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Is a moutain bike upgrade worthwhile?

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 kevin stephens 15 Aug 2016
Are modern trail bikes so much better? My 2004 Specialized Epic with 80m forks seems OK but I'm wondering how much more I would get out of a new bike with more modern design, bigger forks etc?

Would a more modern bike be easier, more rewarding and help with skill development on trails and technical cross country? Or, as I suspect is this more marketing hype than reality?
 DaveHK 15 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:
If you're happy with it then no need to replace it.

However...

I had a 2005 steel hard tail with 100mm forks then got a 140mm travel full suspension bike and it is an absolute hoot to ride. Not better than the HT just different. It brought my riding on as it encouraged me to try harder things.
Post edited at 18:54
KevinD 15 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

How much riding are you doing?
I upgraded last year from a fairly old bike and still occasionally ride an ancient one. The newer bike is faster but in terms of skill development its so so. Better on some stuff but on other bits I can just rely more on the bike than skill.
So probably wouldnt rush to upgrade but would keep it as an option as things start wearing out.
Might be worth hiring a bike at a trail centre and play comparisons.
 The Grist 15 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:
Best upgrade I ever made to my mountain bike was a dropper post. I did not know just what a massive change it would make. I enjoy mountain biking so much more now and it feels much safer. I am much better at going both up and downhill now. I also got much wider tyres and let a lot of air out.
You can spend a fortune (I did) changing the drive train to a 1x11. That also changed a lot and made the riding a lot more fun.
If you ride a lot in the peak you do not need a full suspension but it will change the way you ride and you will probably enjoy it more.
In reply to Mark Grist:

> You can spend a fortune (I did) changing the drive train to a 1x11.

I confess that the trend for 1x11 has me confused. I don't see how it's better than a 27 speed setup. I ride mostly XC, and am genuinely interested in opinion.
In reply to captain paranoia:
> I confess that the trend for 1x11 has me confused. I don't see how it's better than a 27 speed setup. I ride mostly XC, and am genuinely interested in opinion.

There's no such thing as a 27-speed bike, because a) you can't reasonably use all possible combinations of the chainring and cassette (e.g. if you used the small chainring with the smallest cog, the angle of the chain would make a din and increase chain and cog wear), and b) some of ratios are repeated across the 3 chainrings.

A 3x9 setup probably has about 12-15 different, useable gear ratios, which is not much more than 1x11 for whole lot more weight and faff, plus some added constraints on frame geometry to fit the triple chainring.

Also, off road you would almost never use the very highest gears on a 3x9 setup.
Post edited at 06:20
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In reply to Mark Grist:

Thanks Mark. I've seriously considered a dropper post but it may be throwing good money after bad on my current bike. One of the problems is technical climbing stopping the front wheel lifting, even with a longer stem to get my weight as far forward as possible. As well as living in the Peak I'm actually in Greno/Wharcliff Woods which has lots of technical riding including some steep downhill
 thedatastream 16 Aug 2016

I've recently fitted a KS ETen dropper post to my fairly inexpensive hard tail and it is very confidence inspiring. Only 100mm of travel but definitely a worthwhile upgrade.
Post edited at 07:40
 DaveHK 16 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

The whole dropper post thing depends on how and where you ride. I considered one then realised it was probably a waste of money for me. My local trails I can ride with the saddle at normal height and most of my other riding involves a big up then a big down so I'm happy to stop at the top and drop the saddle with the QR.
Rigid Raider 16 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

What happened to just getting off the back of the saddle?
2
 Pids 16 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

What you will notice is difference in wheel size - not many new bike with 26" wheels about, all either 27.5 or
29ers, you do roll faster with these
 Dan Arkle 16 Aug 2016
In reply to Rigid Raider:
> What happened to just getting off the back of the saddle?

Modern riding technique involves keeping weight on the front end. This is not intuitive if you have got used to old bikes with crap forks , but once you can do it it is so much more controllable and fun.

To the OP, if you live near Wharncliffe you would appreciate a new enduro bike. Things have moved on, and for your money you can have a lighter, faster, more forgiving (safer), more maneuverable and more fun bike!
Post edited at 08:46
 Chris the Tall 16 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

> Would a more modern bike be easier, more rewarding and help with skill development on trails and technical cross country? Or, as I suspect is this more marketing hype than reality?

Consider how young the sport is (less than 40 years) and you quickly realise that there is no reason to believe bikes are as good as they can be now, let alone 12 years ago. Take wheel size for example. The reason for 26 inch wheels was that Gary Fisher and his mates found a plentiful supply of sturdy wheels from paper boy bikes. Years later it become possible to build larger wheels that were light enough and strong enough and Fisher realised that in many cases they were better.

And along with wheel size you have better geometry, better suspension, tubeless tyres and dropper posts. Not sure about 1x11. I run 2x10 on my FS and frequently go through the full range on purely off-road rides. Likewise I run 3x10 on my HT - used for less technical, longer runs which may involve roads. Front mechs can be a pain - especially triples - but I'm not going to ditch mine yet.

Best advice is go and do some demo rides - I'd be amazed if you don't think MTB have improved.
In reply to kevin stephens:

thanks everybody
 tjin 17 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

I have a 2009 model 29er and though of replacing it. But instead I put on new tires and did some maintence to it. The tires made such a difference! Rides much better now and now my disire to upgrade my MTB went away.
 mav 17 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

To expand on what pidz said - the prevalence of 27.5" & 29" inch wheels is that my brother recently had real difficulty finding replacement mid-range forks for his aged midrange 26" hardtail. At the same time, I had a broken bottom bracket, and my own forks were lacking movement, and the bike shop's comment was that if they couldn't free the forks up, then my bill for the two repairs would be about 75% of the price of a brand new hardtail of similar spec. Thankfully they freed up the forks, and I can delay the upgrade for another year or two. BUt my obvious point is that you may find new forks harder to come by.
In reply to kevin stephens:
Thanks everybody. A wet afternoon around Greno and Wharncliffe woods:

Despite putting a longer stem on and trying to get my weight well forward the front wheel unweights or even lifts off on steep climbs (forks locked out), especially if rocky making accurate steering a lot more difficult - not sure how much of this is down to me or the bike geometry. I wouldn't like a bike that's a lot heavier and refuse to push uphill but not as fit as I should be at the moment so sometimes stop for a breather - only more riding (road and MTB) will help. I'm planning to do some longer technical cross country riding over the winter as road biking becomes less attractive.

Picked a descent I'd not done before which turned into a steep narrow gulley with lots of loose rocks and a few steps - I think bigger wheels, better forks and an auto seat post would have helped a lot and not got me so scared and eventually bailing out (as would of course better technique, confidence and experience)

On a fast flowing man made red trail I've done a few rimes before forks feeling harsh and bottoming out sometimes (I lost my shock pump a few years ago and not checked the pressure recently).

So all of this makes me think I should really be considering a new bike. Needs to be good for climbing and descending. I'm a bit vague about the difference between "trail", "enduro" and the other classifications that bike shops use but I'm guessing a "trail " bike with 130-150 forks, 27.5 inch wheels (I 'm 5'4" so not keen on 29s) and one of the modern 1 x 11 gearing systems?

I don't mind spending for good components, forks, shocks, tyres etc but not on the bling of a carbon frame. Budget may be £2.5 k +/- depending on value

Looking around (including some apparently very attractive end of season deals) some of the recommendations include:
Whyte T130 RS
Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Elite
Orange four/five pro/RS

What's the view on these and any other recommendations or suggestions?
Are there any specific components I should be looking for?
Which bike shop in or near Sheffield has the most knowlegable and helpful staff for MTB?

Thanks again
Post edited at 21:06
 kermit_uk 22 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

I ride a 5 year old hard tail and my mate had a 10 year old hard tail. Even when he had been riding a lot recently and I hadn't so he had a massive fitness edge on me I could leave him behind quite happily on anything techy or steep and we were similar on the the uphills.

He bought a 2 grand Canyon I think the spectral EX7.0 or something 140mm rear 150mm rock shox pike up front 1x11 drivetrain so exactly a trail bike.

He now basically kicks my ass and enjoys it more. He lives in Sheffield rides mainly round the peak. The confidence it has given him and the geometry being longer helps keep weight on the front wheel on climbs, the rear suss means he keeps traction and can keep pedaling and the full suss and slacker head angle gives him more confidence on the decents.

I can still just about keep up with him but he looks a lot fresher and less shaken to bits, whilst my legs are thumping after a long descent. The Spectral he bought is an awesome bit of kit for 2 grand.

Just a few thoughts.


I still have great fun on my HT though. I bought wider bars and a dropper post and they were both worth their weight in gold!
In reply to kermit_uk: thanks for your detailed account; very helpful

 The Grist 22 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

If you are going to spend £2,500 you will get a good bike. You could probably get a very good bike £2,500 - £3,000 for about £1,800 in a sale. The most important thing will be getting a bike that you like and fits you well. When I was in the market for a new bike I demoed as many bikes as possible. This was quite easy to do. My local bike shop sets up demo days where you turn up, give a passport then take the bike out on a 30 minute guided trail. You then take another. I rode 6 bikes in a morning. It did not cost anything. The shop I used is:

http://www.nwmtb.com/

They are based in South Manchester and do the demos around Marple. It may be worth contacting them to find out when the next demo day is. I am sure the better Sheffield stores will do the same at your local riding areas.

BUT do not rule out going for an internet only company like Canyon Spectral. Use the magazines to get reviews. I rode one in the alps and it was fantastic.

It is also worth pointing out that as far as I can see over the last ten years the biggest innovations in terms of frame geometry are that wheels have got slightly bigger (although a 27.5 is not that much bigger than a 26 inch but a 29 inch is huge in comparison - the size figures are misleading); front stems have got way shorter and handlebars have got wider. If you were to simply modify your existing bike you can not really make your wheels bigger or stem shorter as the bike will not be set up to take those changes. You can change a lot of other things though.

It terms of difference between trail and enduro bike. The trail will usually be 140 front and back travel. The enduro will be 160 front and back travel. This is hugely simplistic but a starting point for the difference. I took my trail bike to the alps and had a great time. I possibly would have gone faster on a enduro bike but it is not all about speed. it is what gives you the most fun. I would recommend more a trail bike for you.
 kermit_uk 22 Aug 2016
In reply to Mark Grist:

Agree with all that and demo-ing a bike or three is the ideal scenario.

The biggest thing that has changed in my opinion in recent years in geometry is not just wheels but bike are longer to allow shorter stems without cramping the rider. This gives better steering feel and control. Front ends are slacker which makes a huge difference to confidence and handling. Read all the reviews and even a degree can make a big difference.. Also wheelbase is a lot longer giving a more stable bike.

Lots of pros and cons and millions of videos and article out there discussing the best.


 mav 22 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

This is now turning into a thread I should avoid, as it will only tempt me to spend money I don't have on an upgrade I'd like but can't yet justify.

The one thing I would recommend would be to talk to as many people, and as many bike shops you can find. You sound like you already have done a lot of homework, but I always find that by rotating round shops, and asking questions, not only do my own questions become more focused, as I nudge towards what is the right answer for me, but also I become much better at assessing whether the person selling me the bike knows what they are talking about and are being honest. There comes a point when you are sitting on a bike trying to decide if it's worth 2.5k, while they you it looks good, that the problem you have isn't really a problem etc. I probably tried 5 or 6 shops earlier in the year when I got the road bike. They are competing for your business, and a good bike ship will concentrate on selling you the right bike, not the most profitable.
 Timmd 22 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

There's now quite a lot of full sus bikes which you can buy for less than 2k which warrant upgrades as parts wear out, meaning that you don't 'have' to spend more than that for a decent riding bike which won't hold you back.

An absolute bargain is this Calibre full sus bike, MBR gave it ten out of ten in their recent test of full sus bikes for under 2k, and are of the opinion it's as good as bikes which cost around twice as much, in terms of performance and how it rides, if not the 'bling parts' on it.

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-bossnut-full-sus-mountain-bike-p347143
 Timmd 22 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

It also got their MBR Bike Of The Year Award too, from last year I think.
 SC 22 Aug 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

Bikes have come on a long way in the last five years. I can now do stuff on my trail bike I wouldn't have considered on anything but a downhill bike a few years ago.
My Transition Scout has 120mm rear 150mm front suspension but is absolutely bombproof and dead stable. I've done 30 foot gap jumps on it and can get down the black trails at Gawton within a couple seconds of what I could manage on my downhill bike.
In my opinion, the best bike on a budget is the Giant Trance, absolutely superb frame and we'll worth upgrading. Canyon give you lots of nice components for your money but the frames just aren't as good as Giants.
 ChrisJD 02 Sep 2016
In reply to SC:

> In my opinion, the best bike on a budget is the Giant Trance, absolutely superb frame and we'll worth upgrading.

Couldn't agree more.

If you can find one, a Trance Advanced (carbon frame) 27.5 Model 2 for around £2.3K (2016 model) is a right bargain. Wear out the slightly cheaper stuff out and upgrade. The carbon frame is top notch.
MarkM 03 Sep 2016
In reply to kevin stephens:

If Wharncliffe Woods is a local trail for you then I'd suggest checking out http://www.airdropbikes.com/ A new independent Sheffield based company whose Edit is getting great reviews and is in your budget range. You should be able to get a test ride sorted fairly easily..
I know Ed (the owner / designer) and you would definitely get great advice from him about what set up would suit your size/ riding style / budget.

Cheers
Mark
In reply to kevin stephens:
Thanks everybody, due to time restrictions I've decided to concentrate on continuing my road cycling instead this winter (despite a tempting sale offer on a Trance 27.5 1 in my size); blame Strava.
Post edited at 21:00

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