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If you have had a serious accident, or witnessed a death, would you stop mountaineering?
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I suspect answer given before will vary from the answer given afterwards for some. Why are you asking?
T.
I suspect answer given before will vary from the answer given afterwards for some. Why are you asking?
T.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I'd curtail it. Drop a few grades, reign in my ambitions. The choice doesn't have to be a black and white climb or don't climb situation. There's a spectrum of activities to be enjoyed.
I'd curtail it. Drop a few grades, reign in my ambitions. The choice doesn't have to be a black and white climb or don't climb situation. There's a spectrum of activities to be enjoyed.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
It made me stop soloing in winter (mostly)
It made me stop soloing in winter (mostly)
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Speaking from experience, no. In my case I climbed considerably more after it happened (including quite a lot of soloing), although I wasn't enthusiastic to do the same type of climbing which I associated with the accident.
Climbing was one of my main ways to distract myself from thinking about what had happened. When you're climbing, you're often just thinking about the climbing, so it is a good way to escape from the stresses of the real world. Not sure if that is the best way to deal with something, but it seemed to help at the time.
Speaking from experience, no. In my case I climbed considerably more after it happened (including quite a lot of soloing), although I wasn't enthusiastic to do the same type of climbing which I associated with the accident.
Climbing was one of my main ways to distract myself from thinking about what had happened. When you're climbing, you're often just thinking about the climbing, so it is a good way to escape from the stresses of the real world. Not sure if that is the best way to deal with something, but it seemed to help at the time.
Post edited at 19:28
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In reply to broken spectre:
A question of the back of that answer. Is it just witnessing something that would make you do that?
I.e. Why not do that now as you know things can happen without having witnessed an accident?
No idea about the question myself really. I sport climb because I enjoy it more (due to its safety allowing me to push myself) and don't ever get in positions where I think I'm unsafe.
I made that move to sport more permanent after having a lucky trad ground fall that I walked away from. Whether witnessing something more serious would make me change, no idea really, but I suspect not that much...
Edit - didn't notice the "mountaineering" bit. I've kept away from that as it looks cold, dodgy and expensive...
> I'd curtail it. Drop a few grades, reign in my ambitions. The choice doesn't have to be a black and white climb or don't climb situation. There's a spectrum of activities to be enjoyed.
A question of the back of that answer. Is it just witnessing something that would make you do that?
I.e. Why not do that now as you know things can happen without having witnessed an accident?
No idea about the question myself really. I sport climb because I enjoy it more (due to its safety allowing me to push myself) and don't ever get in positions where I think I'm unsafe.
I made that move to sport more permanent after having a lucky trad ground fall that I walked away from. Whether witnessing something more serious would make me change, no idea really, but I suspect not that much...
Edit - didn't notice the "mountaineering" bit. I've kept away from that as it looks cold, dodgy and expensive...
Post edited at 20:01
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I used to trad climb at Swanage, the climbs were ok but I hated the muddy scramble at some of the tops to stakes which were well back from the climb, I always thought if you fell you would deck out before gear stopped you. On leaving the cliff we said hello to a couple who had just arrived. One of them was involved in fatal fall from scramble at top shortly after we left.
That was two years ago, Never been back.
I used to trad climb at Swanage, the climbs were ok but I hated the muddy scramble at some of the tops to stakes which were well back from the climb, I always thought if you fell you would deck out before gear stopped you. On leaving the cliff we said hello to a couple who had just arrived. One of them was involved in fatal fall from scramble at top shortly after we left.
That was two years ago, Never been back.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Why are you asking?
But yes I was there when a friend fell to his death (soloing in winter, Scotland) and I did stop climbing for a couple of months although I continued hill walking & skiing
Why are you asking?
But yes I was there when a friend fell to his death (soloing in winter, Scotland) and I did stop climbing for a couple of months although I continued hill walking & skiing
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Risk perception is well known to be heavily influenced by recent events witnessed and to a lesser extent even reported. It's therefore only to be expected that people's behaviour is likely to be changed, at least while the incident is still fresh in the memory. Nobody can really know to what extent it will affect them personally unless or until it actually happens. I'd like to think though that I'd be able to move on from such a knee jerk reaction sooner rather than later and assess any risks more rationally.
Risk perception is well known to be heavily influenced by recent events witnessed and to a lesser extent even reported. It's therefore only to be expected that people's behaviour is likely to be changed, at least while the incident is still fresh in the memory. Nobody can really know to what extent it will affect them personally unless or until it actually happens. I'd like to think though that I'd be able to move on from such a knee jerk reaction sooner rather than later and assess any risks more rationally.
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In reply to ebdon:
My recent accident (hopefully the only serious one I will have in my climbing life) had made me think a bit like this too - I will probably be most reluctant to continue soloing (rock or winter). I realise that having a competent and cool-headed partner with me (Cheers, Scott!) could have been the difference between rescue and a full recovery (which I have just about achieved) and situations that don't bear thinking about (indeed it's making me a bit queasy right now).
M
> It made me stop soloing in winter (mostly)
My recent accident (hopefully the only serious one I will have in my climbing life) had made me think a bit like this too - I will probably be most reluctant to continue soloing (rock or winter). I realise that having a competent and cool-headed partner with me (Cheers, Scott!) could have been the difference between rescue and a full recovery (which I have just about achieved) and situations that don't bear thinking about (indeed it's making me a bit queasy right now).
M
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
In over 50 years I've witnessed at first hand 2 deaths and 5 or 6 accidents that resulted in serious injury. I knew personally 22 climbers who were killed climbing. I've had a fractured skull, a broken arm and frostbite and been involved in a couple of life or death incidents where I wasn't seriously hurt but my partner was and for a time it was touch and go that we would make it at all. All of this must have affected my brain as I still climb but have to admit that these days the bolts are very attractive.
Al
In over 50 years I've witnessed at first hand 2 deaths and 5 or 6 accidents that resulted in serious injury. I knew personally 22 climbers who were killed climbing. I've had a fractured skull, a broken arm and frostbite and been involved in a couple of life or death incidents where I wasn't seriously hurt but my partner was and for a time it was touch and go that we would make it at all. All of this must have affected my brain as I still climb but have to admit that these days the bolts are very attractive.
Al
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I've witnessed and been involved in the provision of first aid immediately following 2 serious accidents and broken an ankle bouldering indoors.
I have continued to climb bold trad routes with naff gear, sport routes and everything in between, although I'm not sure I'll ever climb at Chapel Point after the second accident. My confidence seems to come and go and it undid a huge amount of progress which I had made in developing my headgame for trad climbing to the extent that I can't pull hard next to gear.
I've witnessed and been involved in the provision of first aid immediately following 2 serious accidents and broken an ankle bouldering indoors.
I have continued to climb bold trad routes with naff gear, sport routes and everything in between, although I'm not sure I'll ever climb at Chapel Point after the second accident. My confidence seems to come and go and it undid a huge amount of progress which I had made in developing my headgame for trad climbing to the extent that I can't pull hard next to gear.
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I had an Alpine accident over a decade ago now. Helicoptered out on the end of a cable. I had to learn to walk again and had about 4 months physio. I went to the Dolomites the year after, and returned to the Alps 2 years later. First time I heard a large rockfall I thought it was coming for me (rockfall from above took me out in the accident) but I settled down as time went by. I don't even get the creaking in the winter now!
I had an Alpine accident over a decade ago now. Helicoptered out on the end of a cable. I had to learn to walk again and had about 4 months physio. I went to the Dolomites the year after, and returned to the Alps 2 years later. First time I heard a large rockfall I thought it was coming for me (rockfall from above took me out in the accident) but I settled down as time went by. I don't even get the creaking in the winter now!
Post edited at 23:43
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Unfortunately in my line of work, I see a lot of death (medical professional in various roles). This normally doesn't affect me as in some ways you become hardened. However a few years back I witnessed a climber in the Alps take a fatal fall into a crevasse which has left me feeling uneasy with heights/exposure which never bothered me before. It still doesn't stop me from climbing but I certainly feel more on edge.
As I often discuss with colleagues, it's when you start to personalise with a situation that it can often begin to affect you. Watching a fellow climber get injured or worse is never a nice thing however when the realisation that it really could have been you in their shoes it will often have consequences to the way you think. After all, we all accept the inherent risk of climbing / mountaineering but accept it almost by simply taking part but will always endeavour to reduce that risk where possible.
Unfortunately in my line of work, I see a lot of death (medical professional in various roles). This normally doesn't affect me as in some ways you become hardened. However a few years back I witnessed a climber in the Alps take a fatal fall into a crevasse which has left me feeling uneasy with heights/exposure which never bothered me before. It still doesn't stop me from climbing but I certainly feel more on edge.
As I often discuss with colleagues, it's when you start to personalise with a situation that it can often begin to affect you. Watching a fellow climber get injured or worse is never a nice thing however when the realisation that it really could have been you in their shoes it will often have consequences to the way you think. After all, we all accept the inherent risk of climbing / mountaineering but accept it almost by simply taking part but will always endeavour to reduce that risk where possible.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I had a serious fall a while back. A week later, lying in bed in Northern General Hospital, Sheffield, I looked out of the window at a crisp winter sky and thought, instinctively, What a great day for the grit. I realised in that moment that the fall hadn't actually affected my desire to climb. I'm much more of a rock climber than a mountaineer, but I was back in Chamonix the next summer. I put it down to being too superficial to feel things very deeply - although my mini epiphany in NGH may also have been influenced by the morphine I was on at the time! Whatever, I've carried on climbing in the low extremes, with a degree of boldness.
I had a serious fall a while back. A week later, lying in bed in Northern General Hospital, Sheffield, I looked out of the window at a crisp winter sky and thought, instinctively, What a great day for the grit. I realised in that moment that the fall hadn't actually affected my desire to climb. I'm much more of a rock climber than a mountaineer, but I was back in Chamonix the next summer. I put it down to being too superficial to feel things very deeply - although my mini epiphany in NGH may also have been influenced by the morphine I was on at the time! Whatever, I've carried on climbing in the low extremes, with a degree of boldness.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Personally I haven't experienced anything truly serious, but I had a few lucky escapes. (who doesn't).
I've noticed that the main thing is to get back on the horse, and the sooner the better. I've had a narrow escape landing a glider in a field that really wasn't suitable, and didn't fly for 9 months after that due to other reasons. I noticed I became a lot less confident and didn't enjoy it as much. My sister experienced a deadly glider crash and hasn't flown herself after that.
I was hit on the back by a sizable rock late last year, which was painful but ok. I did a few sport routes the same and next day to not get scared doing it. Perhaps not such a good idea since I cracked a vertebrae, but at least I'm not scared . Same thing 2 weeks ago with my first lead fall and grounder, my buddy made sure I was ok and kicked me up to go do another 2 routes.
Moral of the story, get back on the horse as soon as you can!
Personally I haven't experienced anything truly serious, but I had a few lucky escapes. (who doesn't).
I've noticed that the main thing is to get back on the horse, and the sooner the better. I've had a narrow escape landing a glider in a field that really wasn't suitable, and didn't fly for 9 months after that due to other reasons. I noticed I became a lot less confident and didn't enjoy it as much. My sister experienced a deadly glider crash and hasn't flown herself after that.
I was hit on the back by a sizable rock late last year, which was painful but ok. I did a few sport routes the same and next day to not get scared doing it. Perhaps not such a good idea since I cracked a vertebrae, but at least I'm not scared . Same thing 2 weeks ago with my first lead fall and grounder, my buddy made sure I was ok and kicked me up to go do another 2 routes.
Moral of the story, get back on the horse as soon as you can!
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I have seen way more car crashes (and some fatal), than climbing accidents. But I still drive and i still climb. We have to remove emotion and consider the cold statistics rather than succumbing to Survivorship bias.
With climbing, accidents can be deeply traumatic, but the fact is that most climbs, including solos, are pleasurable events.
> If you have had a serious accident, or witnessed a death, would you stop mountaineering?
I have seen way more car crashes (and some fatal), than climbing accidents. But I still drive and i still climb. We have to remove emotion and consider the cold statistics rather than succumbing to Survivorship bias.
With climbing, accidents can be deeply traumatic, but the fact is that most climbs, including solos, are pleasurable events.
Post edited at 09:50
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Like many people who've done a lot of climbing over many years, I've had the odd accident, and a few (very) near misses. I've also witnessed bad accidents and death at close quarters, and lost many friends to the mountains.
Yet whilst each incident and loss forced a pause for reflection, reassessment and sometimes recalibration of risk factors, it invariably wore off after a few weeks, offset by the passion and desire to climb irrespective of the blindingly obvious risks.
However, when the trajectory of my climbing began to start to plateau, and other things became important in my life, it all changed.
A 5 day epic retreat through a ferocious storm on the Eiger NF (my second, and the 5 most harrowing days of my life) which almost cost me my life, changed everything.
We managed to get back down - due primarily to my remarkable partner - and ended up spending a couple of weeks in hospital with frostbite, broken ribs, shattered cheek bone, broken nose, and other injuries, and at the end of it, I came out with 2 toes less than I went in with.
I never climbed another route for the following 25 years.
I've been back climbing again for about 5 years now, and loving it all once more, although my risk meter is now calibrated for happily married man, father and old fart, as opposed to wild eyed ambitious young turk
However, had my Eiger epic happened when my trajectory was still on the up, and without other distractions, who knows? After the wounds had healed and the nightmares stopped, I might have gone back for round 3?
Like many people who've done a lot of climbing over many years, I've had the odd accident, and a few (very) near misses. I've also witnessed bad accidents and death at close quarters, and lost many friends to the mountains.
Yet whilst each incident and loss forced a pause for reflection, reassessment and sometimes recalibration of risk factors, it invariably wore off after a few weeks, offset by the passion and desire to climb irrespective of the blindingly obvious risks.
However, when the trajectory of my climbing began to start to plateau, and other things became important in my life, it all changed.
A 5 day epic retreat through a ferocious storm on the Eiger NF (my second, and the 5 most harrowing days of my life) which almost cost me my life, changed everything.
We managed to get back down - due primarily to my remarkable partner - and ended up spending a couple of weeks in hospital with frostbite, broken ribs, shattered cheek bone, broken nose, and other injuries, and at the end of it, I came out with 2 toes less than I went in with.
I never climbed another route for the following 25 years.
I've been back climbing again for about 5 years now, and loving it all once more, although my risk meter is now calibrated for happily married man, father and old fart, as opposed to wild eyed ambitious young turk
However, had my Eiger epic happened when my trajectory was still on the up, and without other distractions, who knows? After the wounds had healed and the nightmares stopped, I might have gone back for round 3?
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I don't really understand the dislikes; seems a perfectly relevant question for a forum dedicated to discussing climbing(?)
I don't really understand the dislikes; seems a perfectly relevant question for a forum dedicated to discussing climbing(?)
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In reply to Danm79:
I agree. It seems bizarre to give dislikes for such a post.
Maybe some of the dislikers would explain their reasoning?
In answer to the OP, no it never stopped me, but but did make me more cautious. When it's someone you know it hits particularly hard. I've lost quite a few friends in half a century of climbing and mountaineering. Now I'm approaching my twilight years I often think of them and miss them. It would be good if they were still with us and we could yarn about the old days when we were young. They will always be young, but I feel sad that they have missed so much that life's great adventure gives us.
I agree. It seems bizarre to give dislikes for such a post.
Maybe some of the dislikers would explain their reasoning?
In answer to the OP, no it never stopped me, but but did make me more cautious. When it's someone you know it hits particularly hard. I've lost quite a few friends in half a century of climbing and mountaineering. Now I'm approaching my twilight years I often think of them and miss them. It would be good if they were still with us and we could yarn about the old days when we were young. They will always be young, but I feel sad that they have missed so much that life's great adventure gives us.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Not a climbing/ mountaineering accident, but I had a pretty serious skiing accident (snowboard through right lower leg, which caused exactly as much damage as you'd imagine, and probably rather more blood loss). Not only did I spend the next 4 years desperate to get back on skis (which I have since done on several holidays), but it indirectly led to my starting mountaineering in the Alps etc. Funnily enough also started cycling as part of my recovery, so really, the accident has got a lot to answer for.
Similarly to Lion Bakes talking about reaction to rockfall, I found that on busy pistes, and especially ones with lots of snowboarders on, I would see everybody above as heading straight in my direction, ready to slice into me with their skis/ boards. This was really unexpected, as I had thought I was psychologically unaffected by the whole thing.
Not a climbing/ mountaineering accident, but I had a pretty serious skiing accident (snowboard through right lower leg, which caused exactly as much damage as you'd imagine, and probably rather more blood loss). Not only did I spend the next 4 years desperate to get back on skis (which I have since done on several holidays), but it indirectly led to my starting mountaineering in the Alps etc. Funnily enough also started cycling as part of my recovery, so really, the accident has got a lot to answer for.
Similarly to Lion Bakes talking about reaction to rockfall, I found that on busy pistes, and especially ones with lots of snowboarders on, I would see everybody above as heading straight in my direction, ready to slice into me with their skis/ boards. This was really unexpected, as I had thought I was psychologically unaffected by the whole thing.
In reply to Trangia:
Dislikes, perhaps maybe because a lot of people live in denial? Don't realise they are mere mortals?
People dont like to think about bad stuff.....
Dislikes, perhaps maybe because a lot of people live in denial? Don't realise they are mere mortals?
People dont like to think about bad stuff.....
Post edited at 14:53
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Well, my experience of accidents etc comes mainly from cycling in races and in London, been involved in accidents/crashes both on the road and in races, known people seriously injured (life changing accidents ) and seen fatal accidents but still ride, although stopped racing after a nasty crash, more because I lost that edge you need for taking risks in races. So I guess the answer would be probably no, but would assess each situation more carefully.
Well, my experience of accidents etc comes mainly from cycling in races and in London, been involved in accidents/crashes both on the road and in races, known people seriously injured (life changing accidents ) and seen fatal accidents but still ride, although stopped racing after a nasty crash, more because I lost that edge you need for taking risks in races. So I guess the answer would be probably no, but would assess each situation more carefully.
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
In both cases, no.
Watched my brother fall 50m or so down an icey slope, break his leg and knock himself out on our first winter outing - thought he was dead (he didn't come round for a good 5 mins). Shook me up pretty badly, so much so that I essentially shook myself off the mountain (in panic) and fell about 20m, hit my head and passed out, blood everywhere. That was a fun evening crawling down the back of Ben Moore in the dark.
A few years I watched a guy fall down the matterhorn and get helecoptered off (apparently he had a heart attack - and died). Again very shaken - Had a little cry when I got down, and then got very drunk.
Neither have stopped me and, to take a positive from the experience, both gave me a massive appreciation for the risks involved and how to manage them.
In both cases, no.
Watched my brother fall 50m or so down an icey slope, break his leg and knock himself out on our first winter outing - thought he was dead (he didn't come round for a good 5 mins). Shook me up pretty badly, so much so that I essentially shook myself off the mountain (in panic) and fell about 20m, hit my head and passed out, blood everywhere. That was a fun evening crawling down the back of Ben Moore in the dark.
A few years I watched a guy fall down the matterhorn and get helecoptered off (apparently he had a heart attack - and died). Again very shaken - Had a little cry when I got down, and then got very drunk.
Neither have stopped me and, to take a positive from the experience, both gave me a massive appreciation for the risks involved and how to manage them.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I've witnessed one climber in Scotland fall to his death on the next climb and my partner and I were unable to assist (he was alive when he hit the deck) with any rescue as we were involved in our own retreat of the climb we'd spent hours trying to complete.
I've had my own share of minor falls and been present at a few other accidents.
I think I was a little more nervous 1st time out again following the fall, but that soon passed. I couldn't imagine anything putting me off. I guess I'm lucky that way.
I've witnessed one climber in Scotland fall to his death on the next climb and my partner and I were unable to assist (he was alive when he hit the deck) with any rescue as we were involved in our own retreat of the climb we'd spent hours trying to complete.
I've had my own share of minor falls and been present at a few other accidents.
I think I was a little more nervous 1st time out again following the fall, but that soon passed. I couldn't imagine anything putting me off. I guess I'm lucky that way.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
No and no , neither of these being speculative answers...but I reckon given the habitual users of this site are all likely to be fairly committed climbing folk that you are dealing with a heavily biased population. If I'd given up climbing I doubt I'd be reading this.
No and no , neither of these being speculative answers...but I reckon given the habitual users of this site are all likely to be fairly committed climbing folk that you are dealing with a heavily biased population. If I'd given up climbing I doubt I'd be reading this.
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In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Of course, those who have stopped are likely not to read this thread, so there's a bias here!!
Anyway: yes witness from close-up, as a teenager, not nice. Did not stop me, but made me extremely careful.
I hate every small mistake I make, am not looking for epics, and would not be proud of them.
Not pushing grades, really. I do enjoy to look back on a climbing day and think: 'you did that safe, and made all the right decisions', even if that means turning back.
Of course, those who have stopped are likely not to read this thread, so there's a bias here!!
Anyway: yes witness from close-up, as a teenager, not nice. Did not stop me, but made me extremely careful.
I hate every small mistake I make, am not looking for epics, and would not be proud of them.
Not pushing grades, really. I do enjoy to look back on a climbing day and think: 'you did that safe, and made all the right decisions', even if that means turning back.
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In reply to Goucho:
Hi Goucho, apologies if this has been covered before but did you write a book on your 5 day epic retreat? Sounds like it would make fascinating reading?
Hi Goucho, apologies if this has been covered before but did you write a book on your 5 day epic retreat? Sounds like it would make fascinating reading?
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In reply to WaterMonkey:
One of the best ever UKC posts was about the Eiger North Face:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=608172
...with a very good contribution from Goucho.
> Hi Goucho, apologies if this has been covered before but did you write a book on your 5 day epic retreat? Sounds like it would make fascinating reading?
One of the best ever UKC posts was about the Eiger North Face:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=608172
...with a very good contribution from Goucho.
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In reply to Danm79:
Dislikes are an inevitable by-product of expressing anything other than a bland platitude, and sometimes they get them too! Anonymous, unattributable, no rationale or explanation required or delivered. Clicked with feeling or for the hell of it. By some margin the worst feature on UKC - I'd just learn to ignore.
> I don't really understand the dislikes; seems a perfectly relevant question for a forum dedicated to discussing climbing(?)
Dislikes are an inevitable by-product of expressing anything other than a bland platitude, and sometimes they get them too! Anonymous, unattributable, no rationale or explanation required or delivered. Clicked with feeling or for the hell of it. By some margin the worst feature on UKC - I'd just learn to ignore.
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In reply to Goucho:
Hang on, Goucho... that would mean your epic Eiger retreat was mid 80s, and yet I distinctly remember you saying you made a winter ascent of the Walker in the late 80s.
> I never climbed another route for the following 25 years.
Hang on, Goucho... that would mean your epic Eiger retreat was mid 80s, and yet I distinctly remember you saying you made a winter ascent of the Walker in the late 80s.
In reply to jon:
Just checked diaries jon, and second Eiger retreat was summer 87', Walker is logged as March/April 87' - so actually mid to late 80's, not late 80's. And looking at those dates, it might not actually even technically class as a genuine winter ascent either - though it certainly climbed and felt like one?
However, it does mean my 25 year break was on fact more like a 23 year break.
> Hang on, Goucho... that would mean your epic Eiger retreat was mid 80s, and yet I distinctly remember you saying you made a winter ascent of the Walker in the late 80s.
Just checked diaries jon, and second Eiger retreat was summer 87', Walker is logged as March/April 87' - so actually mid to late 80's, not late 80's. And looking at those dates, it might not actually even technically class as a genuine winter ascent either - though it certainly climbed and felt like one?
However, it does mean my 25 year break was on fact more like a 23 year break.
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In reply to Jamie B:
Totally agree. It is the quick and dirty equivalent of dismissing a post without any supporting argument. I'd be quite happy for the buttons to remain but to lose the anonymity.
> Dislikes are an inevitable by-product of expressing anything other than a bland platitude, and sometimes they get them too! Anonymous, unattributable, no rationale or explanation required or delivered. Clicked with feeling or for the hell of it. By some margin the worst feature on UKC - I'd just learn to ignore.
Totally agree. It is the quick and dirty equivalent of dismissing a post without any supporting argument. I'd be quite happy for the buttons to remain but to lose the anonymity.
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In reply to Goucho:
Your experience was very much like mine but sounds a little more serious if only because mine only lasted 3 days. Mid 80's good weather forecast but as wrong as it could be. Having said that the rest of the area was OK it was just the conditions on the face. I've witnessed this from the ground as well, it's quite surreal, almost clear skies with a storm cloud with thunder and lightning just hanging in the curvature of the face, sometimes for days.
Al
Your experience was very much like mine but sounds a little more serious if only because mine only lasted 3 days. Mid 80's good weather forecast but as wrong as it could be. Having said that the rest of the area was OK it was just the conditions on the face. I've witnessed this from the ground as well, it's quite surreal, almost clear skies with a storm cloud with thunder and lightning just hanging in the curvature of the face, sometimes for days.
Al
In reply to Removed User:
Agreed. And it will stop people having to put "I haven't disliked your post" when responding to a post with a dislike.
*I haven't disliked your post.
> Totally agree. It is the quick and dirty equivalent of dismissing a post without any supporting argument. I'd be quite happy for the buttons to remain but to lose the anonymity.
Agreed. And it will stop people having to put "I haven't disliked your post" when responding to a post with a dislike.
*I haven't disliked your post.
Post edited at 17:45
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In reply to GridNorth:
My second Eiger backdown took 3 minutes and the third about 3 hours.
Quite long enough
Respect for three and five days worth.
> Your experience was very much like mine but sounds a little more serious if only because mine only lasted 3 days.
My second Eiger backdown took 3 minutes and the third about 3 hours.
Quite long enough
Respect for three and five days worth.
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In reply to Shani:
OMG.... that's a level of over-sensitivity comparable with all those beating themselves up about mystery dislikes. There seems to be a whole layer of etiquette and paranoia associated with the like/dislike function.... if you want it. I choose to ignore.
> Agreed. And it will stop people having to put "I haven't disliked your post" when responding to a post with a dislike.
OMG.... that's a level of over-sensitivity comparable with all those beating themselves up about mystery dislikes. There seems to be a whole layer of etiquette and paranoia associated with the like/dislike function.... if you want it. I choose to ignore.
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In reply to Jamie B:
Ha ha. You mention over-sensitivity in a post you start with "OMG...".
You also need to read my post again but with your irony meter turned to "on".
> OMG.... that's a level of over-sensitivity comparable with all those beating themselves up about mystery dislikes. There seems to be a whole layer of etiquette and paranoia associated with the like/dislike function.... if you want it. I choose to ignore.
Ha ha. You mention over-sensitivity in a post you start with "OMG...".
You also need to read my post again but with your irony meter turned to "on".
Post edited at 19:51
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1
In reply to GridNorth:
Yep, everything about the face is designed to cause misery!
You read about, and hear people talking of the 'curtain' closing. In that respect it's like the curtain in a crematorium - you don't want to be on the wrong side when it does
> Your experience was very much like mine but sounds a little more serious if only because mine only lasted 3 days. Mid 80's good weather forecast but as wrong as it could be. Having said that the rest of the area was OK it was just the conditions on the face. I've witnessed this from the ground as well, it's quite surreal, almost clear skies with a storm cloud with thunder and lightning just hanging in the curvature of the face, sometimes for days.
> Al
Yep, everything about the face is designed to cause misery!
You read about, and hear people talking of the 'curtain' closing. In that respect it's like the curtain in a crematorium - you don't want to be on the wrong side when it does
Post edited at 21:10
2
In reply to Shani:
Touche! I *did* hit Like on that one!
> Ha ha. You mention over-sensitivity in a post you start with "OMG...".
Touche! I *did* hit Like on that one!
In reply to Jamie B:
I've disliked this post but only for doubly-ironic purposes.
Consider it a Like.
> Touche! I *did* hit Like on that one!
I've disliked this post but only for doubly-ironic purposes.
Consider it a Like.
Post edited at 20:38
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Not witnessed a death mountaineering however the disappearance and death of a couple that myself and my (climbing partner) girlfriend were acquainted with caused us to reassess the situation and ask some tough questions. We climb and we just had a successful season in the alps.
For me climbing on the Ben with a different partner only 2 days after they were pronounced missing made me call off the climb at the base of the route, some incredibly grim thoughts were running through my head.
Not witnessed a death mountaineering however the disappearance and death of a couple that myself and my (climbing partner) girlfriend were acquainted with caused us to reassess the situation and ask some tough questions. We climb and we just had a successful season in the alps.
For me climbing on the Ben with a different partner only 2 days after they were pronounced missing made me call off the climb at the base of the route, some incredibly grim thoughts were running through my head.
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I don't really do scary stuff. But if I witnessed something like that at a crag I imagine I would find it very difficult indeed to continue as before.
I don't really do scary stuff. But if I witnessed something like that at a crag I imagine I would find it very difficult indeed to continue as before.
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