UKC

Are Honours an outmoded idea?

Why should someone be given a knighthood or medal for simply doing their job, be it as a political party activist, owner of a department store, banker, friend of the Prime Minister or whatever?

If it is going to be retained, then shouldn't it be for doing something over and above the normal such as in the Voluntary sector eg Mountain Rescue Service, Lifeboat crewman etc?

In reply to Trangia:

Looks like a cess pit to me. Haven't all this lot been paid very well for what they do? If they want to be in government they should stand for in a general election.

In reply to Trangia:



Because dahhling, when you're SamCam's stylist, it's like such an important job, and like literally the whole country should be so totes grateful for what you've done to make sure SamCam's just ever-so tiptop, and like when you've spend a whole day working out the best hat to wear, I mean you totally deserve an OBE:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/31/tory-mps-accuse-david-cameron-of...

It's a f*cking disgrace.

In reply to Trangia:

There's no reason it can't go to people who do their job well, at the pinnacle of their field, whether it be for free, as an academic or civil servant, or in the private sector. It's more the notion that a lot of these have done only what they're paid for. Knighthood for foreign minister - what great triumph in foreign relations has he delivered? The defence minister??

In reply to Philip:

Surely some fields are just too inconsequential/ small scale to warrant an award in this way?
Personally I think honours should be given for undertakings which contribute to human advancement, mitigate the damage caused by our presence and for certain courageous acts. Acting as a secretary with a good dress sense does not fall into any of these.

In reply to Trangia:

Removing the PMs patronage would solve the problem. I don't see why a politician shouldn't be rewarded for doing things well, or dedicated service, but the PM isn't a neutral judge.

In reply to Trangia:


Yes


As a reward for their donations, or to ensure they keep quiet - didn't work with Lord Ashcroft but you wonder how many other such stories are suppressed


No, the 5% of worthy recipients are merely there to distract from the sleazy nature of the rest.

In reply to Trangia:
Traditionally, a knighthood or other honour has been a reward for public servants whose exceptional talents, and achievements for the public good, could have been far better rewarded by a career in the City or in industry. The honour being some recompense for the material wealth thus foregone.

Sadly the system has become so horribly devalued by rewarding political donations or fawning after public approval that nowadays one almost expects an embarrassing fall for those elevated by honours.

In reply to Chris the Tall:


If you look at the honours lists in full, the overwhelming majority are for "services to school crossings" and similar. Political patronage is a small (if prominent) part. I think it is healthy to acknowledge contributions to society in this way and we shouldn't let cynicism about the problematic awards (which is nothing new) spoil the whole system.

In reply to Trangia:

I don't know if it's outdated or just hijacked.

In reply to Trangia:

Frankly I don't care, but surely Sir Farqhan Tarquin or whoever gave the £1.6million to the Tory party will be faintly embarrassed as everyone knows he just bought the knighthood?

Won't he..........?


<sounds of hollow laughter>

In reply to Babika:

What would it cost me to become Sir Trangia Stove?

In reply to MG:


I totally disagree. For every dinner lady with a gong, there are a thousand others, equally lovely, without one. It's arbitrary and silly, and if you need this system to provide value for your efforts in life, you should probably do a bit of self-examination as to why you bother doing anything "good" at all.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

You really are an old misery guts! Do you find Christmas presents a bit frivolous too - much better to self-examine why you appreciate someone perhaps?

No one becomes a crossing lady to get an OBE. However, I am sure if you have been one for decades, it is nice to get some recognition from society for your efforts. As with any award or prize there is an element of luck, but looking at those who I know who have got an award, I can't think of any who weren't a cut above in terms of commitment and contribution.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Its not arbitary. People have to be nominated. In that respect at the dinner lady level its quite democratic.

In reply to GrahamD:


I wish I could agree that it's democratic. From some involvement, the likelihood of success with a nomination depends strongly on who fronts the nomination when it comes before the relevant Honours Committee (members all unelected of course). Insiders will tell you that endorsement by a recognisable and reliable Establishment figure like a Lord Lieutenant or the head of a public body will considerably enhance the prospects of getting a gong.

Particularly with the 'lower' more numerous Awards, implicit quotas by geography, gender, apparent ethnicity, etc. will distort the simple assessment of merit. And I'll take a lot of persuading that the hierarchy of Honours is anything other than a fossilisation and reinforcement of a grimly entrenched social pecking order. I've seen the disdain of retired Civil Servant acquaintances for anything 'below' an OBE.

In respect of this ludicrously outdated system of patronage - "the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire", I ask you - I'm firmly with the company of old misery guts.

In reply to Trangia:

I have a 'Friend' who recently got a gong. If I mention his name on here will he be stoned to death when next at the crag?