UKC

wtf?

In reply to john arran:

I watched the men's last night. Mind blowing. Especially from 10m. Got me thinking - I should try diving?

In reply to bouldery bits:


Yes but would you be as keen to do your best possible dive? Or would you really be happiest doing a lesser dive as long as you could do it exactly in sync with another competitor?

In reply to john arran:

The great thing about the Olympics is the chance to watch and enjoy all the weird (climbing - watch this space) and wonderful sports that we don't normally get the chance to appreciate

In reply to kevin stephens:

True. The judo made interesting viewing, and the equestrian eventing was gripping.

In reply to kevin stephens:

And yet climbers believe that crags will be full straight after 2020...

To be honest, I didn't even know the synchronized diving was in Olympics as well, even though I have spent 5 days a week in the swimming pool for 7 years.

In reply to bouldery bits:

Did you see the Filipino team.

World class :-D

In reply to kevin stephens:


Fixed that for you

In reply to john arran:

If you start questioning the 'why' of sports, then you're in an infinite regress...

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Surely you can question the 'why' of dressage though? I mean making your horse look pretty before making it tiptoe side ways without dumping its breakfast on the floor is pushing the definition of sport a bit?

In reply to Cú Chullain:


Golf. Have you ever actually watched golf?

In reply to Postmanpat:


Watch it, I play it!

In reply to john arran:


Not a new event by any means, John - and no more silly than climbing.

It's all just a game.

In reply to Rob Parsons:



Any sport that can produce a "wizzpopper" cant be bad and that's what the commentator called the last dive.

In reply to john arran:

Some bloke copying Tom Daley also gets medal.

https://www.facebook.com/NewsThump/posts/1207942712569491

In reply to Cú Chullain:


And you laugh at dancing horses? What do you think they think of you?

In reply to Postmanpat:


While I've never been a fan, golf would seem to be a near-perfect expression of objective sporting endeavour compared to how well one can perform choreographed tricks while falling into water.

In reply to Postmanpat:


Robin Williams sums it up nicely for me....

youtube.com/watch?v=LSXMS8ABAAU&

In reply to john arran:


I'm not sure you've grasped the concept of the synchronicity! Was watching the women's today and I'm pretty certain the underwater cameras are to catch them putting their boobs back in, whilst synchronised obviously..

In reply to Postmanpat:


Probably quite envious that shitting my breakfast out during play is not a high risk.

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:


I thought you said in that other thread that you would be happy to f*** off with your tedious cynicism and let the rest of us enjoy the Ol;ympics

In reply to Steve-J-E:


Didn't see any boobs though, I was watching closely, waste of time

In reply to john arran:

I'd like to get involved in a bit of synchronised MFF muff diving

In reply to john arran:

That dilemma is obviously part of the sport. In the 15 mins I watched it the commentators did point that difficulty matters, just in case there was anyone out there thinking a perfectly synced straight dive would bag gold.

In reply to Robert Durran:


No. I said feel free to enjoy it. I don't recall making any assurances i would stop stating the bleeding obvious.

In reply to john arran:

I reckon if synchronised divers get really unsynchronised, then they should be drug tested for cheating

In reply to john arran:


My best possible I think. But synchro would be fun too!

In reply to john arran:

I must admit I was thinking the same as I watched it. Don't get me wrong, I love the Olympics and I love seeing the results of peoples' commitment and dedication to their sport but at some point if you break down what they're training themselves for it starts to sound a bit comical.

"What have you been doing these last 4 years?"
"Falling."
"Falling?"
"Yes, falling into water."
"What for?"
"I'm training for the Olympics."
"Wow, so are you one of the best in the world now at falling into water?"
"Oh I'm not aiming for that, I want to be the best at falling into water in a similar manner to another person."
"Right....."

In reply to john arran:

What about the colour of the water for the women's event?

Tom Daley must've pissed in the pool the night before

In reply to john arran:

Synchronised diving could come into its own if some teams adopted my daughter's approach. If you're not going to win a medal and know it, leap off shouting 'cannonball' and scream all the way down. I'd watch it.

In reply to Alyson:

You didn't really break it down in your little skit though.... unless 3 and a half somersaults without injuring yourself is quite normal for you.

It obviously takes a great deal of athleticism, skill, discipline and team work to do well, and some people find it entertaining. My girlfriend enjoyed it more than watching the OP drag Steve Backshall up a Tepui, horse for courses.

In reply to Mike Stretford:


It has Tom Dailey in it so that's not really a surprise

In reply to Mike Stretford:


Of course it does, and I enjoyed watching it for that reason.

In reply to Alyson:
Whilst I get your point, I suspect most leisure pursuits - or indeed anything - bare close scrutiny in this respect. I'm sure you must have had similar conversations about climbing with non climbers. I know I have.

"So you find a piece of rock, find a hard way up it, then find the easiest way to climb up that hard bit? And in so doing you might fall off and die. You do know you can just walk to the top from the back don't you?"
Etc etc etc.

In reply to Steve-J-E:


Or to see when the men's teeny trunks come off. They're so small it hardly seems worth bothering with them at all

In reply to Willi Crater:


Yes but there are still distinctions to be made in terms of what constitutes sporting endeavour (leaving aside arguments about it all being futile - we start to get close to questioning the meaning of life it we go there). Who can run fastest, throw furthest, swim fastest, lift the heaviest weight - these are all reasonably pure tests of physical ability. Anything which involves getting a score from a panel of judges starts to stray from that. Where do you stop? Competitive yoga, where the contestants are scored on difficulty and execution? It's not that different from diving or gymnastics really. It's the performance element of the synchronized diving which slightly detracts for me (the same is true of many other Olympic disciplines) - right down to the suspiciously matching, uniform tans.

In fact, I have a bit of a problem with any swimming stroke which isn't crawl. It's the fastest! Butterfly stroke is like race-walking - artificially travelling slower. Weird.

Still love watching it all though!

In reply to nufkin:


I think the trunks are mainly needed to help synchronize the tackle. What if they go for a back one and half somersaults in the straight position and their gentleman's sausages point in opposite directions? That's a potential points deduction right there.

In reply to Alyson:




How do you feel about the walking race?

In reply to Trevers:

I love it, obviously. I think the Olympics should also include:

- 50m crawling race
- 400m hop
-100m walking handstand race

In reply to Alyson:

Swimmers get extra races for going forwards, backwards, forwards in a silly fashion etc, so why not runners

And seeing as we have horse dancing why not dog agility ?

In reply to Chris the Tall:

Surely there is a strong a case for Olympic sheepdog trials?

In reply to Alyson:


Really a difficult question. I have a big problem with any sport where judges score something like the "artistic" quality of a performance, such as all the figure skating events in the winter Olympics, regardless of the obvious physical skill that is also required.

However, one thing is missing from your list, and this is who beats whom. At least boxing and wrestling are as old as any sports events we know of.

Neither can do without a judge, and especially boxing has a big problem with the subjective nature of its scoring. Bit better in my sport, Judo, but still sometimes dodgy. For example, the Japanese light middleweight should have been penalized for passivity much earlier in yesterday´s bronze medal match. As it was, his Georgian opponent was forced to attack and lost.

CB

In reply to cb294:

All very true. I imagine the first Olympiad had some sort of wrestling or boxing, so there is a strong case for including them, even with the judging element.

Yes it's the 'artistic' part which is the sticking point. Why is ice dancing a sport but ballet dancing an art?

In reply to Cú Chullain:


I'm sure I read somewhere recently that there was a call for jousting to be added to the olympics. I'd happily see that replace the current equestrian events

In reply to nufkin:


But all involve horses and so who wins will, to an extent, will depend on who has access or can afford the best horse. As such, all should be binned from the Olympics.

In reply to Alyson:





Egg and spoon race, sack race relay...

In reply to Robert Durran:


And as an extension of that...ban the winter olympics. most of the world have no clue what that's all about

In reply to john arran:

you haven't seen synchronised swimming yet then?

In reply to malk:

Sadly, I have. It seems the Ministry of Silly Swims is impressively well connected at the IOC.

In reply to Robert Durran:


Ban cycling events for the same reasons. And pole-vaulting. And ...

In reply to Robert Durran:


They only need one horse each - the IOC could provide them (with maybe a couple of extras to rotate to reduce fatigue). I'd have thought fitted plate armour and lances would be quite pricy, mind

In reply to john arran:


Indeed. And by mastering several different silly swims it seems to be possible to win loads of gold medals, whereas there is only one gold medal for one silly walk. Not at all fair in my opinion.

In reply to nufkin:


This is the situation which provides one of the highlights of the games, the Modern Pentathlon horsey bit, where people who aren't full time riders, get on horses who don't want to be ridden by them and hope that between the two of them they can get round the showjumping without killing one another. It's excellent stuff.

In reply to john arran: Great diving from Laugher and Mears, in the mix.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

Gold! Whoop!

In reply to john arran:

brilliant . great diving .

In reply to john arran:

bit harsh on the Mexicans though.

In reply to Alyson: Womderful Watersports Wednesday!

In reply to Queenie:


I'd say the judo was gripping...and throwing.

In reply to Alyson:

Might be half a point depending on genetics/arousal/cold.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

NOOOOO!!

Winter sports are great. On the contrary, we should play the football world championship in February in central Europe every now and then: White pitches, green lines, orange ball, what's not to like?

CN

In reply to mountainbagger:

The quality of the Judo was generally a bit shit, at least in the rounds up to the quarters that I could watch before training starts. Had a good laugh, though, today. A guy I know from my competition times is now one of the national coaches. So if my wife thinks I have grown fat, I can show her what growing fat looks like in a pro....

CB

In reply to birdie num num:


Haha the people who disliked your post should own up so we know who doesn't have a sense of humour on here...

In reply to Steve-J-E:

I disliked it cos I don't know who this other F is in the scenario but she can do one, as far as I'm concerned.




(I didn't really)

In reply to john arran:

Synchronised climbing? Two climbers climbing identical routes at the same time. Marks given for style and grace, marks knocked off for using a hold slightly before or after your partner.

Maybe the routes could be done sight unseen?

In reply to john arran:

This is turning into a great medal day for all sorts of sports - canoe, judo, synchronised diving, shooting....
Just need Max Whitlock to,well, max out really.

Come on Max!!

In reply to Alyson:



Come on, the more the merrier

In reply to john arran:

Tom Daley and Dan Goodfellow, cutest couple in the Olympics !

In reply to Babika:

He did quite well

Not quite as cute as the aforementioned couple but still 'Olympic class' !

In reply to john arran:


Think how much training it must take to just perform a dive with somersaults involved in the first place?

I think it's highly skilled.

In reply to john arran:

I rang my mate this morning, and we both agreed to throw a sickie and go fishing instead. Synchronised skiving.

In reply to Timmd:


Darcey Bussell is/was highly skilled.

In reply to Postmanpat:


Even some of their top players think golf is not an important Olympic sport. ( not worth competing in)

In reply to john arran:

I'm waiting on synchronised underwater unicycle horse-dance gymnastics becoming an olympic event.

In reply to Big Ger:


Well climbing got in - so synchronised underwater unicycle horse-dance gymnastics should have a good chance.

Thinking about gymnastics though: what a sport! The strength and agility on display in that event at the Olympics is just mind-boggling and, for me, very inspiring to watch. Not too long ago, seeing a crucifix done on the rings was a special event - but now some of the men are more-or-less directly pulling up into them. One-handed giant swings on the high bar etc. etc. - it's all just great to watch.

In reply to Rob Parsons:



Your description of the attraction of watching gymnastics would suggest it has much more in common with circus performance than with Olympic sport. Where's the Citius - Altius - Fortius, escpecially compared to sport climbing, in which the faster - higher - stronger element is glaringly obvious.

That's not to say that top-level gymnastics isn't monumentally impressive, of course it is. And it can make great viewing too, which also is beside the point (at least ideologically.) Rather, it's impressive in a way that doesn't fit easily within the core Olympic model. It's very easy to confound physical and technical difficulty with appropriateness as an Olympic event or even as a sporting event at all (c.f. synchronised anything).

In reply to john arran:

I think gymnastics must stay, first because of its long standing tradition, and second because the judging focuses on whether a competitor managed to execute specific moves requiring amazing physical skills (with the exception of the ground routines, especially in the women´s event, where scoring includes choreographic elements).

Less convinced about the diving. Just having judges should not matter, you need them in wrestling and boxing as well.

I am fine with including sport climbing, probably the best example of altius you can find!

What should go is disciplines where athletic skill is secondary (golf, shooting, archery despite its tradition, and horse riding, especially dressage) or where winning the Olympics is not the pinnacle of the sport (tennis, football). I would love to see ironman distance triathlon included.

In reply to PPP:


Well, I expect the indoor walls will be for a couple of weeks - just like at the start of January every year.

In reply to john arran:


What 'core Olympic model' are you talking about? The phrase 'Citius, Altius, ,Fortius', was proposed by Pierre de Coubertin, considered the father of modern Olympics. He was one of the main organisers of the early modern Olympics, and gymnastics was included right from the start.

If you want the Olympics to change to something it never has been, fine, but it does seem an odd thing to get concerned about. Pretty mean too, you'd deny Laugher and Mears their moment in the limelight, for what?

In reply to john arran:

As impressive as the gymnastics is, it still come down to arbitrary judging. And this get's particularly dodgy on the female side where you get young girls in full make-up pouting and strutting for the judges.

If only there was some way you can apply those gymnastic skills - strength and agility - into to something that could be measured objectively....

In reply to Chris the Tall:



you have no soul

In reply to Jim C:


Golf isn't a sport at all.

In reply to john arran:

My problem with a lot of this stuff is the measurabiliy of it.
Run, jump, chuck something - all measurable.
My requirements for Olympic sport would be:
- definitively measurable (so, very very regrettably, no gymnastics)
- individual endeavour (sadly no relays , let alone the synchro nonsense or football)
- athleticism required (bye bye shooting and golf)
- human powered (flying horses to Brazil is bonkers)

Oh, and would have to be performed nude. Oiled obviously.

Climbing would not make the cut.

In reply to JJL:


Although it satisfies your preconditions.

In reply to Removed UserBwox:


Not the way I play it anyway, it is a punishment for me (and the course)

In reply to JJL:

Agree with 3 of your 4 conditions, but think there is room for some team activity, as long as we are talking small teams (maybe 4 or 5 max), as cooperation is a quality worth celebrating.

But can't see why climbing misses the cut, unless it's due to the requirement to be oiled.

In reply to Mike Stretford:



I don't have a problem with Gymnastics inclusion per se. Like others on here I only have a problem when winners are decided on intangibles, e.g. "artistic impression". If it was down to who could perform the most difficult gymnastic feats that would be great (and without knowing anything I would guess that would encapsulate the original spirit of the sport's inclusion), but if it's who can perform them with the most grace and poise?, sorry but for me that's no longer sport. I accept there needs to be some judging to determine whether a feat has actually been performed or not and that would be an inevitable grey area, but extra points for creative dance moves is an area much darker than grey.

In reply to climbwhenready:


You try holding onto a hold when you're covered in oil - it'll be like climbing limestone in the rain.

In reply to john arran:

You are over-egging the pudding.


That's more or less exactly how it's judged.


'Style' - or 'form' as it's known in gymnastics - has been an important part of the sport since day one: it is clearly more skilful to perform exactly the same moves with better style, since that implies more control. The climbing analogy would bewith one climber shaking his way up a route and almost falling off every move, and another who cruises the same route in good style. We both know who the 'better' climber would be.

In reply to Rob Parsons:


The one who actually gets to the top?

There are plenty of climbers with shaky but effective climbing styles. Equally there are graceful but crap ones.

In reply to Big Ger:


speed climbing finals are like this? (apart from style and grace)

In reply to Robert Durran:


You didn't read: *both* of them get to the top.

In reply to climbwhenready:


Definitively measurable?
What's the S.I. Unit of climbing grades then?

Given that I'm in a pain-fuelled grump, I'm adding a fifth condition:
- reproducible
So you can measure a 400m track anywhere, but letting some arbitrary route setter say "9a" doesn't work. (Actually it's a backdoor way to get rid of sailing as an Olympic sport).

In reply to Chris the Tall:

I so much want to agree as relays are fab... But your slippery slope to the dark side now starts with measuring a"quality worth celebrating".

So I don't.

In reply to JJL:



You're losing it now - all outdoor cycling events (road, MTB and BMX) are out, and all the proper events in the winter olympics would go.

Oh, and marathons would be 105 laps of the track

In reply to Chris the Tall:



In what way would those be bad outcomes?

In reply to Chris the Tall:


I might argue that, for road cycling at least, it should be out anyway - all the one-day classics, not to mention the Grand Tours, have more cache than the olympic race. Maybe the TT could stay

In reply to malk:



2 people doing exactly the same climb in the same time in synchronisation as in synchronised diving?

In reply to nufkin:

For the men maybe, though certainly not 'all the one-day classics', possibly not even all the monuments.

For the women, does it get any bigger? Maybe the world's, mainly because you get to wear the rainbow stripes all year. Nothing like this sort of coverage at any other time.

In reply to JJL:

You don't need to measure the routes, you need to measure the better climber - i.e. the one who who is capable of climbing a given route. How comps work.

In reply to climbwhenready:

So the same routes need to be set each olympics...

In reply to john arran:

How will they measure which climber is having the most fun?