UKC

Just started trad and love it. the only thing is my gear keeps falling out. Any tips for a reasonably strong boulderer to get better a placing gear

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

Don't be afraid to tug on it, proper hard, in all directions.

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

Reasonably strong boulderer?
You must be mistaken lol

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

Usually, the answer is to place gear from a position of comfort, so get yourself in the best rest position you can contrive before placeing the gear. Take a look at the gear after you have placed it and yes, give it a few trial tugs. Placeing gear with sewing machine legs and screaming arms is not going to go well, normally.

In reply to Jerome Curoy:
Climb more routes.

Experience counts, rather than a sacastic answer that is.
Trouble is, how do you know it's good unless you fall on it? But how to fall unless you know it's good?

If your climbing is better than your gear, or minerals, then I'd also suggest try to climb well protected routes, so you can lace it up. A little redundancy by over protecting the route will add safety.
And also pick long pitches or sea cliffs. If the ground is a long way away, you have to put a lot of effort in to hit it, and hitting the ground is even harder if it's deep water.
you may also want to examine why your gear falls out and when, is your belayer a trad leader and knows what they are doing too?


Oh, nearly forgot, don't climb over bridges, the may be resident trolls in situ.

In reply to Jerome Curoy:
practice placing gear and more practice on lower grades you are comfotable with then your confidence will increase for those routes just within you limits
ps practice placement

In reply to Jerome Curoy:
Start placing gear at ground level above a bouldering mat, then body weight it. If it fails no great harm done. If it holds look closely to see how it's holding, if it's a passive wedge type then look around the amount of contact and how well it is seated, try moving it to find its weakness' and directional strength.

For cams look at the camming angle, does it walk? try different lengths of extender and jiggle it to see if/how it moves out of alignment, if it is weighted will it bust a flake and the whole placement fail? Consider different rock types, gear behaves differently depending on the rock, eg in limestone nuts can rattle a bit and need either weighting or carefully extending but still be good and cams can pop out despite appearing well placed. Build up your confidence and experience in fail safe situations. Also experiment with unusual placements, upward loads, opposing and marginal placements.

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

There's many reasons why your gear might fall out (some outlined above, others such as quickdraws being too short, using a single rope where half ropes would be better, or just being inexperienced at gauging good placements).
I'd recommend either finding an experienced leader or instructor to critique your placements and ropework - so much easier to get started this way than trial and error.

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

Have you learned to place gear or are you just jumping in and going for it?

If you haven't learnt then getting some help so you understand the basic ideas of placements will really improve your trad.

Glad you're enjoying it BTW.

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

With practice you will know which nut to use before placing it As previously said if poss place from a rest position I always place gear in a nest of 2 or 3 especially if it's runout and crucial that it holds Tug to test staying in balance!

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

Good thread title! Just in case you're unsure, the first reply was a joke.

Apart from what others have said, make sure you extend the gear sufficiently to avoid rope drag (and/or the gear pulling out). Also make sure you aren't back-clipping the rope into the quickdraws (look this up if unsure). But the best advice is to go climbing with someone who knows what they're doing and who can actually help you at the crag rather than in cyberspace.

In reply to edunn:


Coincidentally that’s the exact same technique I use for another pleasurable activity

In reply to deacondeacon:

not that you sound like a complete cock or anything

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

Speaking as someone who was mostly a boulderer for ages, and then got into trad in the last couple of years:

It definitely helps to go on some sort of trad course for a few days (if you haven't already), just to get a solid grip on the basics.

Then it helps *hugely* to climb a lot with people who have much more trad experience than you do, and explicitly ask them for feedback and constructive criticism (on gear placements, but also on belay-building and everything else).

Practising gear placement at ground level as other people have suggested is also a great idea.

I have a theory that boulderers and sport climbers who get into trad are potentially a very high-risk group as n00bs because our strength and movement skills can waaaay outstrip our gear-placement skills.

So, while you're getting started (and especially while your gear keeps falling out ...), I think it's a smart idea to try to keep a nice big margin between what you're trying to lead and the limits of your physical ability (i.e. the stuff where you might be able to do all the moves fine -- but not protect yourself while you're doing it).

If you feel you need to test your movement skills to the limit and check that your strength is still there, that's the time to get the mat out.

In reply to kedvenc72:

Calm down love, it's a troll thread about a mate who climbs harder than anyone has a right to, living on the South east coast.
Although I am definitely a cock.

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

Get a good position, and absolutely bang the gear in. It wants to stay in. If it comes out, good because you didn't want to fall on that. Find something better.

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

1) For nuts: do they wiggle? Not a good placement! Try to place it the other way around. Sometimes (depending on the rock) you need to put it really deep in the crack and 'hook' it forward & down, as it were.

2) For friends: makes sure all 4 cams have good contact. Again, it may help to place it the other way around.

3) How far is your belayer away from the base? Your belayer needs to be really close in, otherwise there will be a pull outwards on the lowest piece, and the whole lot can zip out.

4) Try to set the lowest piece that it can take the outward force.

5) Have a good look how other folk place gear & build belays - I still learn new tricks....

6) Place bomber sets were you can stand comfortable. Here you have time to place nuts & stoppers. Keep your friends for quicker placement on harder ground.

6) A couple of time I have fallen on a poorly placed 'panic-runner'. In each case, they held, but popped out as soon as I took the weight off the rope.... but may not work the next time!

7) Take care!

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

If you want to spend some time testing placements try substituting a heavy rucsac for a living breathing body.

In reply to Jerome Curoy:


Do lots and lots of seconding for people who know how to place gear. Taking their gear out will teach you loads about putting your own in.

youtube.com/watch?v=0GMoLGCB1gQ&

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

Lead long(ish) trad routes comfortably within your ability and get an experienced trad climber to second you. He/she will be able to assess and comment on your placements by how easily they come out, also advise on which rope to clip, how long to extend them etc. As a reasonably strong boulderer you will soon be able to return the favour by taking them up trad routes above their normal lead grade

In reply to Jerome Curoy:

I would have a word with Mark and get him to teach you.

What he lacks in style, footwork & technique he makes up for in gear placements. Which is lucky really as the PunterWhale really does stress his gear to the limits

In reply to GrahamD:

Haha @sewing machine legs.

Heard it called disco legs..but that really made me laugh.