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How old where you when you did your 1st alpine route. That is at least 4, 000 meters. My reason for asking is I am 58 years young and since i drove past some of the great mountains about 20 years ago I have longed to return. I do have winter Scottish and Welsh mountain experience. Also i consider myself quite fit. i do have a good wife and some brilliant children who couldn't and wouldn't consider such a trip. Time and money allso a factor for a couple more years.
Paul
Paul
In reply to Paul Troon:
I did my first when I was 23 and my last when I was 65. Don't leave it too long, it doesn't get easier.
Al
I did my first when I was 23 and my last when I was 65. Don't leave it too long, it doesn't get easier.
Al
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In reply to Paul Troon:
28 and I wasn't particularly experienced in the UK - I had been climbing for less than 2 years with about 30 rock routes and 5 winter routes done, although my fitness was good (lots of munro-bashing during this 2 year period).
I would say that 4,000m peaks do need acclimatisation (at least one previous expedidion to over 3,000m, even if it's just going up to a hut for a beer and then back down!).
IIRC, Karl Blodig did his last 4,000m peak when he was in his 70s, so I am sure you will have no problem, given your experience.
28 and I wasn't particularly experienced in the UK - I had been climbing for less than 2 years with about 30 rock routes and 5 winter routes done, although my fitness was good (lots of munro-bashing during this 2 year period).
I would say that 4,000m peaks do need acclimatisation (at least one previous expedidion to over 3,000m, even if it's just going up to a hut for a beer and then back down!).
IIRC, Karl Blodig did his last 4,000m peak when he was in his 70s, so I am sure you will have no problem, given your experience.
In reply to Paul Troon:
Chèré Couloir (D 4) When I was 35.
> How old where you when you did your 1st alpine route. That is at least 4, 000 meters.
Chèré Couloir (D 4) When I was 35.
In reply to Paul Troon:
There are plenty of people older than you doing 4000m peaks so just ignore your age and if you feel like going go!
Try to get 'hill-fit' before you go and adopt a sensible acclimatisation programme and there shouldn't be a problem.
There are plenty of people older than you doing 4000m peaks so just ignore your age and if you feel like going go!
Try to get 'hill-fit' before you go and adopt a sensible acclimatisation programme and there shouldn't be a problem.
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In reply to Paul Troon:
When you say route do you mean 'route' or just a summit?
My first was when i was 35. The Allalinhorn. Even at your age with good fitness and acclimatisation it would be a doddle.
When you say route do you mean 'route' or just a summit?
My first was when i was 35. The Allalinhorn. Even at your age with good fitness and acclimatisation it would be a doddle.
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In reply to Paul Troon:
I was 25 when I did my first 4000m climb, soloing Mont Blanc.
I was 60 when I climbed Mt Kenya @ 5200m
(Lots in between)
I was 25 when I did my first 4000m climb, soloing Mont Blanc.
I was 60 when I climbed Mt Kenya @ 5200m
(Lots in between)
In reply to Paul Troon:
Two weeks ago I did the traverse of the Meije (http://www.camptocamp.org/routes/53874/en/la-meije-grand-pic-arete-du-promo... with three friends - two men of 63 and a woman of 71. I was the youngster in the team at a mere 59. Stamina is key in the Alps, and in my experience it can be younger people who have less of it.
Why not join a club, or investigate hiring a guide (if and when money permits) - there's no reason not to have a decent number seasons in the Alps before it becomes impracticable.
Two weeks ago I did the traverse of the Meije (http://www.camptocamp.org/routes/53874/en/la-meije-grand-pic-arete-du-promo... with three friends - two men of 63 and a woman of 71. I was the youngster in the team at a mere 59. Stamina is key in the Alps, and in my experience it can be younger people who have less of it.
Why not join a club, or investigate hiring a guide (if and when money permits) - there's no reason not to have a decent number seasons in the Alps before it becomes impracticable.
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In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
How do you do a summit without doing a route to get there?
> When you say route do you mean 'route' or just a summit?
How do you do a summit without doing a route to get there?
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In reply to Paul Troon:
I did my first alpine 4000m with route with a guide at 38 and two years ago at 54 did my next also with a guide who set a good pace easy to follow. Lots of via ferrata routes in between and some easy alpine routes in Austria up to about 3500m. No intention of giving up yet for a good few years. Slower yes but still hungry for them. Like you have lots of UK experience both summer and winter conditions with some full on Scottish winter routes granted at lower grade. So similar age to yourself and no intention of stopping yet. So go for it and enjoy it to the full.
I did my first alpine 4000m with route with a guide at 38 and two years ago at 54 did my next also with a guide who set a good pace easy to follow. Lots of via ferrata routes in between and some easy alpine routes in Austria up to about 3500m. No intention of giving up yet for a good few years. Slower yes but still hungry for them. Like you have lots of UK experience both summer and winter conditions with some full on Scottish winter routes granted at lower grade. So similar age to yourself and no intention of stopping yet. So go for it and enjoy it to the full.
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In reply to bonebag:
I was lucky enough to start aged 17, with a longish day doing Jungfrau & Monch from the Jungfraujoch, and carrying on down to Konkordia. Half-a-century on I like to think I'll manage a few more big peaks yet. So if you can keep suitably fit, I reckon you have at least ten good years in hand to tackle high summits. And I hope you will.
I was lucky enough to start aged 17, with a longish day doing Jungfrau & Monch from the Jungfraujoch, and carrying on down to Konkordia. Half-a-century on I like to think I'll manage a few more big peaks yet. So if you can keep suitably fit, I reckon you have at least ten good years in hand to tackle high summits. And I hope you will.
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In reply to Bob Aitken:
That's a long old day!
I climbed Monch when I was 17 I think.
Attempted to climb Dom at 16 but we were slightly alarmed by the sound of avalanches/rock fall far too close for comfort, and turned back before dawn.
That's a long old day!
I climbed Monch when I was 17 I think.
Attempted to climb Dom at 16 but we were slightly alarmed by the sound of avalanches/rock fall far too close for comfort, and turned back before dawn.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Pedant.
There are routes, and there are routes. The Allalinhorn from the train station is just a walk in the snow. Yes it's a 'route' but it's not exactly a bloody climb, is it?
> How do you do a summit without doing a route to get there?
Pedant.
There are routes, and there are routes. The Allalinhorn from the train station is just a walk in the snow. Yes it's a 'route' but it's not exactly a bloody climb, is it?
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5
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
Don't be ridiculous.
Yes, and they are all routes (obviously).
> Pedant.
Don't be ridiculous.
> There are routes, and there are routes.
Yes, and they are all routes (obviously).
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2
In reply to Robert Durran:
Go back to yer feckin Olympics....and stop being a tw*t.
Do you have anything to contribute to encourage the OP in his ambition to complete an alpine route? Other than to point out they're all bloody routes!!!
Go back to yer feckin Olympics....and stop being a tw*t.
Do you have anything to contribute to encourage the OP in his ambition to complete an alpine route? Other than to point out they're all bloody routes!!!
Post edited at 09:06
2
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In reply to Paul Troon:
Cosmiques and some other stuff at 19 (yer ok I know its a touch under 4000) with a Uni club trip.
Why not include a day for yourself in a family holiday to the Alps? The family is only inconvenienced for a day but Chamonix is an ok place.
Or is such a holiday out of the scope too? Are you genuinely sure your wife and kids have absolutely no interest in such a trip? Have you asked?
Cosmiques and some other stuff at 19 (yer ok I know its a touch under 4000) with a Uni club trip.
Why not include a day for yourself in a family holiday to the Alps? The family is only inconvenienced for a day but Chamonix is an ok place.
Or is such a holiday out of the scope too? Are you genuinely sure your wife and kids have absolutely no interest in such a trip? Have you asked?
In reply to Robert Durran:
When there is a cable car maybe?...you're normally helpful on such threads... has someone hacked your profile or is it hormones??
When there is a cable car maybe?...you're normally helpful on such threads... has someone hacked your profile or is it hormones??
Post edited at 09:32
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In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
F****** dickheaded arse. What's your problem?
Although you seem to think they're not. The normal route on the Allalinhorn (which you don't seem to consider to be a route) might in fact be a good choice for one of the OP's first routes, once acclimatised - classic glacier terrain to a high summit.
For what it's worth, my first alpine route (at the age of 18) was the normal route on the Weissmiess, also an appropriate choice.
> Go back to yer feckin Olympics....and stop being a tw*t.
F****** dickheaded arse. What's your problem?
> Do you have anything to contribute to encourage the OP in his ambition to complete an alpine route? Other than to point out they're all bloody routes!!!
Although you seem to think they're not. The normal route on the Allalinhorn (which you don't seem to consider to be a route) might in fact be a good choice for one of the OP's first routes, once acclimatised - classic glacier terrain to a high summit.
For what it's worth, my first alpine route (at the age of 18) was the normal route on the Weissmiess, also an appropriate choice.
Post edited at 11:19
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In reply to Offwidth:
No, I'm fine thanks. I just think that it is clearly idiotic to claim that some routes are not routes - not helpful at all. He seems to make a distinction between "routes" and "climbs" which might be appropriate in a British context to differentiate hill walking from rock climbing but is not appropriate in the Alps, where the easy routes are where you learn the basic alpine skills of glacier travel and so on to progress safely to more technical stuff.
And obviously I don't consider going up the Midi on the cablecar to constitute a route.
> When there is a cable car maybe?...you're normally helpful on such threads... has someone hacked your profile or is it hormones??
No, I'm fine thanks. I just think that it is clearly idiotic to claim that some routes are not routes - not helpful at all. He seems to make a distinction between "routes" and "climbs" which might be appropriate in a British context to differentiate hill walking from rock climbing but is not appropriate in the Alps, where the easy routes are where you learn the basic alpine skills of glacier travel and so on to progress safely to more technical stuff.
And obviously I don't consider going up the Midi on the cablecar to constitute a route.
Post edited at 11:24
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Eh? I'm not sure where this has come from but you've clearly got out the bed the wrong side this morning. Take a deep breath and calm down. Jeez.....
Eh? No. I didn't suggest the normal route on the Allalinhorn wasn't a route nor did I suggest it wasn't a good first choice. Try reading my post. I said exactly the opposite. The normal route on the Allalinhorn would be an ideal first choice, if all you want to do is summit, have a nice day out and get some nice views. I did say it's not exactly a climb and I did ask the OP to clarify what he exactly wanted from his alpine trip - a tick list of climbs or a tick list of summits. Sorry if that wasn't clear to you. It was to me.
Now why do you feel the need to tell me that?
Had the OP come back with a clarification all he wanted was a nice holiday, tick off some nice easy summits and see some views, I would have recommended the Saas Valley as a great base from which to achieve these aspirations. I would have included Weissmeiss, Nadelhorn and Strahlhorn all as easy achievable 4000'ers.
Have I made myself clear enough for you? Or are you just spoiling for a fight today?
> F****** dickheaded arse. What's your problem?
Eh? I'm not sure where this has come from but you've clearly got out the bed the wrong side this morning. Take a deep breath and calm down. Jeez.....
> Although you seem to think they're not. The normal route on the Allalinhorn (whuich you don't seem to consider to be a route, might in fact be a good choice for one of the OP's first routes, once acclimatised - classic glacier terrain to a high summit.
Eh? No. I didn't suggest the normal route on the Allalinhorn wasn't a route nor did I suggest it wasn't a good first choice. Try reading my post. I said exactly the opposite. The normal route on the Allalinhorn would be an ideal first choice, if all you want to do is summit, have a nice day out and get some nice views. I did say it's not exactly a climb and I did ask the OP to clarify what he exactly wanted from his alpine trip - a tick list of climbs or a tick list of summits. Sorry if that wasn't clear to you. It was to me.
> For what it's worth, my first alpine route (at the age of 18) was the normal route on the Weissmiess, also an appropriate choice.
Now why do you feel the need to tell me that?
Had the OP come back with a clarification all he wanted was a nice holiday, tick off some nice easy summits and see some views, I would have recommended the Saas Valley as a great base from which to achieve these aspirations. I would have included Weissmeiss, Nadelhorn and Strahlhorn all as easy achievable 4000'ers.
Have I made myself clear enough for you? Or are you just spoiling for a fight today?
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In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
Get a grip. I'm absolutely fine. Just felt like replying to your abusive post in kind. As I said, your distinction between "routes" and "climbs" is inappropriate in an alpine context.
You implied it was a summit but only a route rather than an actual "route" (and climb).
Not spoiling for a fight, but your first post was entirely unhelpful I just thought I'd point it out. Your negative and then abusive responses have been pathetic.
> Eh? I'm not sure where this has come from but you've clearly got out the bed the wrong side this morning. Take a deep breath and calm down. Jeez.....
Get a grip. I'm absolutely fine. Just felt like replying to your abusive post in kind. As I said, your distinction between "routes" and "climbs" is inappropriate in an alpine context.
> Eh? No. I didn't suggest the normal route on the Allalinhorn wasn't a route........ Sorry if that wasn't clear to you. It was to me.
You implied it was a summit but only a route rather than an actual "route" (and climb).
> Have I made myself clear enough for you? Or are you just spoiling for a fight today?
Not spoiling for a fight, but your first post was entirely unhelpful I just thought I'd point it out. Your negative and then abusive responses have been pathetic.
Post edited at 12:11
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Me neither, but your jumping onto my post and then critiquing it was also unhelpful. Surely my posts helpfulness is for the OP to decide?
My negative responses have been in response to you jumping on my post. Clealry you've misread/misinterpreted my post (maybe it was poorly worded) and I misread/misinterpreted your response. Let's leave it at that and hope the OP gets to the Alps and has a bloody good time?
> Not spoiling for a fight, but your first post was entirely unhelpful I just thought I'd point it out. Your negative and then abusive responses have been pathetic.
Me neither, but your jumping onto my post and then critiquing it was also unhelpful. Surely my posts helpfulness is for the OP to decide?
My negative responses have been in response to you jumping on my post. Clealry you've misread/misinterpreted my post (maybe it was poorly worded) and I misread/misinterpreted your response. Let's leave it at that and hope the OP gets to the Alps and has a bloody good time?
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Children, behave and get back to the topic in hand before the mods have to tidy up your mess... :P
Post edited at 12:40
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In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
I think that giving the impression that some (especially glacial) summits do not involve doing routes (obviously leaving aside summits that can be accessed by cable car) is entirely misleading to an alpine novice. That is all I was (I thought helpfully) pointing out.
Well it's a shame you couldn't discuss it in a more mature fashion. And I would use the word "reply" rather than "jump on".
> Me neither, but your jumping onto my post and then critiquing it was also unhelpful. Surely my posts helpfulness is for the OP to decide?
I think that giving the impression that some (especially glacial) summits do not involve doing routes (obviously leaving aside summits that can be accessed by cable car) is entirely misleading to an alpine novice. That is all I was (I thought helpfully) pointing out.
> My negative responses have been in response to you jumping on my post.
Well it's a shame you couldn't discuss it in a more mature fashion. And I would use the word "reply" rather than "jump on".
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In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
What dismays me more than this spat over terminology is the condescension latent in that comment, even if it was unintended. The OP, coming to high Alpine summits for the first time, would probably find all or any of those ascents a seriously life-enhancing experience, and doesn't need to have them slighted in advance.
> Had the OP come back with a clarification all he wanted was a nice holiday, tick off some nice easy summits and see some views, I would have recommended the Saas Valley as a great base from which to achieve these aspirations. I would have included Weissmeiss, Nadelhorn and Strahlhorn all as easy achievable 4000'ers.
What dismays me more than this spat over terminology is the condescension latent in that comment, even if it was unintended. The OP, coming to high Alpine summits for the first time, would probably find all or any of those ascents a seriously life-enhancing experience, and doesn't need to have them slighted in advance.
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In reply to Paul Troon:
This would have been a really interesting post that I was keen to follow until the two petty squabblers got involved.
Good luck with the helpful posts though.
This would have been a really interesting post that I was keen to follow until the two petty squabblers got involved.
Good luck with the helpful posts though.
In reply to phil kujawa:
I don't think the squabbling is petty. Other than dismissing some routes as not worthy of the name being, as pointed out, condescending, it could also give the impression that they are could be taken too lightly and therefore potentially dangerously. The peaks listed above involve high glacial terrain with all the dangers inherent in that. Dismissing the normal route on The Nadelhorn in this way seems particularly dodgy. That is not so say they aren't suitable objectives for a first alpine trip though.
> This would have been a really interesting post that I was keen to follow until the two petty squabblers got involved.
I don't think the squabbling is petty. Other than dismissing some routes as not worthy of the name being, as pointed out, condescending, it could also give the impression that they are could be taken too lightly and therefore potentially dangerously. The peaks listed above involve high glacial terrain with all the dangers inherent in that. Dismissing the normal route on The Nadelhorn in this way seems particularly dodgy. That is not so say they aren't suitable objectives for a first alpine trip though.
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In reply to Paul Troon:
The Matterhorn via the Hornli at 17 - unguided, but my partner was 18, so I had a grown up with me
Still wheezing and hobbling up them today, and know people 10 years older who are bouncing up them like gazelles in the springtime, so you've still got plenty of time and lots to look forward too.
The Matterhorn via the Hornli at 17 - unguided, but my partner was 18, so I had a grown up with me
Still wheezing and hobbling up them today, and know people 10 years older who are bouncing up them like gazelles in the springtime, so you've still got plenty of time and lots to look forward too.
1
In reply to Paul Troon:
At 18, with about 9 months rock climbing experience and many years of British hill walking, my first 4000er was Mont Blanc via Grands Mulets route. First Alp was SW ridge of the Moine.
And I'm just Mr Bimbly.
At 18, with about 9 months rock climbing experience and many years of British hill walking, my first 4000er was Mont Blanc via Grands Mulets route. First Alp was SW ridge of the Moine.
And I'm just Mr Bimbly.
In reply to Paul Troon:
I had been doing alpine routes for years before I climbed something higher than 4,000m. 10 years (18-28) thinking about it.
Like there are many great mountains in the UK under 3,000' there are many great mountains in alpine regions below 4,000m. Not necessarily easier either.
> How old where you when you did your 1st alpine route. That is at least 4, 000 meters.
I had been doing alpine routes for years before I climbed something higher than 4,000m. 10 years (18-28) thinking about it.
Like there are many great mountains in the UK under 3,000' there are many great mountains in alpine regions below 4,000m. Not necessarily easier either.
Post edited at 18:22
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In reply to Paul Troon:
"How old where you when you did your 1st alpine route"
29 years old, did the Breithorn 4164m non technical peak, and the Mont Blanc 4807m snow plod via the Gouter Hut, 4 days later.
Also did the Dom 4545m at 48 years old, a non technical snow plod (with a small rock section) which is a 3100m* ascent from Ronda at 1400m. (*3100m over 2 days).
I hope that I am still climbing 4000ers at 70 years old, and see no reason that this will not happen. In fact, due to my geographical constraint of being in the antipodes, I think that most of my alpine climbing is still to come.
You are as old as you feel, there are plenty of 4000ers and sub-4000ers that are non technical, but joyous to climb.
At least you are so close to them !!!
You are never too old, until the body says no.
"How old where you when you did your 1st alpine route"
29 years old, did the Breithorn 4164m non technical peak, and the Mont Blanc 4807m snow plod via the Gouter Hut, 4 days later.
Also did the Dom 4545m at 48 years old, a non technical snow plod (with a small rock section) which is a 3100m* ascent from Ronda at 1400m. (*3100m over 2 days).
I hope that I am still climbing 4000ers at 70 years old, and see no reason that this will not happen. In fact, due to my geographical constraint of being in the antipodes, I think that most of my alpine climbing is still to come.
You are as old as you feel, there are plenty of 4000ers and sub-4000ers that are non technical, but joyous to climb.
At least you are so close to them !!!
You are never too old, until the body says no.
In reply to Paul Troon:
Fitness is probably the most important bit, which you are happy with. After that experience, can you find an experienced partner to go with? Benefit there is that they can pick routes and judge what is and isn't suitable. If you don't know an experienced partner, join a club, or post on here? There is a nice adventure in doing it yourself, but the older I get, there more obvious the risks I took.
Fitness is probably the most important bit, which you are happy with. After that experience, can you find an experienced partner to go with? Benefit there is that they can pick routes and judge what is and isn't suitable. If you don't know an experienced partner, join a club, or post on here? There is a nice adventure in doing it yourself, but the older I get, there more obvious the risks I took.
In reply to Paul Troon:
I was 21 and had been climbing for about 6 months when I climbed the Aiguille Verte via the Whymper Couloir. The route was a soul destroying snow plod, although the alpenglow over the surrounding peaks and view from the summit was everything I had started climbing to experience.
I was 21 and had been climbing for about 6 months when I climbed the Aiguille Verte via the Whymper Couloir. The route was a soul destroying snow plod, although the alpenglow over the surrounding peaks and view from the summit was everything I had started climbing to experience.
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