UKC

Hi,
I'm looking to splash out on my first pair of half ropes for trad climbing. I'm on a very studenty budget and so I'm looking for cheap. I think I've narrowed it down to the Phoenix 8mm classic http://www.outside.co.uk/shop/Phoenix+8mm+CLASSIC and the Simmond 8.6mm http://www.decathlon.co.uk/double-rope-86mm-x-50m-id_8175032.html . They're similar prices (£60 and £65), which one do I go for? It seems as if the Simmond rope might be slightly more durable but is that just an illusion? Alternatively if anyone can think of anything cheaper that would be amazing!
Thanks,
Sam

In reply to mil016:

Mammut Phoenix is a great rope, quite thin, best to choose a suitable belay device such as buggette to go with it.

If your using the rope with a variety of partners and devices, it might be better to go the larger diameter option, more forgiving maybe

In reply to mil016:

I looked at the decathlon one as well, but it wasn't totally clear to me if it's a half rope or not - it says "double rope" on the description?

In reply to springfall2008:

It's got the half rope symbol on the label...

In reply to More-On:

Where did you see that on the web site, it was hard to spot?

In reply to springfall2008:

It's well hidden towards the end of the various images

In reply to mil016:

Rope longevity / abrasion resistance is directly proportional to sheath diameter. If you climb on reasonably aggressive rock then get the 8.6s, you'll go through 8s in no time at all. Besides, you've got to be really careful with thin ropes - unless you and your climbing partner use a device designed for skinny ropes you'll be in danger of not holding falls or controlling abseils.

In reply to Toerag:


This is true but........ Neither sheath thickness nor longevity of a rope have any reliable relationship to the rope diameter. You can't absolutely rely on an 8.6mm rope being more durable than an 8.0mm, particularly as under CE rules both could have been measured at 8.3mm in the lab.

Having owned and used Phoenixes and known other people that have used them I would go for Phoenix over nearly every other half rope now made.

In reply to IainWhitehouse:

We're both right - I'm right if the ropes are simply different diameter models of the same rope, but you're right in that different ropes have different properties. In my experience stiffer ropes tend to last longer than soft ones.

In reply to Toerag:

The Phoenix just didn't seem to age, no obvious fluffing, got retired because I got a very good deal on a skinny sterling rope, now looking to replace sterling, maybe with super skinny mammut twilight, mammut ropes IMO are the dogs but at diameter in question they are 'fast' in standard plates so possibly not a first rope

In reply to Toerag:


This isn't true. What determines relative abrasion resistance is the percent of rope weight in the sheath. It is possible to have a thinner rope that more abrasion resistant than a thicker rope. Have a look at http://stephdavis.co/blog/straight-from-the-mammoths-mouth-things-you-want-... .

In reply to mil016:

Thanks for all the advice! As I'm still relatively inexperienced it sounds as if the thicker rope is the answer, particularly as I'm not keen to splash out on a new belay plate any time soon.

In reply to mil016:

The Phoenixes are great ropes, very durable. Just bought my second set.

Rope diameter is less of an issue than it used to be with 8mm ropes becoming much more common as half ropes than they used to be. Most newish belay devices are rated for ropes of greater diameter than 7.5mm and will handle them fine (they should have a minimum rope diameter marked on them so check that this number is 8 or smaller) - just be a bit cautious if you are used to something thicker. I have never had a problem using my Phoenixes with any belay plate where the part where the rope comes out is v-shaped - although I wouldn't touch them with older slicker tube-devices (like my original ATC).

In reply to mil016:

If you want to go thicker, than it is very hard to beat Mammut Genesis 8.5's. Durability is tremendous; I've retired sets because they just seemed to have gotten too old, even though in terms of wear they were still fine. The 8.5's work better in belay devices and seem to tangle less than 8's in my experience. The price paid is in weight, but it is not huge: for a pair of 60m ropes, the Genesis is about 0.8 lb heavier (45 g/m vs. 42 g/m).

In reply to kathrync:

I must admit even on a normal set of half ropes I find the original ATC a bit too slippy. The DMM Bug is great, I'd recommend it.

In reply to springfall2008:


Yeah, my ATC is purely for big fat indoor ropes only nowadays. Have a Reversino and a shiny new DMM Pivot for outdoor use. The Pivot works for everything from singles to the Phoenixes and I mostly carry the Reversino as a backup or when I really want to keep the weight down. For trad I always carry something with a guide mode option.