personally seen the security measures taken at Davos. This is coming to us all unfortunately, just like old fashioned punch ups, turned to stabbings, turned to shootings....
On a side note...I read yesterday that one gun shop in the USA has sold 30,000 AR15 assault rifles SINCE the Orlando shootings. 30,000!!!! sold in less than 10 days!! (apols for the exclamation marks but wtf is all that about?)
Have you ever seen Barack Obamas entourage on a state visit? I have personally seen the security measures taken at Davos. This is coming to us all unfortunately, just like old fashioned punch ups, turned to stabbings, turned to shootings....
On a side note...I read yesterday that one gun shop in the USA has sold 30,000 AR15 assault rifles SINCE the Orlando shootings. 30,000!!!! sold in less than 10 days!! (apols for the exclamation marks but wtf is all that about?)
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In reply to sebastien:
And since when was that an appropriate response to repeated spamming?
> Not that it justifies death threats! But the title could also have been "Yvette Cooper receives death threats against her children over repetitive spamming"...
And since when was that an appropriate response to repeated spamming?
In reply to tony:
It isn't. Looking at the tweet it looks more like a very crass and unthinking 'joke', rather than a serious threat. However, as CB has pointed out, there is clearly a real threat.
> And since when was that an appropriate response to repeated spamming?
It isn't. Looking at the tweet it looks more like a very crass and unthinking 'joke', rather than a serious threat. However, as CB has pointed out, there is clearly a real threat.
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
Where did you read that? 30,000? I just don't believe it.
So 1 in every 100 people in a large city of 3M (which would likely have multiple gun shops) has decided the right response to a mass killing described as terrorism is to go out and buy the same weapon that is expensive and basically useless to any sane person?
Also who the hell outside of a state armory stocks 30k assault rifles?
jk
> On a side note...I read yesterday that one gun shop in the USA has sold 30,000 AR15 assault rifles SINCE the Orlando shootings. 30,000!!!! sold in less than 10 days!! (apols for the exclamation marks but wtf is all that about?)
Where did you read that? 30,000? I just don't believe it.
So 1 in every 100 people in a large city of 3M (which would likely have multiple gun shops) has decided the right response to a mass killing described as terrorism is to go out and buy the same weapon that is expensive and basically useless to any sane person?
Also who the hell outside of a state armory stocks 30k assault rifles?
jk
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In reply to jkarran:
The most recent estimate was that there are 3.5 million AR15 style assault rifles in circulation in the US.
The most recent estimate was that there are 3.5 million AR15 style assault rifles in circulation in the US.
In reply to galpinos:
And how many gun stores? 15k apparently, I looked. If each of them did only 1% as well as the one in the story over the last 10 days that 3.5M figure has doubled basically overnight having taken what, 30 odd years (depending upon the strict definition of 'AR15 style') to get where it is.
Unless the store is basically the only one listing the item nationwide the numbers just don't stack up.
jk
> The most recent estimate was that there are 3.5 million AR15 style assault rifles in circulation in the US.
And how many gun stores? 15k apparently, I looked. If each of them did only 1% as well as the one in the story over the last 10 days that 3.5M figure has doubled basically overnight having taken what, 30 odd years (depending upon the strict definition of 'AR15 style') to get where it is.
Unless the store is basically the only one listing the item nationwide the numbers just don't stack up.
jk
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In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
I'm sure they do get spikes in sales whenever gun control inches up the agenda for a few days but that plain and simple smacks of someone bullshitting to advertise their business for free to me. I'm surprised the Indy ran it.
jk
I'm sure they do get spikes in sales whenever gun control inches up the agenda for a few days but that plain and simple smacks of someone bullshitting to advertise their business for free to me. I'm surprised the Indy ran it.
jk
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In reply to jkarran:
Bullshitting to get clicks is the Indy's stock-in-trade these days. I'm not surprised at all, although I am a little sad for what used to be a good paper.
Bullshitting to get clicks is the Indy's stock-in-trade these days. I'm not surprised at all, although I am a little sad for what used to be a good paper.
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In reply to jkarran:
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/american-gun-shop-sells-30000-ar...
Note an inventory of 300k-400k. That's a f*ck of a lot of guns.
> And how many gun stores? 15k apparently, I looked. If each of them did only 1% as well as the one in the story over the last 10 days that 3.5M figure has doubled basically overnight having taken what, 30 odd years (depending upon the strict definition of 'AR15 style') to get where it is.
> Unless the store is basically the only one listing the item nationwide the numbers just don't stack up.
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/american-gun-shop-sells-30000-ar...
Note an inventory of 300k-400k. That's a f*ck of a lot of guns.
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In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
Maybe the Gay Community, are sick of being targeted, and just decided to get 'Tooled Up' too.
(doesn't look so 'scary' in pink, somehow?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BigFatDave/status/742027183879819264
Maybe the Gay Community, are sick of being targeted, and just decided to get 'Tooled Up' too.
(doesn't look so 'scary' in pink, somehow?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BigFatDave/status/742027183879819264
In reply to tony:
That's from the same source as the Indy's piece, one with a very obvious interest in normalising the purchase of and stoking demand for assault weapons.
jk
That's from the same source as the Indy's piece, one with a very obvious interest in normalising the purchase of and stoking demand for assault weapons.
jk
In reply to Removed User:
In fairness it's not just in the UK that this is happening.
I'm fascinated by the coverage of the attempted assassination of Trump (not a lot, due to a certain other news story that's doing the rounds). The articles I've read (Guardian) seem to regard the attacker as something of a courageous anti-hero.
In fairness it's not just in the UK that this is happening.
I'm fascinated by the coverage of the attempted assassination of Trump (not a lot, due to a certain other news story that's doing the rounds). The articles I've read (Guardian) seem to regard the attacker as something of a courageous anti-hero.
In reply to Trevers:
One man's terrorist and all that...
> In fairness it's not just in the UK that this is happening.
> I'm fascinated by the coverage of the attempted assassination of Trump (not a lot, due to a certain other news story that's doing the rounds). The articles I've read (Guardian) seem to regard the attacker as something of a courageous anti-hero.
One man's terrorist and all that...
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In reply to Trevers:
That's pretty shocking. Can you find the Guardian articles that portray the attacker as courageous?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Michael+Sandford+site:www.theguardian.com
The most positive bit I saw was the Guardian reported that his neighbours say he was a "nice guy" which is fair enough if that's what the neighbours said.
That's pretty shocking. Can you find the Guardian articles that portray the attacker as courageous?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Michael+Sandford+site:www.theguardian.com
The most positive bit I saw was the Guardian reported that his neighbours say he was a "nice guy" which is fair enough if that's what the neighbours said.
Post edited at 17:25
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In reply to elsewhere:
Pretty much what Thomas Mair's neighbours said.
> The most positive bit I saw was the Guardian reported that his neighbours say he was a "nice guy" which is fair enough if that's what the neighbours said.
Pretty much what Thomas Mair's neighbours said.
Post edited at 17:42
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In reply to tony:
This is the entire point.
> Why does any of that make it a non-story, particularly in the context of Jo Cox's murder?
This is the entire point.
In reply to Removed User:
The Independent is reporting: 'We're getting multiple reports from to Jo Cox memorial in London's Trafalgar Square suggesting a Vote Leave plane is trailing a banner overhead and "drowning out" her bereaved husband's speech.' Apparently, it's now been over about three times. It seems that Vote Leave are doing nothing whatever to conceal their essentially boorish image, and showing no concern whatever for anybody's feelings but their own.
The Independent is reporting: 'We're getting multiple reports from to Jo Cox memorial in London's Trafalgar Square suggesting a Vote Leave plane is trailing a banner overhead and "drowning out" her bereaved husband's speech.' Apparently, it's now been over about three times. It seems that Vote Leave are doing nothing whatever to conceal their essentially boorish image, and showing no concern whatever for anybody's feelings but their own.
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In reply to elsewhere:
I probably couldn't find the article now.
Let me clarify: it wasn't a specific description/portrayal per se, in the sort of unambiguous terms that tabloids might use. It was more the description of him as a "nice guy", normal down-to-earth guy, and the words from his own mouth that he believed he was going to die himself in the attempt, that aroused some level of sympathy. That's on top of my pre-existing feelings that a Trump presidency could be really bad news for the world (although I don't think assassination is the answer).
The article was neither explicitly glorifying nor vilifying the guy.
EDIT - I'm aware this post is a bit of a backpedal
I probably couldn't find the article now.
Let me clarify: it wasn't a specific description/portrayal per se, in the sort of unambiguous terms that tabloids might use. It was more the description of him as a "nice guy", normal down-to-earth guy, and the words from his own mouth that he believed he was going to die himself in the attempt, that aroused some level of sympathy. That's on top of my pre-existing feelings that a Trump presidency could be really bad news for the world (although I don't think assassination is the answer).
The article was neither explicitly glorifying nor vilifying the guy.
EDIT - I'm aware this post is a bit of a backpedal
Post edited at 17:51
In reply to Removed User:
Isn't growing a thick skin something you do when someone calls you a wanker, when someone threatens your family that's no longer an option.
Isn't growing a thick skin something you do when someone calls you a wanker, when someone threatens your family that's no longer an option.
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In reply to Removed User:
I think I might get a bit fed up if I received five unsolicited emails. I probably wouldn't issue death threats, but my response would be fairly robust, I think.
I haven't received any email communications regarding the referendum, and very few flyers through the door (all of which will have gone straight to the recycling pile, like all non-addressed junk mail).
I think I might get a bit fed up if I received five unsolicited emails. I probably wouldn't issue death threats, but my response would be fairly robust, I think.
I haven't received any email communications regarding the referendum, and very few flyers through the door (all of which will have gone straight to the recycling pile, like all non-addressed junk mail).
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
If that's true it lowers the already subterranean bar even further. Jesus wept.
If that's true it lowers the already subterranean bar even further. Jesus wept.
In reply to Ridge:
I am not talking about a law, more about how to deal with closet racists in political campaigns. It is important to make clear that pushing the boundaries has consequences. Become a councellor for a racist party? --> Social death! Why talk to them , just talk about them. Kick them out form the football club, stop buying at their shops, disinvite them from any local events. It must be reiterated again and again that the rest of society simply despises racists (and their semi-reputable cheerleaders), and they must not be allowed to get away with presenting their toxic views as m
CB
I am not talking about a law, more about how to deal with closet racists in political campaigns. It is important to make clear that pushing the boundaries has consequences. Become a councellor for a racist party? --> Social death! Why talk to them , just talk about them. Kick them out form the football club, stop buying at their shops, disinvite them from any local events. It must be reiterated again and again that the rest of society simply despises racists (and their semi-reputable cheerleaders), and they must not be allowed to get away with presenting their toxic views as m
CB
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