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Hi I'm looking at getting my first set of quick draws I was thinking of getting dmm sport or petzl spirit any reviews on these or is there any other I should be looking at?
Thanks
Shane
Thanks
Shane
In reply to Shane jones:
Dmm alpha sport.
Really nice clipping action, solid and sturdy.
Haven't used petzl spirit, but on appearance, I'd say the alphas are better designed for sport. And cheaper too.
Dmm do a five draw sport pack 3x12 and 2x18. Pick u two or three of those packs and you're set.
Dmm alpha sport.
Really nice clipping action, solid and sturdy.
Haven't used petzl spirit, but on appearance, I'd say the alphas are better designed for sport. And cheaper too.
Dmm do a five draw sport pack 3x12 and 2x18. Pick u two or three of those packs and you're set.
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In reply to Shane jones:
Is saving money an important factor for you, or would you rather get 'better' stuff (bearing in mind that pretty much any quickdraw will do)?
I assume quickdraws for sport - are you likely to do trad, and if so would you rather get a set of quickdraws that will do both OK rather than ending up with two sets of quickdraws (which is quite nice, if non-essential!)?
I think the DMM Aeros (with the new gates taken from the Alphas) can be a good budget option for sport; I have the DMM Alphas which are really nice.
Is saving money an important factor for you, or would you rather get 'better' stuff (bearing in mind that pretty much any quickdraw will do)?
I assume quickdraws for sport - are you likely to do trad, and if so would you rather get a set of quickdraws that will do both OK rather than ending up with two sets of quickdraws (which is quite nice, if non-essential!)?
I think the DMM Aeros (with the new gates taken from the Alphas) can be a good budget option for sport; I have the DMM Alphas which are really nice.
Post edited at 13:27
In reply to Shane jones:
Unless you're super keen or super rich, I'd get some cheaper ones. The DMM Alphas are great, but I'm not sure they make so much difference over cheaper alternatives. When mine do wear out, I'll be getting cheaper draws I think. Unless I can get a set at trade price again!
EDIT: And if you intend to use a clip-stick, some work better than others, for the Beta stick anyway. The Alphas have a groove on the gate to make it work better, some solid gate biners don't have this.
Unless you're super keen or super rich, I'd get some cheaper ones. The DMM Alphas are great, but I'm not sure they make so much difference over cheaper alternatives. When mine do wear out, I'll be getting cheaper draws I think. Unless I can get a set at trade price again!
EDIT: And if you intend to use a clip-stick, some work better than others, for the Beta stick anyway. The Alphas have a groove on the gate to make it work better, some solid gate biners don't have this.
Post edited at 14:06
In reply to Shane jones:
DMM Shadow sport draws are for me the ultimate. Same easyclip gate as the alphas but they have a straight spine, which just seems to sit much much better in the palm of my hand.
DMM Shadow sport draws are for me the ultimate. Same easyclip gate as the alphas but they have a straight spine, which just seems to sit much much better in the palm of my hand.
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
I'd agree with this - in fact I have found the 'deep basket' of the Alphas on the bolt end make stripping a route a little more tricky than a shadow or aero would be. The deep basket is great on the rope end as it makes it nigh on impossible for the rope to unclip (very inlikely anyway).
The best thing about DMM solid gate krabs are that they all have that really good bent gate so you don't need to shell out on the most expensive to get that good clipping action.
I would definitely go for DMM kit whenever possible though - it is really well made but a bunch of great people and its all made in Wales. When I replace my sport 'draws I'm going to get Aeros or Shadows for sure.
I'd agree with this - in fact I have found the 'deep basket' of the Alphas on the bolt end make stripping a route a little more tricky than a shadow or aero would be. The deep basket is great on the rope end as it makes it nigh on impossible for the rope to unclip (very inlikely anyway).
The best thing about DMM solid gate krabs are that they all have that really good bent gate so you don't need to shell out on the most expensive to get that good clipping action.
I would definitely go for DMM kit whenever possible though - it is really well made but a bunch of great people and its all made in Wales. When I replace my sport 'draws I'm going to get Aeros or Shadows for sure.
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In reply to Duncan Campbell:
Are the Petzl crew not so great?
> it is really well made but a bunch of great people
Are the Petzl crew not so great?
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Cheese-eating... I mean sure they are probably alright. I guess I know that the DMM team are sound I cannot say that for sure about the Petzl people. Plus not sure where Petzl gear is made?
Cheese-eating... I mean sure they are probably alright. I guess I know that the DMM team are sound I cannot say that for sure about the Petzl people. Plus not sure where Petzl gear is made?
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In reply to Shane jones:
I use a mix of DMM Aeros and Petzl Djinns. Not the most expensive offering from either firm but I find them both really good. Excellent clipping action on both; durability on the DMM's is also excellent, far better than some other brands I bought at about the same time. (Haven't had the Petzl's for long yet)
I use a mix of DMM Aeros and Petzl Djinns. Not the most expensive offering from either firm but I find them both really good. Excellent clipping action on both; durability on the DMM's is also excellent, far better than some other brands I bought at about the same time. (Haven't had the Petzl's for long yet)
wow thanks for all the quick replies. I want the draws purely for sport and once I get in to trad I'll think about getting some trad ones as my mate has trad gear. The dmms seem to be easier to get hold over in the shops.
Where do a good deals on these draws? Also would I need to get between 10 and 12 draws just to be safe?
Where do a good deals on these draws? Also would I need to get between 10 and 12 draws just to be safe?
In reply to Shane jones: FWIW I've got DMM Alpha Sports and I'm very happy with them although if money weren't an issue I'd have gone for Petzl Spirits.
In reply to Shane jones:
Depends what/where you're climbing. In my experience in the UK it's rare to need more than 10, but more can be better if you end up using two opposed to toprope on. The longer sport routes tend to be harder though, so if you're pushing through the harder 6's you will want more.
In the alps/spain/big sport destinations pitches are much longer, and sometimes you wonder if all your draws will be enough. Then you're glad to have 12 at least. If you have a double set it allows you to link shorter pitches together, which is really useful when you're climbing with a 70m rope up 20m pitches. If your partner brings a set you're all good though.
Long answer short - get 12. And get mostly longer ones, it's rare you want a short draw, but very common you want a long one.
> Also would I need to get between 10 and 12 draws just to be safe?
Depends what/where you're climbing. In my experience in the UK it's rare to need more than 10, but more can be better if you end up using two opposed to toprope on. The longer sport routes tend to be harder though, so if you're pushing through the harder 6's you will want more.
In the alps/spain/big sport destinations pitches are much longer, and sometimes you wonder if all your draws will be enough. Then you're glad to have 12 at least. If you have a double set it allows you to link shorter pitches together, which is really useful when you're climbing with a 70m rope up 20m pitches. If your partner brings a set you're all good though.
Long answer short - get 12. And get mostly longer ones, it's rare you want a short draw, but very common you want a long one.
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
Interesting , if we are talking sport I would say the opposite is true. I carry mostly 12cm with just a couple of 18/20cm and a sling draw which I don't seem to have used in a long time and I have never had a problem. For trad my draws are mostly 18/20cms.
Al
> Long answer short - get 12. And get mostly longer ones, it's rare you want a short draw, but very common you want a long one.
Interesting , if we are talking sport I would say the opposite is true. I carry mostly 12cm with just a couple of 18/20cm and a sling draw which I don't seem to have used in a long time and I have never had a problem. For trad my draws are mostly 18/20cms.
Al
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In reply to GridNorth:
Maybe it's just the fact that I don't climb very hard but I seem to get on a lot of routes with bulges, zig zags etc. Even just for stopping rope drag on longer routes. I have a selection of short, medium and 2 extra long QD's, I always find myself reaching for the long ones and hoping there aren't any more overhanging bits.
If you climb straight lines up tiny crimps like Chris Sharma I doubt you'll have the same problem.
Maybe it's just the fact that I don't climb very hard but I seem to get on a lot of routes with bulges, zig zags etc. Even just for stopping rope drag on longer routes. I have a selection of short, medium and 2 extra long QD's, I always find myself reaching for the long ones and hoping there aren't any more overhanging bits.
If you climb straight lines up tiny crimps like Chris Sharma I doubt you'll have the same problem.
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
Where are you climbing? We are talking sport, right? I've climbed all over the world and hardly ever experienced what you describe. I don't climb hard, only in the 6's but manage fine even on 40 metre pitches. The only place I can think of where longer QD's could be useful is Ailfroide but even then I would still take my standard set.
Al
Where are you climbing? We are talking sport, right? I've climbed all over the world and hardly ever experienced what you describe. I don't climb hard, only in the 6's but manage fine even on 40 metre pitches. The only place I can think of where longer QD's could be useful is Ailfroide but even then I would still take my standard set.
Al
In reply to Shane jones:
>I want the draws purely for sport and once I get in to trad I'll think about getting some trad ones as my mate has trad gear.
Definitely a good idea if you're doing a significant amount of both. For sport you want short fat nylon tapes - better for grabbing when you're working a route - and for trad you want nice thin, floppy dyneema tapes that won't lift wires out.
>I want the draws purely for sport and once I get in to trad I'll think about getting some trad ones as my mate has trad gear.
Definitely a good idea if you're doing a significant amount of both. For sport you want short fat nylon tapes - better for grabbing when you're working a route - and for trad you want nice thin, floppy dyneema tapes that won't lift wires out.
In reply to GridNorth:
I've always used short draws for sport, but last year in Spain I was climbing for a few weeks with someone who used a full rack of 20cm draws and I rather liked it - reduces the faff on wandering routes and on dead straight lines there's no real loss.
> Interesting , if we are talking sport I would say the opposite is true. I carry mostly 12cm with just a couple of 18/20cm and a sling draw which I don't seem to have used in a long time and I have never had a problem. For trad my draws are mostly 18/20cms.
I've always used short draws for sport, but last year in Spain I was climbing for a few weeks with someone who used a full rack of 20cm draws and I rather liked it - reduces the faff on wandering routes and on dead straight lines there's no real loss.
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In reply to Ciro:
It's not a big deal but one issue I could foresee, in fact I have experienced, is that when you want to lower on your own gear in order to save wear and tear on the situ krabs/rings, as every conscientious climber should do, the draw will extend beyond the situ gear making it more difficult to rig in that way. In these situations I would normally clip the situ gear when I arrive, stick a short draw on the top bolt and clip the rope into both with my draw on the top bolt taking the load.
Al
It's not a big deal but one issue I could foresee, in fact I have experienced, is that when you want to lower on your own gear in order to save wear and tear on the situ krabs/rings, as every conscientious climber should do, the draw will extend beyond the situ gear making it more difficult to rig in that way. In these situations I would normally clip the situ gear when I arrive, stick a short draw on the top bolt and clip the rope into both with my draw on the top bolt taking the load.
Al
Post edited at 16:19
In reply to GridNorth:
Well a lot of the easy stuff at Portland or Swanage for example climbs under and on top of ledges. I can think of some slate lines I climbed which had a few moves going left and right, or over a bulge. Last time I was in mid Wales I climbed a wandering route. With long sport draws it's only a few cm so it won't always make a monumental difference, but I can think of more reasons to have longer ones than shorter. And you don't have to have ONLY long ones, just get a decent selection.
Well a lot of the easy stuff at Portland or Swanage for example climbs under and on top of ledges. I can think of some slate lines I climbed which had a few moves going left and right, or over a bulge. Last time I was in mid Wales I climbed a wandering route. With long sport draws it's only a few cm so it won't always make a monumental difference, but I can think of more reasons to have longer ones than shorter. And you don't have to have ONLY long ones, just get a decent selection.
In reply to GridNorth:
I think it depends a bit on the routes, I've climbed quite a few 30m sports route where the rope drag would be horrid on mostly short draws. If you are on short (e.g. 10m ish) routes then I doubt it matters much...
> Interesting , if we are talking sport I would say the opposite is true. I carry mostly 12cm with just a couple of 18/20cm and a sling draw which I don't seem to have used in a long time and I have never had a problem. For trad my draws are mostly 18/20cms.
I think it depends a bit on the routes, I've climbed quite a few 30m sports route where the rope drag would be horrid on mostly short draws. If you are on short (e.g. 10m ish) routes then I doubt it matters much...
In reply to springfall2008:
That goes without saying but I just can't think of many routes I've done where 2 or 3 longer QD's didn't solve the problem.
Al
> I think it depends a bit on the routes, I've climbed quite a few 30m sports route where the rope drag would be horrid on mostly short draws. If you are on short (e.g. 10m ish) routes then I doubt it matters much...
That goes without saying but I just can't think of many routes I've done where 2 or 3 longer QD's didn't solve the problem.
Al
In reply to Shane jones:
Aside from the lowest clips, I generally use long (25cm) extenders throughout sport routes - if I'm at my limit, and high enough to avoid a ground fall, pulling up a little less rope can make all the difference.
Aside from the lowest clips, I generally use long (25cm) extenders throughout sport routes - if I'm at my limit, and high enough to avoid a ground fall, pulling up a little less rope can make all the difference.
In reply to GridNorth:
Aside from the lowest clips, I generally use long (25cm) extenders throughout sport routes - if I'm at my limit, and high enough to avoid a ground fall, pulling up a little less rope can make all the difference. Minimises rope drag too. Fat hard-wearing nylon tapes and clean noses are a must too for ease of working and stripping. Not much to choose between Alpha Sports and Spirits; the Wild Country Protons have impressed too whenever I've used them.
> Interesting , if we are talking sport I would say the opposite is true. I carry mostly 12cm with just a couple of 18/20cm and a sling draw which I don't seem to have used in a long time and I have never had a problem. For trad my draws are mostly 18/20cms.
Aside from the lowest clips, I generally use long (25cm) extenders throughout sport routes - if I'm at my limit, and high enough to avoid a ground fall, pulling up a little less rope can make all the difference. Minimises rope drag too. Fat hard-wearing nylon tapes and clean noses are a must too for ease of working and stripping. Not much to choose between Alpha Sports and Spirits; the Wild Country Protons have impressed too whenever I've used them.
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
I would be willing to change but I've found my method has worked so far throughout Europe but I only climb in the 6's with the odd 7a thrown in when I'm firing on all cylinders.
Al
I would be willing to change but I've found my method has worked so far throughout Europe but I only climb in the 6's with the odd 7a thrown in when I'm firing on all cylinders.
Al
In think how ever many I get 10 or 12 I'll go half 12cm half 18cm just to be a good mixture. Also with PAS is there a stand out one or are they prity much the same?
In reply to Shane jones:
The ones I know of are the Grivel Daisy Chain (poor naming IMO as each loop is fully rated unlike typical daisy chains) and the Metolious PAS but I'm not convinced they are necessary. I have used a Grivel one when ice climbing and they can be handy for multiple abseils but I've never felt the need for one on a sports climb. It's just something else to carry and they can get in the way a bit on the harness.
Al
The ones I know of are the Grivel Daisy Chain (poor naming IMO as each loop is fully rated unlike typical daisy chains) and the Metolious PAS but I'm not convinced they are necessary. I have used a Grivel one when ice climbing and they can be handy for multiple abseils but I've never felt the need for one on a sports climb. It's just something else to carry and they can get in the way a bit on the harness.
Al
In reply to Shane jones:
We use these and think they are excellent.
http://dmmclimbing.com/products/shield/
We use these and think they are excellent.
http://dmmclimbing.com/products/shield/
In reply to icnoble:
For sport, those thin dyneema slings are shite. Too thin to comfortably hang from, biners are OK though (but might not work that well with clip sticks).
For sport, those thin dyneema slings are shite. Too thin to comfortably hang from, biners are OK though (but might not work that well with clip sticks).
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In reply to Shane jones:
I go fully over the top with a 60cm skinny dyneema sling and a Phantom screwgate. Most people just use a couple of quickdraws.
> Also with PAS is there a stand out one or are they prity much the same?
I go fully over the top with a 60cm skinny dyneema sling and a Phantom screwgate. Most people just use a couple of quickdraws.
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thank you all for the information I bought myself the petzl spirits in the end I got a really good deal on them that made them cheaper than the dmm sports, Also got a chance to use them on Monday at castle inn for my first lead climb. Definitely got the climbing bug now, also off to the lakes this weekend to find somewhere to climb there.
Post edited at 20:33
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