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It takes me upwards of 10 minutes to set up an abseiling rig, 20 minutes to change into my shoes and rack up, and often nearly half an hour to rig up a roped soloing ground anchor, or an end-of-pitch belay.
Climbing teams I see at the crag seem to spend a lot less time faffing about than me. Is this all because of the ground anchor, or am I unnecessarily slow? Does anybody do any kind of deliberate improvement to speed up the routines, or is it just a case of incidental improvement through regular climbing? What can I do to make the most of the time I spend at the crag?
Climbing teams I see at the crag seem to spend a lot less time faffing about than me. Is this all because of the ground anchor, or am I unnecessarily slow? Does anybody do any kind of deliberate improvement to speed up the routines, or is it just a case of incidental improvement through regular climbing? What can I do to make the most of the time I spend at the crag?
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In reply to 19G:
I find I do everything in half the time of most people and a quarter the time of real faffers. I don't understand what people do and they don't seem into notice time passing. I think if you do notice, you are well on your way to being quicker!
I find I do everything in half the time of most people and a quarter the time of real faffers. I don't understand what people do and they don't seem into notice time passing. I think if you do notice, you are well on your way to being quicker!
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In reply to 19G:
I find people faff because they arent confident in their ability.
I've been videoing with a gopro to get slicker for alps trip.
Lead self belay (grigri) then ab down cleaning gear- then re ascending rope (ropeman2 and grigri)
Video yourself. And basically stop faffing. Get good at what you need to, and don't do anything else. Unless you enjoy bimbleing
Competence breeds confidence my friend.
Have fun
I find people faff because they arent confident in their ability.
I've been videoing with a gopro to get slicker for alps trip.
Lead self belay (grigri) then ab down cleaning gear- then re ascending rope (ropeman2 and grigri)
Video yourself. And basically stop faffing. Get good at what you need to, and don't do anything else. Unless you enjoy bimbleing
Competence breeds confidence my friend.
Have fun
Post edited at 23:29
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In reply to ebdon:
It doesn't matter how quickly or competently you climb, attaching a GoPro to yourself just makes you look like a dick.
> Surely you could climb twice as much if you stopped faffing with the go pro?
It doesn't matter how quickly or competently you climb, attaching a GoPro to yourself just makes you look like a dick.
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In reply to planetmarshall:
But that is what they are designed for.
If you were using it to turn down the TV or butter some toast, then I could understand your comment.
> It doesn't matter how quickly or competently you climb, attaching a GoPro to yourself just makes you look like a dick.
But that is what they are designed for.
If you were using it to turn down the TV or butter some toast, then I could understand your comment.
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In reply to 19G:
>, 20 minutes to change into my shoes
>
You are talking about high in the Himalayas - yes?
>, 20 minutes to change into my shoes
>
You are talking about high in the Himalayas - yes?
Post edited at 07:50
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In reply to 19G:
Faffers and bumblers are the biggest irritant for anybody going outdoors; if you're organising a group or running any kind of event for any number of people, the slow ones inconvenience the rest of the group and could even endanger others. It only takes a few minutes of planning and preparation the day before to be quicker off in the morning.
A few early Alpine starts help to concentrate the mind!
Faffers and bumblers are the biggest irritant for anybody going outdoors; if you're organising a group or running any kind of event for any number of people, the slow ones inconvenience the rest of the group and could even endanger others. It only takes a few minutes of planning and preparation the day before to be quicker off in the morning.
A few early Alpine starts help to concentrate the mind!
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In reply to 19G:
I sometimes climb with someone who's a bit like you. He's a respected member of a wider group of people who all climb together, I think that collectively we all recognise that each person has their own strengths and weaknesses. When I find myself getting frustrated while he sorts out his abseiling arrangements, I remind myself that it's a far better way to be than the opposite fault, that the main reason we're there is the first place is to enjoy the outdoors and that it's not a race. It's good that you recognise that there's room for improvement and the obvious answer is just practice. Go through your routines on your own, at home, drill yourself and just make it as slick as you can
> Climbing teams I see at the crag seem to spend a lot less time faffing about than me. Is this all because of the ground anchor, or am I unnecessarily slow? Does anybody do any kind of deliberate improvement to speed up the routines, or is it just a case of incidental improvement through regular climbing? What can I do to make the most of the time I spend at the crag?
I sometimes climb with someone who's a bit like you. He's a respected member of a wider group of people who all climb together, I think that collectively we all recognise that each person has their own strengths and weaknesses. When I find myself getting frustrated while he sorts out his abseiling arrangements, I remind myself that it's a far better way to be than the opposite fault, that the main reason we're there is the first place is to enjoy the outdoors and that it's not a race. It's good that you recognise that there's room for improvement and the obvious answer is just practice. Go through your routines on your own, at home, drill yourself and just make it as slick as you can
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In reply to 19G:
Things that helped me,
Be safe and slick not simply fast.
Use a system that works for you, keep improving it, it will become second nature.
Concentrate and focus when setting up belays, work to a plan, I use DATES, Direction of load, Anchor selection, Thread anchors, Equalise anchors, Secure system.
Do it once and do it right, check it, then move on and don't keep rechecking.
Practice systems and rigs, use table legs in the kitchen etc if access to crags is limited.
Don't carry a full rack on each climb, only take what you might reasonably expect to use.
Things that helped me,
Be safe and slick not simply fast.
Use a system that works for you, keep improving it, it will become second nature.
Concentrate and focus when setting up belays, work to a plan, I use DATES, Direction of load, Anchor selection, Thread anchors, Equalise anchors, Secure system.
Do it once and do it right, check it, then move on and don't keep rechecking.
Practice systems and rigs, use table legs in the kitchen etc if access to crags is limited.
Don't carry a full rack on each climb, only take what you might reasonably expect to use.
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In reply to 19G:
Concentrate on the job in hand and be decisive. Most people faff because they either provarocate or get distracted.
On belays, just take a few seconds to view the options within a few metres of where you are, not just for placements under your nose. Then be decisive on which ones to use. Don't overcomplicate things. Usually a pair of ropes through a pair karibiners tied off at the waste is all that is needed.
Concentrate on the job in hand and be decisive. Most people faff because they either provarocate or get distracted.
On belays, just take a few seconds to view the options within a few metres of where you are, not just for placements under your nose. Then be decisive on which ones to use. Don't overcomplicate things. Usually a pair of ropes through a pair karibiners tied off at the waste is all that is needed.
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In reply to 19G:
Are you safe when you climb? Yes? Then speed doesn't matter and will come with practice.
Are you safe when you climb? Yes? Then speed doesn't matter and will come with practice.
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In reply to 19G:
The video thing really does help. Do it.
You might spot things like: taking one thing at a time out of the sack, putting on the ground, picking it back up, putting it somewhere else on the ground, clipping it your harness, then unclipping it and clipping it on a different gear loop. x20 bits of the rack.
Some people's hands just seem to move more slowly than others, and this shows up well on film. The putting on of shoes is a really interesting one. With racking or anchor building slow hands might indicate thoughtfulness about the task at hand. With shoes this is unlikely. I know someone who is painfully slow. When I watch him put on his shoes at a snail's pace, I assume he is simply thinking of other things. What are you thinking of? Just think about putting your shoes on.
When it comes to anchors, practice. Do it as a separate exercise. Use a stop watch. See how fast you can go by building the same anchor again and again and again. Then switch to another form and repeat. For a 3 piece anchor (with the pieces already placed) aim to beat 20 seconds, then 15 seconds. Do you often get to the top of a route and are not instantly sure of what you are going to do? Or change plans part way through the build?
Unless you can get this sorted you will really restrict the longer routes outside the UK you can do.
The video thing really does help. Do it.
You might spot things like: taking one thing at a time out of the sack, putting on the ground, picking it back up, putting it somewhere else on the ground, clipping it your harness, then unclipping it and clipping it on a different gear loop. x20 bits of the rack.
Some people's hands just seem to move more slowly than others, and this shows up well on film. The putting on of shoes is a really interesting one. With racking or anchor building slow hands might indicate thoughtfulness about the task at hand. With shoes this is unlikely. I know someone who is painfully slow. When I watch him put on his shoes at a snail's pace, I assume he is simply thinking of other things. What are you thinking of? Just think about putting your shoes on.
When it comes to anchors, practice. Do it as a separate exercise. Use a stop watch. See how fast you can go by building the same anchor again and again and again. Then switch to another form and repeat. For a 3 piece anchor (with the pieces already placed) aim to beat 20 seconds, then 15 seconds. Do you often get to the top of a route and are not instantly sure of what you are going to do? Or change plans part way through the build?
Unless you can get this sorted you will really restrict the longer routes outside the UK you can do.
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In reply to Capricorn One:
There are plenty of situations in which being slow is dangerous. Try still having two pitches to go on a route in the Dolomites, with a long and exposed descent to follow, and already hearing the thunder off in the distance.
Admittedly not so much in UK trad, although a belayer about to be swallowed by the tide at Pembroke or Gogarth might feel a certain sense of urgency.
There are plenty of situations in which being slow is dangerous. Try still having two pitches to go on a route in the Dolomites, with a long and exposed descent to follow, and already hearing the thunder off in the distance.
Admittedly not so much in UK trad, although a belayer about to be swallowed by the tide at Pembroke or Gogarth might feel a certain sense of urgency.
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In reply to AlanLittle:
Yes, speed does matter. Going (too) slowly in serious situations in the mountains (e.g. deteriorating weather) greatly increases the risk.
Yes, speed does matter. Going (too) slowly in serious situations in the mountains (e.g. deteriorating weather) greatly increases the risk.
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In reply to GrahamD:
TBF climbing on Idwal Slabs at night with a headtorch shouldn't be a fat lot more dangerous than climbing them in daylight.
Forgetting your headtorch when you make a late start may be a different matter
> Or look at the headtorches high on Idwal slabs most weekends.
TBF climbing on Idwal Slabs at night with a headtorch shouldn't be a fat lot more dangerous than climbing them in daylight.
Forgetting your headtorch when you make a late start may be a different matter
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In reply to 19G:
30 minutes to set up a belay sounds really slow, but I don't know what sort of belay you are setting.
I usually figure 2-5 minutes for a simple belay (e.g. a couple of slings around some trees and equalize with the climbing rope). Maybe 5-10 minutes if you are having to place nuts/cams and equalize.
30 minutes to set up a belay sounds really slow, but I don't know what sort of belay you are setting.
I usually figure 2-5 minutes for a simple belay (e.g. a couple of slings around some trees and equalize with the climbing rope). Maybe 5-10 minutes if you are having to place nuts/cams and equalize.
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In reply to David Coley:
In reply to springfall2008:
I can't really mock as I am a massive faff king myself :P
> [...]For a 3 piece anchor (with the pieces already placed) aim to beat 20 seconds, then 15 seconds.
In reply to springfall2008:
> I usually figure 2-5 minutes for a simple belay (e.g. a couple of slings around some trees and equalize with the climbing rope). Maybe 5-10 minutes if you are having to place nuts/cams and equalize.
I can't really mock as I am a massive faff king myself :P
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In reply to GrahamD:
I'm not sure, as long as you move with confidence the way off the slabs is about as easy to find as they come
> Just much harder (I imagine) to find your way off by torch.
I'm not sure, as long as you move with confidence the way off the slabs is about as easy to find as they come
Post edited at 18:57
In reply to davidbeynon:
I was with you on that, but after reading the OP's other posts I'm not convinced.
Juan
I was with you on that, but after reading the OP's other posts I'm not convinced.
Juan
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Or just how many routes you can get in after work
> Yes, speed does matter. Going (too) slowly in serious situations in the mountains (e.g. deteriorating weather) greatly increases the risk.
Or just how many routes you can get in after work
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In reply to 19G:
Regular climbing may help you improve / speed up - or it may ingrain slower practices.
For setting up anchors choose a venue where you can practice placing / setting up anchors safely at ground level. Try two point / three point ( or more ) anchors and follow Dave's advice regarding video and timing yourself / or race a friend. Focus on one type of anchor at a time. For example equalising two or more pieces with a single rope only, equalising with sewn slings, equalising when using two ropes.
Sort your gear before you go climbing and create a system that works for you- different people have different preferences. For example; colour code your wires with tape that match the tape on the karabiner you store them on and only have 6 or so on the krab. This can speed up sorting and choosing gear.
Can you choose the right size cam / nut for the crack first time? Use the finger method; measure the placement by finger width first then choose the right nut / cam. Eg; little finger size or less, two fingers, three fingers etc. ( I can't believe I'm about to type this...) Compare your finger widths with your nuts and you'll get a clearer idea of which one to choose!
Remember to have fun and don't let the desire for speed get in the way of making good, safe judgements.
Having two 120cm sewn slings on two separate screwgates always on the same place on your harness means you can access and deploy them quickly.
Regular climbing may help you improve / speed up - or it may ingrain slower practices.
For setting up anchors choose a venue where you can practice placing / setting up anchors safely at ground level. Try two point / three point ( or more ) anchors and follow Dave's advice regarding video and timing yourself / or race a friend. Focus on one type of anchor at a time. For example equalising two or more pieces with a single rope only, equalising with sewn slings, equalising when using two ropes.
Sort your gear before you go climbing and create a system that works for you- different people have different preferences. For example; colour code your wires with tape that match the tape on the karabiner you store them on and only have 6 or so on the krab. This can speed up sorting and choosing gear.
Can you choose the right size cam / nut for the crack first time? Use the finger method; measure the placement by finger width first then choose the right nut / cam. Eg; little finger size or less, two fingers, three fingers etc. ( I can't believe I'm about to type this...) Compare your finger widths with your nuts and you'll get a clearer idea of which one to choose!
Remember to have fun and don't let the desire for speed get in the way of making good, safe judgements.
Having two 120cm sewn slings on two separate screwgates always on the same place on your harness means you can access and deploy them quickly.
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In reply to 19G:
I have been making a conscious effort to reduce wasted time from my climbing for about 6 months, in that time I have become a lot more efficient. I think the act of timing yourself makes you more aware of how long everything takes and then you make more effort to go quicker where possible.
For me making that effort to go fast has transcended in to all my climbing and now even when I don't make much effort to be efficient I naturally am. You asked previously if being quick will happen from "incidental improvement", I am sure to some extent it would however if you only practice going slowly how will you get quicker.
Some have mentioned above that the point of climbing is enjoyment, I totally agree. I have found a real pleasure in feeling smooth, in control and efficient whilst going quickly.
So my advice to you would be time yourself doing all parts of your climbing routine then make efforts to shorten that time. Climbing lots will get you used to how you like to do things and find a system that works for you, when you have a system it's simply a case of speeding that up. Lastly go out with the intention of climbing lots of routes (probably well below you limit), give yourself a realistic goal of how many routes you could climb in a given session (then when you think you're quicker give yourself less time), time yourself to get from the bottom of the crag, climb the route and back to the bottom (TIME EVERYTHING).
Most importantly all I have said means nothing if the urge to speed up isn't there, either way go climbing and have fun.
Matt
P.s. This helped me.
http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/ten_ways_to_speed_up_your_climbin...
I have been making a conscious effort to reduce wasted time from my climbing for about 6 months, in that time I have become a lot more efficient. I think the act of timing yourself makes you more aware of how long everything takes and then you make more effort to go quicker where possible.
For me making that effort to go fast has transcended in to all my climbing and now even when I don't make much effort to be efficient I naturally am. You asked previously if being quick will happen from "incidental improvement", I am sure to some extent it would however if you only practice going slowly how will you get quicker.
Some have mentioned above that the point of climbing is enjoyment, I totally agree. I have found a real pleasure in feeling smooth, in control and efficient whilst going quickly.
So my advice to you would be time yourself doing all parts of your climbing routine then make efforts to shorten that time. Climbing lots will get you used to how you like to do things and find a system that works for you, when you have a system it's simply a case of speeding that up. Lastly go out with the intention of climbing lots of routes (probably well below you limit), give yourself a realistic goal of how many routes you could climb in a given session (then when you think you're quicker give yourself less time), time yourself to get from the bottom of the crag, climb the route and back to the bottom (TIME EVERYTHING).
Most importantly all I have said means nothing if the urge to speed up isn't there, either way go climbing and have fun.
Matt
P.s. This helped me.
http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/ten_ways_to_speed_up_your_climbin...
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In reply to 19G:
I would seriously disagree with the suggestions about videoing. That is EXACTLY the sort of distraction you don't need to be thinking about. Just concentrate on the job in hand.
I would seriously disagree with the suggestions about videoing. That is EXACTLY the sort of distraction you don't need to be thinking about. Just concentrate on the job in hand.
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In reply to GrahamD: then get someone else to video it to see where time is being used up. The suggestions isn't to do it every time, just to see on a few occasions on where time is going, - i think it might be very helpful.
In reply to wbo:
Each to their own I guess, but I'd guess the OP is either very scatty ore, more likely, is just overanalysing everything and adding more analysis isn't going to help.
Each to their own I guess, but I'd guess the OP is either very scatty ore, more likely, is just overanalysing everything and adding more analysis isn't going to help.
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In reply to GrahamD:
I had same opinion as well.. Until I actually tried to record. It takes about 10 seconds to un-clip GoPro from harness or take from pocket, put it on the helmet and press one button. That's it! If it runs out of charge (~1h) or angle is not perfect - not a big deal. After few hours of filming sky you'll get used to set up camera in angle you want it to be. Any footage is better than none.
> I would seriously disagree with the suggestions about videoing. That is EXACTLY the sort of distraction you don't need to be thinking about. Just concentrate on the job in hand.
I had same opinion as well.. Until I actually tried to record. It takes about 10 seconds to un-clip GoPro from harness or take from pocket, put it on the helmet and press one button. That's it! If it runs out of charge (~1h) or angle is not perfect - not a big deal. After few hours of filming sky you'll get used to set up camera in angle you want it to be. Any footage is better than none.
Post edited at 12:42
In reply to nutme:
We are talking about someone who gets distracted putting their shoes on !
> I had same opinion as well.. Until I actually tried to record. It takes about 10 seconds to un-clip GoPro from harness or take from pocket, put it on the helmet and press one button.
We are talking about someone who gets distracted putting their shoes on !
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In reply to 19G:
So long as you're safe, and are aware that you need/want to be quicker, keeping going climbing will hopefully do the rest?
So long as you're safe, and are aware that you need/want to be quicker, keeping going climbing will hopefully do the rest?
In reply to 19G:
nope, you are trolling perfection. A single post to start the thread, with no other posts from yourself. Granted it's not amassed many responses, but it's a simple clean example. 9/10.
> or am I unnecessarily slow?
nope, you are trolling perfection. A single post to start the thread, with no other posts from yourself. Granted it's not amassed many responses, but it's a simple clean example. 9/10.
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