UKC

"Marlene" 7c is the quintessential Scottish sport climb. So why would anyone feel the need to trad climb it? Robbie Phillips explains why...

Watch the video: http://www.ukclimbing.com/videos/play.php?i=3335

In reply to UKC Videos:

I have climbed several bolted lines on Scottish crags, Vallorcine, Grindelwald Pass, other Swiss crags, all on trad gear. I have taken a whipper onto a cam, when could have clipped a bolt in front of me. In the Alpine mountains, yet again chose to place own gear, even if takes longer to construct belay.

In every case above, bolts aren't needed, since good protection is available and IMO allows those without enough experience, to be on routes they're not ready for!

Was this particular climb originally done on gear, if not, why not??

Stuart

In reply to Stuart the postie:


It just a lot easier and more convenient if it's bolted. Avoids everyone having to buy their own expensive gear, carry it up there, and have faff around placing it.

In reply to UKC Videos:

Is this the Marlene that's called Marlina in Highland Outcrops?

In reply to Stuart the postie:

Well I don't know anything about Marlene having never climbed there (much to my loss, I think), but I can think of lots of crags with soft rock that would suffer from repeated falls onto trad gear - loss of placements and also loss of foot and handholds etc. Clearly from watching the video and from what he says, Robbie isn't going to fall off Marlene. But I would... repeatedly!

In reply to UKC Videos:

I would be genuinely interested to know the reasons for the "dislikes".

I am probably not alone among those who would just about recognise every hold on the route by feel, blindfolded, who wish the film had been edited to show more clearly where (relative to the holds) all the gear was going - only recognised some of them!

In reply to jon:


I can't imagine that, bolted or not, it was ever going to become popular enough as a trad route for that to be a problem!

Incidentally, I remember at least one climber who was contemplating it as a trad route before it was bolted, and expressed disappointment that it was.

In reply to Robert Durran:

A brief resume of Marlene/Marlina s history- the route was looked at by various people on top rope & it was always thought that it would be led on trad gear eventually!!! Cubby decided to do the route placing 2 bolts & using trad gear between the bolts- all of which was checked out first. He led he route over a few days pre placing his rope at his hi point from the previous day. Murray Hamilton repeated the route in a similar style. Myself with Steve Lewis decided to place 2 extra bolts in the bottom section ( the crack had a few pegs in it) as we were of the opinion that having avoided the challenge of doing the route all on trad the route should be a proper sport route & abbing to check out the crap RPs etc to place between the bolts was not something most people would be bothered with. If the route had been done all trad I would have been more than happy to leave it be, however putting in 2 bolts left it as a route which would be neither one thing or the other. It became the most popular sport route in Scotland ( before hamish teds appeared!). I would like to emphasize that watching the video he used a lot of cams most of which were not in existence at the time of the first ascent & also it was a transitional time in climbing when bolt routes in Britain were controversial. Lastly a bit strange doing it on gear for yourself but arranging a film to be posted on UKC later!!!

In reply to spidermac:

Back around 1980/1 Jerry (Moffatt)'s mum drove us up to Scotland as she had some business or something. We stayed near that crag and got run out there as we'd seen pics and it looked great. Two days we spent climbing scrappy, not very good E1s. It was on the last route of the trip that we realised we were on the sh*tty Lower Tier. Bstrds, bstrds. We were gutted. Never went back....

SPIDERMAN, please PM me .....

In reply to AP Melbourne:

Hi Andy have messaged you. No substitute for a Scottish winter/alpine upbringing - helps in finding the crag!!! ha ha. You must have thought f...n snabagging jocks AGAIN!!!!

In reply to Robert Durran:
I was actually thinking of the much publicised video of Arnaud Petit climbing Black Bean at C££se on cams. At one point if I remember correctly he places a biggish cam between two tufas and then places another immediately above it saying 'this rock is very fragile so I'll place two cams here'. Thing is, like Robbie, he seemed to have the route well wired and was climbing within his limit so he (probably) wasn't going to fall off it so it was more just a showcase piece for Totem cams. Hugely impressive but monstrously runout and loads of faff: youtube.com/watch?v=-TeTejh1ebs&

In reply to spidermac: thanks for the history, I was sat here trying to put down the same stuff. Very different times and gear has come on so much but try telling these youngsters

In reply to UKC Videos:

Of course Graeme Livingstone actually made the first 'trad' ascent, though he neglected to place any protection or use a rope...

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:


Presumably thats tongue in cheek. Everyone needs their own draws, rope, harness, helmet, shoes, belay device so an extra set of wires isn't a great deal extra on that lot.

In reply to spidermac:

Yes there were fewer types of cams etc available at the time, but I'm still a bit surprised Cubby didn't do it on trad since he obviously had the ability. As you suggest, a couple of bolts is a bit pointless - might as well just have a fully bolted line.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I didn't want to ruin anyone's onsight

In reply to spidermac:

"Lastly a bit strange doing it on gear for yourself but arranging a film to be posted on UKC later!!!"

Robbie actually did do it for himself, it wasn't until a few weeks later that we thought about filming it. It's just my media attention junkie nature.

In reply to GrahamD:


Yes, sorry.


For sport climbing!!!


He does place a few hundred pounds of Totem gear also. But generally, does anybody trad climb with just a set of wires these days? Certainly the vast majority I see out have more on their harness.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


They protect the bit you couldn't protect by placing gear, a bit like pegs. Then you can use your own gear for the rest. But I'm sure you know that.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Alternatively you run it out to the next bit of trad gear. Maybe more a personal thing but I'm not fond of hybrid routes.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


I get that impression.

But you are aware some people are, and in some countries it's common, and popular?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:


not Scotland

In reply to Michael Gordon:


That wasn't my point. I was answering your 'pointless' comment originally.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:


Helmet

For me yes. Now. I've had enough close calls belaying and with one inverted fall


People like their toys 😊

In reply to UKC Videos:

Great film - great history - great opinions - love this stuff!

In reply to spidermac:

Didn't receive it John ...

In reply to AP Melbourne:

Hi Andy have resent it
cheers Spider

In reply to Grahame N:
Well if nothing else, that definitively ends the Marlina/Marlene name debate.

In reply to JLS: Does it? Robbie lowered off the bolt rather than climbing out at the top

In reply to Michael Hood:
Sorry, I was meaning the debate over the name.
But yeah, it's a fair point, Robbie should have climbed to the top via Warfarin if he wanted to claim a trad ascent. I guess with his light weight rack he must have simply run out of gear for the finish. Still, he did well to find a placement for every single piece he was carrying.

In reply to JLS:

Yeah totally I could have climbed to the top, but I thought:

- I'm not trying to prove anything
- It's a bolted line im choosing to place gear on
- I have done that finish via other lines
- and my partner wants a go on "Silk purse" and he's bored to high hell belaying me :P

hahaha I thought it was a new way to experience a climb that for me has a hell of a lot of history (personally).

For anyone interested, I've written a blog for "The Cleanest Line" (Patagonia Blog) that will be coming out shortly. I write about my view on things and I reckon it would be really nice to hear everyone elses thoughts and opinions on it.

Glad you all enjoyed the film, I think Euan did a really good job! And yeah, it's not so obvious the gear I use, but I'd be happy to show anyone whose interested - actually I have a snap of all the gear I used so I'll post it on Facebook Page now (Robbie Phillips). Im back up on Friday for a sesh with some friends so come by and I'll point it all out to you

In reply to Robbie_Phillips:


And that's why is so hard to get time on some of these routes now, even midweek. Everyone who has done them all goes back to do them again and again, they're so good! Give the rest of us a chance Robbie!


PS only joking, knock yourself out. I'll be behind my keyboard and screen....again.

In reply to Stuart the postie:




The Olympics are on in Rio right now if you're looking for a medal.

In reply to Fraser:

These ascents weren't newsworthy, during the late 90's........ perhaps I'm being too modest.......

Stuart