UKC

Putting aside the UK / EU discussion for a moment and looking solely at the rest of the EU. Are we not seeing a re-configuration within the rest of the EU- a battle now between the real politics of Merkel and the idealism of Junker?

"The game seems to be on "between them.

Discuss

{This could condition timing and nature of UK/EU negotiations}

In reply to MargieB:

It strikes me that the heads of state and the heads of the EU will have different points of view over this.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

A hasty disorderly exit is in no one's interest.
Junker is not acting as the voice of reason whereas Merkel is. I see the French Government have told the Mayor of Calais to suck it up regarding the UK border checks on French soil.

In reply to Gone for good:

That's good, but when leaving happens, then the whole crock of Sh*t on Callais shores will end up here. Then immigration will be a problem!

In reply to veteye:

I don't disagree. It's important at this stage for stability and normality to prevail in day to day life.
On that note where have Cameron and Osborne disappeared to? And Boris come to that.

In reply to Gone for good:



I think that's how it will be. The divorces are rarely rational affairs, and we're divorcing from the EU, so we can expect Junker to bring a bit of rancour to the table.

In reply to Gone for good:



Where is anybody?

In reply to Yanis Nayu:


We know the shadow cabinet are in the armoury sharpening their knives.

In reply to Gone for good:

Great reply.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:
They had numerous chances to reform. They didn't. They got threatened with a referendum, from numerous countries. And then the people chose to leave.

So Junckers can suck a big bag of phallas'.

In reply to Bootrock:

Can't disagree with that. The EU hierarchy take a large proportion of the blame for this.

In reply to veteye:


I agree the UK doesn't currently have an asylum problem. More people have arrived in most other European countries in a month, than manage to get to the UK in a year. If the UK had a sudden influx of say 1/2million refugees, it might start to look at Blair and others bit more closely that triggered many of the problems in the first place. Or people might try to fix the initial problems in North Africa/ME, rather than simply look at the consequences.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:


Merkel will hopeful put him back in his box and remind him who gave him the job in the first place.

In reply to summo:


Indeed.

In reply to veteye:


I hope the French pull the plug on the British immigration presence in Calais immediately. The faster the Brexiter's see they have done nothing to solve the immigration problem the more likely they'll change their mind before a general election in the autumn and with a bit of luck the Article 50 letter will never be sent.

If the EU were smart they'd also send some high ranking official to get their picture taken talking to Nicola Sturgeon.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:


So you are joining the crowd who are prepared to damage Britain's interests to make a point, joining those commentators who are still prophesising doom and gloom , and talking the economy down and making the negotiations harder than it needs to be. Not very smart thing from the smart people , if you think about it.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Meanwhile in Italy.

youtube.com/watch?v=2Futxf1U2f8&

In reply to Jim C:

Tom is making a constructive proposal to limit the damage to Britain and Britain's interests.

In reply to Bootrock:

Hope he's right.

In reply to Bootrock:

You almost feel that clip is dubbed, like hitler and the Kinder Downfall. He's really saying "British Bastards".

In reply to Bootrock:

Certainly interesting. Typical Italian-doesn't leave a gap in his speech.

In reply to John Stainforth:

I do wonder how many on here would honestly agree with that .

I have read it again and again, and I'm struggling to see the positive for Britain in that happening, after all that is why we made the agreement in the first place.

In reply to Jim C:


We are better off seeing the downsides of leaving the EU before we are committed to doing so than after it is too late.

There is no way the French are going to leave British immigration in Calais after Brexit, they already said as much. Why should they? Better the Brexiters see the effect before the Article 50 letter is sent.

In reply to David Riley:

What is it with people who throw a fit because people don't hold the same opinion as you.

It's as bad as the SNP cult when Scotland voted to remain in the UK. Throw your toys out the pram and proclaim there's cheating, or demand another one, or whatever other BS excuse.

The people have spoken. A LOT of people are pissed off. A lot of people aren't happy. Even remain voters were saying it wasn't perfect and to "stay in and try and reform".

The EU didn't want to reform. It won't reform. We made threats. They didn't reform. Other countries made threats of a referendum, no reform. We took a vote, and the people spoke up. Still no reform.
The EU hierarchy havent stood down. The behemoth will not be moved.

But like they say:

‘If it’s a Yes we will say “on we go”, and if it’s a No we will say “we continue”.’
Jean-Claude Juncker.

“They must go on voting until they get it right.”
Jose Manuel Barroso

That's if we even get a second referendum. The EU has ignored the will of the people before.


If the EU offered a reform or made an effort to listen to the very people it "serves", then this outcome may well have been a lot different.

In reply to Bootrock:

Completely agree.

In reply to David Riley:

Not sure why I clicked that to reply to yours, this layout isn't the best.

In reply to Bootrock:

I made it about half way through and still didn't hear anything other than the kind of fantasy thinking we heard so much about before the referendum. Britain now free to trade outside the EU? Well I never.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:



Jinx refusing to understand any post..

It was quite clear what you meant.

Jim seems to be of the view that the rest of the EU should be nice and take major economic hits just to keep the UK happy.

We've seen how Greece were screwed. These countries are going to want their pound of flesh ad the UK exits. Jim can call that negative, that's just the reality. We live in a competitive world. The EUnwilll want us to be fairly successful, but certainly less so than we are now.

In reply to Bootrock:

It's not about the EU ignoring the will of the people, it's the UK government. It looks like the torts are currently bunking down wondering what the f*ck to do next.

In reply to Bootrock:

More drivel Bootrock , who ( with half a brain) would believe any of that, we are doomed and we should just bend over and take what is coming to us for our stupidity.

In reply to Bootrock:


They are less than mature?

"I was struck by how many people said to me that they didn't like the scaremongering tactics. They didn't like to be told that if they were to vote to leave they would be idiots. "If you say to someone 'you're an idiot if you don't agree with me' then you're not likely to bring them in your direction," he said.

Former Bank of England governor Lord King:

In reply to Roadrunner5:


Greece was screwed because its a costly liability that won't go away.
If they really insist on having their pound of flesh they probably can but half of it will be their flesh. They need us as much as we need them, note that european stock markets have fallen by more than UK markets.
Juncker and the EU may want to punish us because we've spoilt their master plan but the national leaders want their companies to sell us things so after making the right noises they'll be pragmatic and a reasonable compromise will be found. Ultimately Germany keeps the EU afloat (even more so once we've left) and Merkel is already sounding conciliatory and she's got German business leaders breathing down her neck wanting free trade to continue.

In reply to pec:

The Vice President of the Commission on news night just now was sounding deeply sensible and avoided any juncker style bombast. Let's hope the whole angry phase passes and calm discusson can begin.

There is a lot to be said for the EU losing its awkward squad from an EU perspective.

In reply to MargieB: If I pan a few newspaper websites then I see the discussion re. Juncker, conflict on the Daily Mail, Daily Express and that's about it. Not on too many of the European papers, so I would guess the editors of those fine publications are continuing to spin the positives of taking the country back

CNN I see do a large piece re. Boris back pedalling. Others have moved onto the football and the obvious jokes,

I think the UK will get a fair deal. Whether the UK thinks that's a fair deal is another thing altogether, and so far every proposal from Boris has been shot down so maybe someone else should come up with some ideas. No single market without free movement labour, no informal talks and so on. Time to be serious.

In reply to Jim C:

They're not prophesising any more tho, just looking at the world aroud them.

The economic damage is begining to be done (and yes there was always going to be volatility but this has shocked even the most the concerned), the social discord has started (remainers not accepting it, reports of intolerance and hate crime) and any benefits look further and further away than before.

In reply to Jim C:

Make a point now, or muddle on, make do and mend for how ever many years? I'm for the former.