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Donald Trump - 'Muslim Mother Gate'

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 Timmd 01 Aug 2016
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36937260

I find it hard to see this as anything other very assumptive and judgemental (and rather crass that he's said so), for Donald Trump to say that this dead Muslim soldier's mother didn't speak, because she wasn't allowed to by her husband.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36936784

Here you can hear him (seemingly) cite the wider terror problem as what influenced his opinion that the wife and mother wasn't allowed to speak.

Him doing so potentially makes it a very public example of how negative assumptions about a group can start to grow due to the actions of a few, and a few negative events.
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 The Lemming 01 Aug 2016
In reply to Timmd:

You are talking about the next leader of the Free World, with access to the NSA and weapons of mass destruction.
OP Timmd 01 Aug 2016
In reply to The Lemming:
I know
Post edited at 18:18
 Fraser 01 Aug 2016
In reply to The Lemming:

> You are talking about the next leader of the Free World....

I doubt it and sincerely hope not. But I was wrong about the EU referendum so who knows what will happen.
 broken spectre 01 Aug 2016
In reply to Fraser:

The Simpsons are backing Clinton. There's hope for the world yet!

youtube.com/watch?v=tLSy8Tl2bjs&
 Rob Exile Ward 02 Aug 2016
In reply to broken spectre:

Not entirely tongue in cheek, i'm surprised more people haven't noted the similarity between Trump and Mussolini. Look at him making some bombastic, absurd, outrageous statement - like his most recent offering, when he calls Clinton the devil. He then thrusts his jaw forward like a little boy, defying anyone to tell him off, and looking lie he might burst into tears if they did. Look up some youtube of Mussolini, he had exactly the same mannerism. It's uncanny.
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 DerwentDiluted 02 Aug 2016
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Here's hoping his first state visit is to a Milan garage then.
 Dave Garnett 02 Aug 2016
In reply to Timmd:

He's a snake. He raises one outrageous lie after another, usually with cynically deniable qualifiers like 'maybe her religion doesn't allow it, you tell me'. He spews out random accusations and smears and the next day he has a new set. He doesn't even mean most of it, he's focus-grouping using whole populations then picking up the memes that get some traction. He seems mystified that someone like Ted Cruise would even remember what he said a few days earlier, let alone take offence. He has no sense of responsibility, and he genuinely believes that building a property empire based on a huge cash leg-up from his father is a sacrifice comparable with having your son give his life for his country.

He is beneath contempt.
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 IceKing 02 Aug 2016
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Oh my word, just watched a speech on Youtube, you're not wrong, really uncanny!

Even amongst all the posturing, lies, grand-standing and self aggrandisement the trait that really creeps me out about him, and such a revealing window into his soul, is the way he reacts when he perceives a slight against him. His narcissism just lashes out and he will say anything about anyone regardless of how it makes him look. If he gains (more) political power I wouldn't be at all surprised if he used it to crush any dissent, he lashes out like a little child. It is a very worrying mix indeed, narcissism and power! Power corrupts and if he gets any more I think we are in big trouble. He will not be able to handle it in any way responsibly!
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 RomTheBear 02 Aug 2016
In reply to IceKing:

Yep, he's the most powerful dictator in the world in the making. And a particularly dangerous one.
Unfortunately, looking at the polls, it looks like it's 50/50 to me.
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 mark s 02 Aug 2016
In reply to Timmd:

very ironicly he has gagged his ex ivana from speaking about him,also his current wife cant speak with out copying a speech from michelle obama
 Pete Pozman 02 Aug 2016
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:


> Not entirely tongue in cheek, i'm surprised more people haven't noted the similarity between Trump and Mussolini. Look at him making some bombastic, absurd, outrageous statement - like his most recent offering, when he calls Clinton the devil. He then thrusts his jaw forward like a little boy, defying anyone to tell him off, and looking lie he might burst into tears if they did. Look up some youtube of Mussolini, he had exactly the same mannerism. It's uncanny.

It's uncanny that I was thinking exactly the same thoughts Rob!
I'd like to see a mash up video demonstrating exactly that. I reckon it would go viral and might even make a difference in this very real war against the Vile Right.
I haven't the slightest idea how to do it myself of course.
By the way Hitler had some of the same mannerisms.
People who say come off it need to wake up and read the signs.
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 Pete Pozman 02 Aug 2016
In reply to mark s:

NB Melania's Facebook page has been taken down so she can't make any more mistakes. See how much we hear from her after that fake speech. Exactly whose wife is being silenced?
 SChriscoli 02 Aug 2016
In reply to Timmd:

He's a bonafide cockwomble of the highest order.

Yet he seems to be able to be a racist, misogynist, hypocrite with rhetoric full of contradiction -and yet people keep voting for him.

Look our own (UK) house isn't in order, but this US race gives me more chills than any UK political spat.

I would normally implore the US people to vote with their heads....but they voted Bush in twice.

I wait with baited breath.
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 SChriscoli 02 Aug 2016
In reply to Pete Pozman:

Actually I've heard its just re-directing to Michelle Obamas page now
cragtaff 09 Aug 2016
In reply to Timmd:

I think the world spends too much time worrying about Trump. The country he intends to become president of has an amazing record of assassinated presidents, he is probably just the next in line. Stop worrying, it will all sort itself out.
 Pete Pozman 09 Aug 2016
In reply to cragtaff:

I wonder what your considered opinion is about Brexit.
Do surprise me...
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 ByEek 09 Aug 2016
In reply to Pete Pozman:

> I'd like to see a mash up video demonstrating exactly that. I reckon it would go viral and might even make a difference in this very real war against the Vile Right.

I completely agree. The trouble is that anyone who critiseses him is instantly a member of the establishment and therefore an example of the cause he stands against. It is the political equivalent of the childhood chant, "I know you are. You said you are. So what am I?" It worked for the Brexit campaign and I am yet to see an argument that can actually counter it.

That said, the mounting opposition to him in his own party looks likely to be his biggest obstacle.

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 Roadrunner5 09 Aug 2016
In reply to RomTheBear:
> Yep, he's the most powerful dictator in the world in the making. And a particularly dangerous one.

> Unfortunately, looking at the polls, it looks like it's 50/50 to me.

Far from 50:50, last week severely damaged him.

He seems to be losing his energy and is offering nothing new, just lies.


http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Still a way off but for a two horse race those are long odds for him to recover from
Post edited at 15:45
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 Rob Exile Ward 09 Aug 2016
In reply to Roadrunner5:

Hallelujah!

(Isn't that what we're supposed to say about US elections?!)
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 Roadrunner5 09 Aug 2016
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
He's started to lose ground in strong republican states, never mind the swing states which typically decide this.

Republicans seem to be thinking more and more of 2020 and winning down the ticket. It's almost unthinkable that we will have 4 democrat terms and they know a sensible moderate republican will get in then.

Only once since the war have we had three consecutive terms (Raegan x 2 then Bush), typically after 8 people want change. And we've never had 3 democrat terms since the war.
Post edited at 18:03
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 Roadrunner5 10 Aug 2016
In reply to Roadrunner5:

It would be interesting why someone disliked this post.

I dont think many republicans would disagree with it. Its pretty factual with few opinions in it.

GOP officials are jumping ship.
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 MG 10 Aug 2016
In reply to Roadrunner5:

He's moved into death threats now!
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 wbo 10 Aug 2016
In reply to Timmd:
God only knows what he meant when he said that, and he speaks so much rubbish ad lib i doubt he remembered what he meant. But ITS one more thing to add to the list thats just pushing him down in the polls. Glad that Ian reference 538 as they are very good at predicting results compared to individual polls.

The republican party are having this - they are getting scared of losing the senate too as part of the fallout, so need to support him, but keep a distance . ITS interesting to watch his coverage on Fox - they HATE Clinton, but also know 'the Donald' will be a disaster, so run some pretty unfavourable stories on him.

This show will run. My own feeling is that before November some horrible scandal will be remembered/reintroduced from Trumps past , the Democrats are just holding it back till the Republican party really cannot introduce anyone else, or to really kill them off
 SChriscoli 10 Aug 2016
In reply to MG:

His spin wizards already put out a statement advising what he actually meant.

Paraphrased: that 2nd amendment supporters can rally and us their VOTING power to defeat Hillary who is against liberal gun ownership.

I can see it now:

Yes Mr Putin, what Pres. Trump meant to say was if we use our power of the Red Button - metaphorically speaking..
....Launched?....

Oh f***!
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 Pete Pozman 10 Aug 2016
In reply to SChriscoli:
The trouble is he spouts like a geezer propping up the bar. Just saying stuff for the hell of it to impress his mates. If you're the kind of person who would have Trump as a mate then he's gonna be your man. Sadly, and worryingly, we here in the UK have proved that that kind of person might just be a majority.
Watch the footage. When he makes his suggestion that gun owners can do something about Clinton there's a guy in red on the right who cringes then turns to his wife as if to say "Wow! Did I just hear that?" Then they have a good chortle about it. Just like our Brexiteers, they have no idea how serious this business is.
Post edited at 09:48
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cragtaff 10 Aug 2016
In reply to Pete Pozman:

> I wonder what your considered opinion is about Brexit.

> Do surprise me...

What the hell has that got to do with Trump?
 Trevers 10 Aug 2016
In reply to cragtaff:

> I think the world spends too much time worrying about Trump. The country he intends to become president of has an amazing record of assassinated presidents, he is probably just the next in line. Stop worrying, it will all sort itself out.

I'm sure the CIA is already brainstorming ways to make it look like an accident
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 Pete Pozman 10 Aug 2016
In reply to cragtaff:

I'm just guessing that you're going to say don't worry about that either. Apologies anyway. It's a remark I didn't need to make.
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cb294 10 Aug 2016
In reply to Pete Pozman:

Quite a few of the mannerisms of Mussolini, Hitler, and their contemporaries even up to Chrushtshov that seem bizarre to modern viewers can easily be explained by the fact that they started their political careers addressing crowds without microphones. Same for the shouty way of speaking at political speeches from the 1930s and 40s.

Yes they had microphones and amplification then, but not when they started, and more importantly, quietly talking into a microphone was not yet what a proper politician sounded like.

The more interesting question, with a potentially scary answer, is why Trump appears to be copying this style? With this I do not mean that Trump himself has the format to become the next great dictator, but whether he is right in assuming that his potential voters would find this appealing?

CB
 Pete Pozman 10 Aug 2016
In reply to cb294:

And even more interesting: why when the people are gagging for the truth do they flock to fall at the feet of the biggest, crassest, most obvious liar there is. Trump is purported to be a "strong man" but he is the spoilt son of a multi millionaire racist rack renter from New York. He is what every two year old would look like as a grown up. He couldn't be weaker
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cb294 10 Aug 2016
In reply to Pete Pozman:

Good point. My take on it is that most people are not actually interest in "truth", but simply like to hear their prejudices reinforced. This would be the political version of having a belief or conviction first, before making up the supporting arguments, which come second and are essentially arbitrary.

In the words of Ian Banks:

“Most people are not prepared to have their minds changed," he said. "And I think they know in their hearts that other people are just the same, and one of the reasons people become angry when they argue is that they realize just that, as they trot out their excuses."

"Excuses, eh?" Well, if this ain't cynicism, what is?" Erens snorted.

"Yes, excuses," he said, with what Erens thought might just have been a trace of bitterness. "I strongly suspect the things people believe in are usually just what they instinctively feel is right; the excuses, the justifications, the things you're supposed to argue about, come later. They're the least important part of the belief. That's why you can destroy them, win an argument, prove the other person wrong, and still they believe what they did in the first place." He looked at Erens. "You've attacked the wrong thing.”




CB

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 Roadrunner5 10 Aug 2016
In reply to MG:

> He's moved into death threats now!

It was a silly comment.

'If she gets to pick her judges' he was clearly talking about after she was elected..

If he just said sorry and clarified it, the matter would be over, but he can't.

Hes not broadening his base, his support is too narrow, all Clinton has to do is play it safe and she will walk this now.
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 Pete Pozman 10 Aug 2016
In reply to Roadrunner5:

Take a look at the video and check the blond woman in red and the man above her on the extreme left. They're both chewing.
When Trump drops his assassination "joke", look at their expressions as the bearded guy goes "Woah!"
That's right; no change of expression at all. They were staring blankly into space and carry on doing exactly the same; chewing calmly away like cows in a field.
I think that says more about Trumpers than anything else.
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In reply to Trevers:

> I'm sure the CIA is already brainstorming ways to make it look like an accident

Hair-mouth interface problem, causing choking/suffocation...?
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 RomTheBear 10 Aug 2016
In reply to Roadrunner5:

> Far from 50:50, last week severely damaged him.

> He seems to be losing his energy and is offering nothing new, just lies.


> Still a way off but for a two horse race those are long odds for him to recover from

Wishful thinking and complacency. I do not think we can rely on the polling data, nor on the models, because this election is too different from the previous one.
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 Roadrunner5 10 Aug 2016
In reply to RomTheBear:

I don't think that's complacent. I've been donating to the campaign and have volunteered to help the campaign as I can't vote.

But the polls are very strong st the moment. We aren't just talking 2-3 points line with Brexit. That was always within the margin of error.

Nate silvers models are very accurate.

I think it's very similar, the U.S. election is dependent on a handful of states so it can be fairly accurately predicted.

If it stays an 8-10 point swing in the key states trump won't win.

There's a long way to go but he's got a lot of ground to make up and just seems unable not the run off script. He's never shown an ability to claim moderates, he won the primary targeting angry whitemen, that won't get him the white house. He needs to broaden his base but so far is just alienating more and more people.
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 MG 10 Aug 2016
In reply to RomTheBear:

> I do not think we can rely on the polling data,

So why above did you (inaccurately) say polling data suggested 50/50?

Jim C 10 Aug 2016
In reply to mark s:

> also his current wife cant speak with out copying a speech from michelle obama

Which she thought had been written for her( she was just reading it, she did not know it was plagiarised by some lazy lackey )
The Queen also gets lackeys to write her speeches
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 RomTheBear 10 Aug 2016
In reply to MG:

> So why above did you (inaccurately) say polling data suggested 50/50?

It was around 50/50 when I posted it.
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In reply to RomTheBear:

Yes: as the 538 site shows, there was a dramatic change of opinion at the end of July/start of August.

The large swing may stick, or people may creep back to Trump by November. Large swings suggest volatily. Volatility means inaccurate prediction.
 Roadrunner5 10 Aug 2016
In reply to captain paranoia:
That was after the convention.

Convention bounces are quite typical, Trump confounded that by having an unprecedented bad week attacking Kahn and numerous other gaffs on a daily basis and day by day senior GOP figures are un-endorsing him and even endorsing Clinton.

I don't think it was volatility, more an acceptance that trump can't be presidential nor trusted not to make gaffs. Republicans wanted to be able to vote for him but have now turned their backs with Johnson gaining. Clinton played it safe with Kaine and has appealed to the more moderate republicans. She's not a good speaker but she's a good politician.

Typically though things don't change that much after conventions. The only time he got ahead was between the conventions when he had a bounce and she hadn't yet.. They'd have probably come out as before, with her 3-4 points ahead, until he had an awful week and he's now been warned by the secret service.

He could end up dropping out citing its rigged..

But it's only a few months since we had an MP shot and killed, in the US we've had senators shot and almost killed, such statements do incite people who maybe unhinged. It was a disgusting comment.

HRC actually has form she did something similar, more distasteful than an actual threat, but she backed down and apologized. Trump won't.
Post edited at 21:41
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 Roadrunner5 10 Aug 2016
In reply to RomTheBear:

> It was around 50/50 when I posted it.

It's just not 50-50 though, the winding path shows the way to 270.. It has states ranked on size of the margin, Clinton is well over 200 in safe states, she just needs a few swing states and she's there.

Trump needs to turn many states. He's a very narrow path to victory and if he loses Florida it's basically game over.

The emails is rumbling on and more leaks are planned but so far they aren't releasing anything we didn't already know so are unlikely to rock the boat.
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 Roadrunner5 11 Aug 2016
In reply to Roadrunner5:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/291061-former-florid...

This is brilliant. Van Jones couldnt even talk when asked about it on CNN as he was laughing so much at the absurdity. Whilst attacking Clinton for not checking the people behind her, Trump, insisting he knew them all behind him, and had an an alleged pedophile in there, .. It's like a reality TV/Office style sitcom but its actually real life.

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