UKC

I am getting depressing echos of the last Iraq War. The country has rushed headlong into a monumental decision without any plan or strategy as to what to do now. The main difference being that this time the decision has been made by a politically and economically naive public rather than by a lying Prime Minister.

In reply to Trangia:

The similarities with the Iraq debacle are far too depressingly obvious. That too was supported by the right-wing press and a large part of the population. I too felt hopeful at that time the massive mobilisation of motivated, educated and mainly young people to highlight out the obvious folly and blatant lying that was dragging us into disaster would have an effect.

I worked my socks off campaigning for Stop the War and Remain and it feels like another kick in the stomach.

In reply to Peter Metcalfe:
The outlook gets more depressing by the hour. I wonder how many of the Leave campaign are beginning to realise just what a potentially economic disaster and political nightmare they have set in motion?

In reply to Trangia:

FFS you lost, get over it. the world is still turning and the sky hasn't fallen in. We might be a little bit worse off and we might be a little bit better off and over time we might be a bit of both. We aren't going to become a failed state or a fascist dictatorship. Go climbing this weekend, the crags are still there as well.

In reply to Trangia:

I started coming up with potential post-referendum scenarios named after films but shelved it thinking we were going to win. So, we have:

"Blair Witch Project": a lot of blundering around in the dark followed by "I'm so sorry!". What happens next? Who knows, but it doesn't look nice.

"Reservoir Dogs". Mexican standoff develops between EU and UK as UK repeatedly tries to get a favourable trade deal that doesn't involve free movement and large contributions to EU budget, and is repeatedly told to get stuffed. The UK's economy bleeds to death on the floor.

"Deliverance". US forces a Britain newly out of the EU into TTIP on steroids and the shattered country becomes an American client state off Europe. "Squeal little piggy!"

"Whoops Apocalypse". Trump wins the presidency, as for Deliverance, but drags the UK into a pissing contest with Vladimir Putin. Boom!

Anyone got any others?

In reply to Trangia:


The outlook will keep getting more depressing as long as people persist in painting it that way.

I voted remain and I'm hugely disappointed by the result but it's time to move on. We need roll up our sleeves, forget the bitter "told you so" sniping and seek out and develop the best opportunities that we can find.

In reply to Peter Metcalfe:







Can't you come up with any positive ones!

In reply to timjones:


I was going to suggest "much ado about nothing"

But I fear that it won't be!

I fully agree with you Tim, time to keep calm and drink tea.
Interesting times ahead for the Farming community, and academia.

In reply to pec:


I wish I could, but with a recovering broken rib (climbing incident), I am not climbing at the moment, which is probably why I'm so grumpy

In reply to timjones:

Have you got any? Here's another one:

"V for Vendetta". Scotland and NI leave UK. rUK closes its borders and, seeking a strong leader during the unfolding crisis, elects a quasi-facist government who enforces its rule by "finger men" recruited from the ranks of the newly-unemployed. "England Prevails!"

In reply to Trangia:
Oh look! Another thread!


Should probably rename this forum "UK Politics, everyone start a thread for their own ego boost"


Christ. It's happened. Would everyone stop bloody whinging.


And take note that even with a Leave vote victorious, the EU still hasn't said "ok, you guys weren't happy, let's reform".

In reply to Dr.S at work:





I agree times will be very interesting and I'm deeply uneasy about the future but we won't achieve anything by looking back and bickering.

I astounded to see people trying to create division within the UK based on polls that were taken on Thursday by pollsters that have once again been proven to have got it wrong.

In reply to Trangia:

Quite a few of them is my guess. Apart from Nigel they have all gone very quiet. Boris looked horrified yesterday morning. Confirms my suspicion that he wanted Remain to win by a slight margin so that he could use it as a tool to weaken the PM and position himself as the obvious successor. Now, however, it looks as though things have gone so badly wrong that he may as well be given a revolver and a bottle of whisky by the party and told to do the right thing. Along with DC of course.

In reply to Peter Metcalfe:


Sorry I'm rather more focused on trying to work out what the future will hold for my industry will be and how to make the most of it.

If you must play film title games it would be just as easy to dream up positive scenarios.

In reply to pec:


Indications are we are already worse off and there is now a chance the UK will fail ie split. It's clear that the political elite on the leave side didn't expect to win, and there was never any agreement on what their post brexit strategy would be.

Whatever the solution to this, Remain campaigners and voters will have to be part of it, so it might be a good idea to let them get things off their chest.

Pragmatically, if we are going to negotiate a status that doesn't sink the economy, some of the promises made to Leave voter will have to be compromised. Politicians and the public now have to work out which of those can be compromised whilst still honouring the result of the referendum.

In reply to Mike Stretford:


If they hadn't spent the last 4 months spewing bile over anyone who had the audacity to disagree with them then I'd be a bit more sympathetic to that argument.
Indeed on the morning of the results I was in a mood to be magnanimous in victory . . . . . . until I heard them continuing to spew thier bile rather than take a step back and examine why their attitude might have been part of the problem, but sadly no such introspection. So f*ck them, I'm going to gloat.
Normal service will be resumed when they stop throwing their toys out of the pram.

In reply to timjones:


Fantasia?
A Midsummer Night's Dream?

It seems that a cross between scenarios 1 and 2 is likely. It's already starting to dawn on people that this has been a really, really big mistake (Blair Witch). The Mexican stand-off that's developing (Reservoir Dogs) is actually between Sturgeon, McGuiness and the Brit Govt. If we pull the pin on Article 50 then we lose Scotland, Gibraltar and probably NI too - what a victory eh!

In many ways this was the worst possible result for the Leave camp - a win, but not one that could be called a mandate, even according to their own criteria, but one they've got to take some kind of action upon. A resounding Remain vote in Scotland, NI and most of the big metropolitan centres.

My guess is that Article 50 is going to sit on the shelf for a very long time, possibly forever, a MAD device that no-one wants to set off. Boris is toast and we get a Remain Tory leader (Teresa May is one possibility) and a media narrative that changes from "Rule Britannia, into a glorious independent future" to "we were lied to, let's crucify the barstewards". I hope so - and that we don't see reprisals against immigrants when it becomes clear that we're not going through with it.

Am I being too optimistic?

In reply to timjones:

Here you go: https://johnroberts.me/business/2016/06/8-reasons-positive-about-eu-referen...

In reply to timjones:

There is no UK to divide. England has made its choice and has voted to leave both what was the UK and the EU. Scotland has made a very different choice by a thumping majority and will stay part of the EU.

In reply to alastairmac:


Wherever we are headed it's a silly and dangerous game to use questionable stats to promote artificial divisions based on age, bank balance or any other criteria.

As for Scotland I had reservations about the wisdom of reporting the results of a UK wide referendum on a regional basis. At present I'm starting to suspect that I may have been correct

In reply to pec:



If you stop, maybe they will?

Back to my point... what was your main reason for voting leave? Boris is already talking about a fudge in which nothing much changes, would you be happy with that? What are your red lines?

In reply to timjones:

Last night on Question Time Salmond said that Sturgeon had proposed to Cameron that the result would only count if each country in the UK voted to leave. Seems odd that he didn't take it.

Further evidence that he thought a remain vote was in the bag and wanted to score maximum political capital out of making an exit vote as easy to achieve as possible while still winning.

In reply to pec:




The only thing those who voted leave have achieved, is to get rid of the dog shit on their shoes, by smearing it on their faces.

The vast majority of people who have voted leave, are going to be the first ones to suffer from the economic consequences which will follow over the next couple of years or more.

It may be a victory, but it's a pyrrhic victory.