UKC

So after being at pains to make clear the UK has voted for brexit at least partially on the basis of restricting free movement of us citizens into the UK, it's now clear that an alternative route via N.Ireland will be available

How does that work then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36885303

In reply to balmybaldwin:
What, and then swim? Or perhaps overloaded rubber dinghies? Maybe they could get the French to man the checkpoints at the ferry. That should slow things down a bit.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

"Brexit means open borders". Lol . Tell the French that. They have control of theirs, and our "nuts".

In reply to balmybaldwin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area

...If you want pre-EU.

If you want Little England let's go into lock down.

For God's sake!

In reply to balmybaldwin:

To make it clear I voted Remain, but I can't see the logic of no border and restricted movement or will there in effect be a border at the ferry to mainland uk?

In reply to Pete Pozman:

Interesting. I wasn't aware of the previous arrangements, but if that's what we go back to what's to stop say a French man going to Ireland via his EU access and then going to northern Ireland to work for example?

It just seemed a bit mismatched

p.s. I have no desire to leave the eu

In reply to balmybaldwin:


I'm afraid we have to leave logic out of it.

In reply to balmybaldwin:


It was the elephant in the room throughout the whole referendum campaign that nobody from the Leave campaign seemed to want to address. The CTA and precedent for free movement is important to a huge number of people who live in Ireland and whilst it may not be particularly logical, I suspect few from the Leave side wanted to start suggesting border controls given the potentially catastrophic impact it could have on the political stability of NI.

I still can't quite figure out why the DUP were so heavily backing the Leave campaign, I can't help but cynically suspect it wasn't for the best reasons.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


The end result will most likely be acceptance of free movement (ie open borders), with a temporary (up to 7 years?) face-saving restriction (for the brexiteers) on some immigration from the EU, in return for staying in the single market (as the City, industry, most economists and the unions want) while paying in and not having a say. All that heartache and struggle for not very much really. Logical it's not.

In reply to Aly:



Same reason the oldies voted for it in England. They got a vital political issue that will change the course of our history mixed up with the Last Night at the Proms. They saw that Union Jack fluttering in the breeze and just knew which side they were on.
They were quite willing to take the chance that The Troubles might come back and that the whole of the UK might be broken up, but they are BRITISH!
And that is what matters.

Note: only the DUP and UKIP officially backed the campaign. Now that Farage has got his country back he's over in France helping the National Front fascists get their country back. Given their history there is little doubt about which way the DUP leans, nor how far.

In reply to balmybaldwin:


That's almost certainly what the compromise/fudge will be.
jk

In reply to Pekkie:


Thats why it will not be acceptable, the 7 year brake, is the fudge that they could have offered to Cameron before the vote and he might have got the vote through with that, but of course us Brexiters had already predicted that the EU would try and offer more concessions to stop us leaving
( obviously you don't have to be clever to know that would happen)

In reply to jkarran:


It is hard to see how that would be effective. An organised (or even ad hoc) attempt to avoid immigration controls would just see immigrants avoiding the ferry ports. There is no requirement for a customs & immigration report for a vessel arriving in a UK port from another UK port, and there is no requirement for masters/ owners to check the immigration status of passengers for a passage within the UK.

Without a major rewriting of NI's political status, then random searches of vessels could do nothing apart from picking up a few individuals. It would potentially be very lucrative (and risk free) enterprise for small boat owners running 'daytrips' to Scotland. A formal, legislatively defined border between NI and the rest of the UK would be unthinkable politically.

In reply to Jim C:

It still has a long way to GO, barely even started. Noticeable that Liam Fox and David Davies very quiet at the moment.

All those 800 Uk laws which have to be changed... bit of a planning headache for any govt.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

You know that Ireland isn't in Schengen, right?

In reply to balmybaldwin:

What people are forgetting is the very clear message Brexit has given to potential migrants from the EU. 10% of students on the EU Erasmus project who were coming on exchange to the UK have already cancelled for fear of xenophobic attacks and a general feeling of being unwelcome. So Brexit is working already.
To think a Polish plumber is going to be frigged about smuggling himself into England through the NI porous border is bonkers. The UK has, overnight, become a really unattractive country.
Non-EU refugees on the other hand will do anything to get away from the misery they have been enduring. And they are not covered by Brexit at all.

In reply to climbwhenready:

Yes, same as the UK - I'm not sure how that changes anything. French, Romanian nationals etc will still be able to enter Ireland freely and move on to NI if there's no border.

In reply to balmybaldwin:


Why would they bother. They'd get on Ryanair or Easyjet to whichever city they wanted to work in and tell immigration they were on holiday.

In reply to Pete Pozman:

It still means that 90% of students are coming.If it was the other way round, perhaps you have a point.

In reply to balmybaldwin:


Ferries coming to St. Petersburg from Germany are put into fenced port and everyone has to clear at customs to leave it. Not a big deal, usually takes under 10 hours.

In reply to Jim C:


Those would be the significant concessions we weren't and haven't since been offered, right?

We're not going to be offered concessions to stay, we'll cut our exit deal then my bet is parliament will get to vote on take it or leave it and decide to remain. My bet is we'll get a poor deal, very similar to what we have now but without being an EU member with voting rights but parliament, under growing economic pressure and unwilling to defy the electorate (who won't be asked whether this is the brexit they wanted because the answer will be a resounding no from both camps) parliament will vote overwhelmingly to take it anyway.
jk

In reply to neilh:


But isn't it good news about the 10%?

In reply to Pete Pozman:

I suspect that there are probably similar % Erasmus students who will not be going to France at the moment for different reasons.

I think you are overblowing the " its not a good place to come following Brexit" argument.

Afer the vote I was at Durham Uni with my daughter for an open day. in the morning we went to a session on Maths - Brexit barely got a mention- not worth worrying about in other words.. In the afternoon - languages ( she cannot decide what to do) - it was as though the whole world had caved in for that dept.

In reply to Pete Pozman:


Just querying your 10% figure.
Are you referring to one university (Aberystwyth) or is that across the whole Erasmus programme?

See 5th paragraph from the bottom of this ...
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/23/erasmus-scheme-exclude-br...

In reply to Lusk:

I read that article and, you know what, I can't remember where I got the 10% from. I think it was on the radio. Maybe I'm wrong.

This quote makes a collaborative point though.

“Over 100 European students have withdrawn their applications to us at this point, 50 by the end of Friday on Brexit day. That’s a stunning impact on our finances.”
I think that is Aber alone.

In reply to Pete Pozman:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/c179cb10-53f3-11e6-9664-e...

In reply to RomTheBear:
So is this a a survey that says that applications from outside the UK might not come, not actually applications are down 10% .

In reply to balmybaldwin:


Surely we have the same issue at the moment with non-EU migrants. What's to stop, say, an Indian man with a visa to work in Ireland from going to Northern Ireland to work? Well, he can cross the border easy enough but his visa won't be valid for working in the UK.

The same would apply to your hypothetical French man, should the UK require the French to have working visas, his automatic right to work in Ireland wouldn't apply to the UK.

I too would rather none of this happens. I think we'll end up with free-ish movement, with a couple of concessions.

In reply to Jim C:

Well yes, have I claimed otherwise ?

In reply to Pekkie:

I think you are way too optimistic.

It seems to be there is sort of calm denial amongst the remainers. May is not daft, there will be some sort of fudge. The logic is there to be seen. It has been ever thus in our life times and our opinions are based on our experience.

This time I believe it is different. Nobody is factoring in the Law of Unforseen Consequences. Brexit is massive and so will be the consequences. Logic will not be how the outcome is decided.

Nobody knows how it will play out.

In reply to knthrak1982:



The problem is really going to be for the many Irish/NI workers who are residing in one country and working in the other.
Surely they'll have to apply and qualify for work visas or some form of work permits, and most of them won't qualify unless work visas are significantly relaxed and made cheaper on both sides (very unlikely).