UKC

Myself and the better half have a week booked off later in the season and are thinking of attempting a traverse of the Cuillin Ridge.

I believe we have the required fitness.

Mrs Volt has lead up to E2; I VS. which I believe means we've the Irving skill required.

I think our downfall is navigation skills (we have 'some'!) as the ridge sounds tricky to navigate, and experience at unroped grade 3 exposed scrambles. Exposure itself isn't an issue itself, it's more the moving on easy ground but being unroped.

Can any recommend suitable days (multiple?) out in Wales where we can practice exposed scrambling, ideally higher grade?

TIA

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1567

That should be a good start

In reply to Voltemands:
Technically you should be fine if you are leading up to E2. Presumably multi pitch?

That list is good, and go out and do them regardless of weather - that will help give you a route finding sense

You've identified your weakness - navigation, so concentrate on honing that.

The Cuillin Ridge isn't that difficult to navigate in fine weather but can become a nightmare in bad weather/cloud. There are loads of subsidiary ridges which go nowhere, and following scratch marks isn't always the best way because all you do is follow the scratch marks where your predecessors got lost!! Also the more comfortable you are moving unroped the better. Some pitching of the more technical sections like the TD Gap, In Pin etc may be necessary but don't waste time pitching stuff well within your capabiliities

Besides good fitness and stamina, the other important thing is to take lots and lots of water (and straws for sucking water out of crevices)

Good luck and enjoy. It's the finest mountaineering expedition in the UK

In reply to zimpara:

When did you do the ridge?

In reply to Offwidth:

That's my own ticklist for my own preperation.
So add something useful to the conversation or bite your f*cking tongue.

In reply to Voltemands:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1024

In reply to Voltemands:

You need to be looking at moving fast on the grade 2 / 3 ground. A good place to go to get started is the ground on the glyders out the back of the Pen-y-gwrd hotel. Practice down climbing as well going up. Most climbers aren't great at down climbing. There's plenty of short easy stuff up there to get started on. You can just go up and down the same rock for a while to get started. There's a scrambles in Snowdonia guide for picking out particular scrambles. Take the same gear you'd have on the ridge in case you decide you need a rope and a few nuts deployed mid scramble. As always take care.

In reply to Voltemands:


I'd only recommend practice routes elsewhere if you either lack a weather window for Skye or you lack technical skill or fitness. Otherwise, just get on the ridge.

In reply to Voltemands:

+1 for practicing downclimbing.

I'd say Tryfan and the Glyders would be good, there are some grade 3 Scrambles from the heather terrace. Even better if you do it both ways in a day.

The SMC Skye Scrambles guide is well worth getting.

In reply to zimpara:
Mods - can we get a new feature / button that would allow people to read the forums without seeing any vitriol from
zimpara?

In reply to planetmarshall:


Depends a bit on where you live - if North Wales is an hour away then getting plenty of big scrambly/easy climbing enchaniment days in as possible may make your chances a lot better ( I would imagine!)

In reply to Voltemands:
My advice is concentrate getting in fast mileage and plan for a lightweight day crossing . We produced some information about 15 years ago based on our success as lower grade punters, hampered from running by injury, in a period when many fitter stronger climbing pals failed. While I try and find it, Bobs stuff was the best advice we got:

http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/skye_ridge.php

http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/gear.php?p=skye_ridge_gear_tips

In reply to Voltemands:

Found our old report, written by Moff:

Cuillin Traverse Report and Tips

“Some useful info from a couple who made it but only rated their chances at 50:50 beforehand. Late 30's with 10+ years multipitch mountaineering experience mainly upto HS. Longest previous day trip Mount Whitney USA 7000ft ascent 22 mile walking round trip at altitude.

Preparation:
No running!! (not intended, but both of us had a variety of minor injuries, now I wonder if its worthwhile...)
Mountaineering trips concentrating on continuous movement over D/VD terrain with boots & rucksack. Days in the peak district climbing 15-30 routes in a session, S and below. Practice moving alpine style...familiarity... trust. No previous experience of the ridge other than scrambling on Scurr Dearg Am Basteir and Scurr Nan Gillean.
Lots of reading/sussing out (mostly Skye guide; Harvey map; Andy Hyslop and Gordon Stainforth). Much weighing & organising kit (seriously!)

Decided to take:
40m 9mm rope, 1kg rack (2 long extenders; 1 sling extender; hex 8; nuts 1,3,5,7,9; 2 long slings); 600gm down jacket for emergency warm clothing; map; compass; whistle; altimeter watch; space foil bag; penknife; one lightweight headtorch; minimal 1st aid kit (Ibruprofen taken every 6 hours to combat pain from old injuries; triangular bandage; steri-strips; cleaning swab; compeed)
then each:
alpine harness; belay plate & locking crab; lightweight boots/approach shoes; comfortable socks; comfortable underwear; two long sleeved thermals; lightweight pertex top; thick thermal trousers (power stretch); powerstretch balaclava; thinney gloves; 2 one litre bottles with measured high 5 isotronic drink powder; 4 x high 5 carbohydrate bars (slow burn, high carbohydrate).

17/6/01 forecast cold day, breezy, mostly sunny, drizzle & rain the previous day &night. Relatively dry on and off previously. No Midges!!! Almost perfect!!!!

Day before ensured good hydration and carbohrdrate loading; tried to get some protein but minimised fat; no beer!! Got up early, ate a high 5 protein recovery bar started taking pain killers. Ate breakfast. Started walking at 2:30 am from Glen Brittle up Coire Gurunda drinking 1 lire of isotonic. Filled all 4 bottles at the Loch. One with just water to drink with the energy bars. Got onto Ridge at 5:00; dumped bags walked to Garrs Bhein. Lynn slipped and nearly fell on a dodgy bypass of Scurr a Coire Bhigg (watch your step on those loose traverses!!) Started traverse at 6:00 am mostly following Andy Hyslop's running guide (except going over Sgurr a Coire Bhigg, avoiding Scurr Dubh and getting lost on the descent of Bidein). Tried to keep moving minimising breaks to a few minutes. Good progress to Scurr Banachdich (12 noon). Navigation problems on descents, tiredness & Steve's knee slowed progress thereafter. Descents of Sgurr A Mhadaidh fourth and first peaks, Bidein, An Caisteal were nastier than expected and cost a lot of time and energy. The climbing was
exposed requiring confidence but not too bad; the exception being the overhanging boulder problem onto Am Basteir (4c?) and the TD Gap is a bit of a thrutch, especially for the short. Bruach Na Frithe at 8.00pm; Nan Gillean at 9.30pm - fifteen and a half hours for the traverse. Limped down descent but speeded up again on the surprisingly good flatish path, arriving back at Sligachan at 12.15 am. Ate a High 5 protein recovery bar and rehydrated, (no booze! but only because we'd missed last orders).

What would we change??? Take 6 energy bars; knees!!!

Unused kit: down jacket; first aid kit other than pain killers; compass!; headtorch!!!

To conclude it was the most absorbing, fabulous mountaineering day of our lives so far. I think the key to our success was a mixture of luck and preparation (including keeping a very close eye on the advanced weather forecasts and deciding two days before to drive up and go for it; going as lightweight as we dare). On the day itself we were able to just concentrate on movement and the outstanding surroundings.

Time now to crack open the champagne!! Oh, one final tip from Steve - when you're soaking in the bath check your body for ticks!!! (and learn how to remove them properly if you don't want to waste the next night at your local casualty department)."

In reply to zimpara:

Ain't climbing brilliant, in a Fast Show sense!? So its no surprise when you occasionally meet climbers who's enthusuism in advice overtakes their experience in real life but rarely are they thick skinned enough to last long on a web forum like UKC... almost seems like someone is executing an elaborate joke.... but you do seem real.

In reply to Offwidth:

It's a tough one. Because I know on any other day you would have offered some good advice.

In reply to Offwidth:

Oh I see you already have made a good post. Well done. I'm taking notes

In reply to zimpara:

Would you be thinking of doing the lower-end stuff unroped? I've got my fair share of lower grade climbs under my belt.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

I was looking at that guide. I'll have to open the wallet!

In reply to routrax:

We were there a few weeks ago. Think it seems the most straight forward option to access plenty of grade 3's.

In reply to Offwidth:

Great info, thanks.

In reply to Voltemands:

Have a look at something called the Copa Cerrig. Libby Peter and some friends came up with it and there's an article about it online. Myself and a mate did it the same year I did the Cuillin Ridge. It'd make excellent preparation, and if you can do that, you're well prepared as it's probably tougher than the ridge, at least I found it tougher!

If you can't find any info about it, message me and I'll send you the route, but it's basically the 5 peaks in Snowdonia over 1000m - two in the Carnedds, one in the Glyders, the one Clogwn Y Person arete comes out onto, and Snowdon. Each by a 2-3 star route on rock (Amphitheatre Buttress, the Lech Ddu spur, Central Arete on Glyder Fawr, Clogwyn Y Person arete, and Y Cribau). With hiking or running in between.

If you can do it in a day, you're easily fit enough for the Cuillin Ridge. Doing it over two days with a bivvy somewhere would be really good prep for the ridge.

In reply to Voltemands:
When I did it with a friend we were probably equally matched to you in terms of pure rock climbing ability i.e. one E2 leader and one VS leader.
I would say the difficulty of the ridge in good visibility and good weather is minimal and you don't need to do a lot of specific training and prep, provided you are comfortable walking and doing the odd short scramble on exposed ground. There's a lot of walking, much of it exposed, and a few pitches of VDiff. The difficulty comes when the weather throws crap at you (which it didn't for us), and when people make life harder for themselves by taking lots of stuff they don't need.

My advice would be to obtain the Rockfax download and print that off. It folds up and fits neatly in your pocket so you can pull it out and refer to it regularly. It also gives a good description of the ridge, going into more detail where necessary. In good weather, I think it would be difficult to get seriously lost, you might just take a line which wasn't the path of least resistance.

Gear-wise, take half a set of nuts (I took a couple of cams and wished I hadn't. You really don't need more than half a set - i.e. even sizes only), a handful of quickdraws, and some slings. Get the stronger rock climber of the pair of you to lead all the technical rock sections and you'll save time. There's no points on offer for mixing leads between the two of you. We used a 35m rope but didn't test whether it was long enough on the Inn Pinn descent. A 40m would be slightly better for Naismith's Route. Don't take rock shoes, wear a pair of approach shoes.

Aim for a day crossing and you won't get bogged down carrying lots of weight. Take plenty of water though (you can fill up at the last burn on the walk in). I took about 3 litres from that point and had plenty left, though I know lots of people struggle with water. For our crossing we roped up for the descent into the TD Gap, the climb out, the King's Chimney, Naismith's route, and abseiled on someone else's rope off the Inn Pinn. We soloed everything else, includig the Inn Pinn. The VS climber I mentioned isn't a hugely confident rock climber but had no problem soloing the Inn Pinn and didn't struggle with any of the other exposed bits, other than one very short abseil which he made somewhere which I downclimbed.

I think that's it. The most important thing you can do, in my eyes, is to stack the deck in your favour by doing it on a nice day.

Have fun, it's a very memorable day out.

In reply to Voltemands:


Yes, up to Vdiff for a start. But I will take it day by day. Hoping to get up there in the next few weeks.

In reply to Will Hunt:

There were loads on the ridge when we did it, we overtook nearly all of them by the In Pinn, even going at our bumbly 12 hour for the ridge pace, largely as nearly everyone else had too much kit and in the sun it was debilitatingly hot. We slowed to a snails pace at the end (as our injuries kicked in and we were getting a bit dehydrated): no-one came back past us all day. I do think prep helps unless the climbers are OK with all day efforts and especially for a one day effort keep kit to a minimum and use endurance isotonic to maximise hydration from the water you do carry.

In reply to Voltemands:
I would spend a few long days trying to tick all the scrambles in North Wales, through mega enchainments. N Face Trfyan-Glyders-Snowdon-back over the glyders etc... you'll get the leg mileage and practice locating the routes, getting your eye in for a natural line etc... Don't worry about carrying masses of weight, or running... you just need time moving up and down on rock. You can throw in the odd diff or vdiff too; parson nose, ordinary route, flying buttress etc.. to help keep you moving, but nothing that involves taking a full rack.

Take yourself to the point where fatigue kicks in a little etc... feel what it's like and that you can with concentration still focus and push on. A few days of 30km & 3000m ascent under your belt in North wales, your previous rock climbing experience and a clear day, you'll be in with a very very good chance on the ridge.

In reply to Voltemands:


I would keep your own counsel on that and be prepared to solo or to pitch. When you're stood in front of the obstacle and you can see how dry/wet/inviting/horrible it is would be the decision point.

In reply to Voltemands:

Two of the main reasons people don't succeed is lack of fitness for swift, exposed scrambling, up and down and having a problem route finding – as opposed to navigating. Particularly in (but not limited to) poor visibility. Sounds like you're sorted for the former. It will be worth you copying or photographing the description of key sections in the current SMC guidebook – this will be extremely useful. Worth a look, if you get a copy, is Gordon Stainforth's book 'The Cuillin'.

It may also be worth using a day for a recce, which will a) give you a feel for the terrain and b) allow you to stash some goodies. For example: take the West Flank of Sgurr a Ghreadaidh, leave some water and luxury food near the top, then continue across An Dorus, over the four tops of Mhadaidh, then Bidean Druim nan Ramh. It is then possible to drop down into Coir' a Tairneilear on scree from the bealach between An Caisteal and Sgurr na Bairnich. This will then lead you down to the tourist madness of the Fairy Pools path. A big(ish) day in itself, but you will then have knowledge a more complex section of the ridge.