UKC Forums - A new start?

A new start?

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Big Ger 30 Jun 2016

Could this be the best news yet for British politics.

With both main parties in chaos, could a new multi-party democracy and parliament emerge?

Greens
Corbynite Labour
Blairite Labour
Lib Dem
Remain Tory
Leave Tory
UKIP

Sorry, will not be around for a day or so to respond, off to a symposium on "managing aggression" believe it or not!

EddInaBox 30 Jun 2016

In reply to BoJo Ger:

> Sorry, will not be around for a day or so to respond

'Nuff said.

OP Big Ger 30 Jun 2016

In reply to EddInaBox:

> 'Nuff said.

Jackwd 30 Jun 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

Are you Boris Johnson?

OP Big Ger 30 Jun 2016

In reply to Jackwd:

I used to be, but now I'm Winston Churchill.

KevinD 30 Jun 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

Unlikely without electoral reform. Even in chaos it would be hard for others to get a proper look in.

veteye 30 Jun 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

> Greens

> Corbynite Labour

> Blairite Labour

> Lib Dem

> Remain Tory

> Leave Tory

> UKIP

You missed out

Scottish Labour

SNP

OP Big Ger 30 Jun 2016

In reply to veteye:

Apologies, also forgot Plaid Cymru!!

winhill 01 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

> Sorry, will not be around for a day or so to respond, off to a symposium on "managing aggression" believe it or not!

Presumably a deal made with the judge to avoid a prison sentence?

OP Big Ger 01 Jul 2016

In reply to winhill:

Not exactly.

But seeing the amount of aggression in UK politics at the moment, perhaps my presentation could earn me a few bob over there.

womblingfree 01 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

Only with a move to PR

MargieB 01 Jul 2016

In reply to KevinD:

And that should be high on the agenda of most political parties with an interest in proper representation as a compensatory move to offset those , say, green and social justice values that formerly came to us from the EU. In some ways the EU compensated for our constitutional fault-lines. No Eu but now reform the constitution.I predict, if Corbyn stays, this will be the main thrust of his manifesto and of other parties as well if they have half a brain. General election is due within the year......This could be the most interesting one yet.

OP Big Ger 06 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

Interesting!

> One of Labour’s biggest individual donors has offered rebels millions of pounds to defect and create a new movement over fears the party can never recover from Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership. Dr Assem Allam, who has given more than £500,000 to Labour, told The Telegraph that the party had become a “joke” under Mr Corbyn and can no longer provide “strong opposition”. The businessman and owner of Hull City football club said he is ready to fund a “Gang of Four” style defection, a reference to when senior Labour figures dramatically quit the party to create the Social Democratic Party (SDP) in 1981.

Timmd 06 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

That's very interesting.

MG 06 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

It think it would need
a) An agreement within those parties to not compete with each other in most constituencies
b) A clear form of PR that they would implement. The Scottish hydrid system has a lot going for it.
c) Agreement to hold a second election (where they would compete with each other) within six months (maybe days!) after the PR system was in place.

rallymania 06 Jul 2016

In reply to MG:

but only 5 years ago we were asked to vote on alternative voting options and the referendum result was to maintain the status quo

MonkeyPuzzle 06 Jul 2016

In reply to rallymania:
Because no one has ever campaigned for AV. The Lib Dems had campaigned for PR, but the Tories wouldn't allow them to have a referendum on it.

Post edited at 13:27

The New NickB 06 Jul 2016

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

PR is an umbrella term for a number of electoral systems, of which AV is only one.

MonkeyPuzzle 06 Jul 2016

In reply to The New NickB:

So it is - something new every day. I don't see how AV would bring about an improvement for those parties who receive a sizeable vote nationally, but spread thinly through the country, i.e. UKIP, Greens.

KevinD 06 Jul 2016

In reply to The New NickB:

> PR is an umbrella term for a number of electoral systems, of which AV is only one.

It all gets rather messy but generally AV doesnt get classified as PR.
Unless you are talking about AV+ which wasnt in play.

All AV does is reallocate votes once someone has been ruled out.

The New NickB 06 Jul 2016

In reply to KevinD:

Making it more proportional

rallymania 06 Jul 2016

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Sorry if it wasn't clear, I meant alternative voting systems as in alternatives to FPTP, not specifically AV.

the system we have in Scotland as has already been mentioned, was meant to only ever produce coalition governments, the fact that in the previous term one party (the SNP) had an actual majority should just be an occasional blip.

Bulls Crack 06 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

Blairite Labour unlikely to be a vote winner after today.

OP Big Ger 07 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

Another point of interest;

> Brexit is starting to deliver. British politics was constipated and has now overdosed on laxative. It is experiencing a great evacuation. It has got rid of a prime minister and is about to get rid of a leader of the opposition. It will soon be rid of a chancellor of the exchequer and a lord chancellor. It is also rid of two, if not four, Tory heirs apparent. Across the spectrum the left is on the brink of upheaval and perhaps historic realignment, if only the Liberal Democrats have the guts to engineer it. The Greens and Ukip have both lost their leaders. An entire political class is on the way out. As Oscar Wilde said of the death of Little Nell, it would take a heart of stone not to laugh.

Tom Last 07 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

> Apologies, also forgot Plaid Cymru!!

And Mebyon Kernow, lolz.

OP Big Ger 10 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

Well, well, well, call me psychic!

> Tory and Labour MPs have held informal discussions about establishing a new political party in the event of Andrea Leadsom becoming prime minister and Jeremy Corbyn staying as Labour leader, a cabinet minister has disclosed.

> Senior players in the parties have discussed founding a new centrist grouping in the mould of the Social Democratic party (SDP) should the two main parties polarise, according to the minister. Talks should be taken seriously, though they are still at an early stage, according to the source.

> “There have been talks between Labour and Tory MPs about a new party,” the minister said. “A number of my colleagues would not feel comfortable in a party led by Andrea Leadsom.”

wilkie14c 10 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

> Sorry, will not be around for a day or so to respond, off to a symposium on "managing aggression" believe it or not!

I've been on that course. Didn't f*cking work in my bastard opinion.

marsbar 11 Jul 2016

In reply to wilkie14c:

True story

Me to a kid I taught "do you think anger management might help you?"

kid "tried that. They kicked me off it."

me "why?"

kid "cause I threw a chair"

wilkie14c 11 Jul 2016

In reply to marsbar:
Lol the mind boggles!

earlsdonwhu 11 Jul 2016

In reply to Big Ger:

First he wanted to rebrand Hull City to Hull Tigers and now he's moving on to the Labour Party...... so we may get Labour Tigers versus Corbyn's Pussies.