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Does anyone know what wind speed is needed to keep the little b**tards away?
Looking for the most favourable day for a quick grit visit sometime this week but only if there's a reasonable chance of avoiding the midges.
Looking for the most favourable day for a quick grit visit sometime this week but only if there's a reasonable chance of avoiding the midges.
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In reply to Michael Hood:
I reckon that if it's 10mph plus for most of the day in the nearest town to where you are climbing then it should be OK on the crag. Much less than that and they seem to get you during a brief lull. Mind you we are talking Galloway midgies here - particularly tenacious little b*st*rds!
I reckon that if it's 10mph plus for most of the day in the nearest town to where you are climbing then it should be OK on the crag. Much less than that and they seem to get you during a brief lull. Mind you we are talking Galloway midgies here - particularly tenacious little b*st*rds!
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In reply to Michael Hood:
I'm wondering if the midges have been bad anywhere recently? What time of year do they normally die out? I was at Anglezarke yesterday, very sheltered, hardly a breeze at all for most of the day, very damp ground, but no midges.
I'm wondering if the midges have been bad anywhere recently? What time of year do they normally die out? I was at Anglezarke yesterday, very sheltered, hardly a breeze at all for most of the day, very damp ground, but no midges.
In reply to 1poundSOCKS: Was the sun out - apparently they don't like it when the light is too bright - hence dawn and dusk being when we most get bitten.
No midges at Anglezarke at this time of year is I believe unusual to say the least
No midges at Anglezarke at this time of year is I believe unusual to say the least
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In reply to Michael Hood:
At times, but we climbed in the shade too. At times there was some wind, so maybe we just got lucky, and we had either wind or sun. I maybe got bitten a little, but nothing causing much bother at all, and I don't even know if it was midges.
> Was the sun out
At times, but we climbed in the shade too. At times there was some wind, so maybe we just got lucky, and we had either wind or sun. I maybe got bitten a little, but nothing causing much bother at all, and I don't even know if it was midges.
In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:
Yeah I agree. Most forecasters seem to over estimate wind speeds rather than under. If the forecast is less than 10 mph its no guarantee at all and you have to account for other things like the land relief and local affect on wind as well as wind variance during the forecast period. I think 10-20 mph minimum is what you want on the forecast, but if its actually above 5mph ish locally where you are then they shouldn't fly.
Yeah I agree. Most forecasters seem to over estimate wind speeds rather than under. If the forecast is less than 10 mph its no guarantee at all and you have to account for other things like the land relief and local affect on wind as well as wind variance during the forecast period. I think 10-20 mph minimum is what you want on the forecast, but if its actually above 5mph ish locally where you are then they shouldn't fly.
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In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
They don't really die out until first frost - this is peak midgie season. That said they do seem to calm down a little bit from late September even without frost.
They don't like sun, wind, or long very dry periods of weather.
They don't really die out until first frost - this is peak midgie season. That said they do seem to calm down a little bit from late September even without frost.
They don't like sun, wind, or long very dry periods of weather.
Post edited at 15:27
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In reply to Michael Hood:
You won't get bitten in mid summer during the mid part of the day on a very sunny day (say 10:30 until 4 ish or so)when you are in the sunlight. But as soon as you are in any shade they can be a problem.
You won't get bitten in mid summer during the mid part of the day on a very sunny day (say 10:30 until 4 ish or so)when you are in the sunlight. But as soon as you are in any shade they can be a problem.
Post edited at 15:26
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
Must have got very lucky then, it seemed like a total midge trap. And probably is on the wrong day.
> they don't die out until first frost - this is peak midgie season. They don't like sun, wind, or long very dry periods of weather.
Must have got very lucky then, it seemed like a total midge trap. And probably is on the wrong day.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
In the last couple of years I've been thinking that the biting midge is becoming more tolerant to UV. Distressingly.
In the last couple of years I've been thinking that the biting midge is becoming more tolerant to UV. Distressingly.
In reply to Michael Hood:
I find wind direction at least as important as speed. If the winds blowing over the top of the crag, yer screwed.
I find wind direction at least as important as speed. If the winds blowing over the top of the crag, yer screwed.
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In reply to Michael Hood:
4-5 mph max is typically quoted and they should mainly feed at dawn and dusk (crepuscular feeding). I think sometimes, the wind just means they bite the lee side of the person. I find it needs to be blowing a gale and the time of day doesn't matter! They love me!
4-5 mph max is typically quoted and they should mainly feed at dawn and dusk (crepuscular feeding). I think sometimes, the wind just means they bite the lee side of the person. I find it needs to be blowing a gale and the time of day doesn't matter! They love me!
In reply to Le Chevalier Mal Fet:
Sure, but even the base of the crag can be quite sheltered if the wind is on to the crag and the wind speed isn't very strong. Right enough that's better than it blowing over the top from the other way .
Sure, but even the base of the crag can be quite sheltered if the wind is on to the crag and the wind speed isn't very strong. Right enough that's better than it blowing over the top from the other way .
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In reply to Rich W Parker:
It's not UV, it's thermal radiation, which confuses their heat-seeking sensors.
It's not UV, it's thermal radiation, which confuses their heat-seeking sensors.
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In reply to Rigid Raider:
Ah, didn't know that.
I've had a savaging on Tryfan this summer and several up here on bright, warm days. Can they possibly adapt?
Ah, didn't know that.
I've had a savaging on Tryfan this summer and several up here on bright, warm days. Can they possibly adapt?
In reply to Rich W Parker:
Unlikely over these time scales, but you see the effects of several mild winters that allow them to start breeding earlier from a larger surviving stock.
CB
edit: forgot to finish the argument, i.e. that this allows them to expand into marginal habitats where they are usually rare or absent. This may hold true even if numbers elsewhere may not seem dramatically changed (as whatever limits them there is still in effect, and populations hitting that limit a bit earlier would usually go unnoticed).
Unlikely over these time scales, but you see the effects of several mild winters that allow them to start breeding earlier from a larger surviving stock.
CB
edit: forgot to finish the argument, i.e. that this allows them to expand into marginal habitats where they are usually rare or absent. This may hold true even if numbers elsewhere may not seem dramatically changed (as whatever limits them there is still in effect, and populations hitting that limit a bit earlier would usually go unnoticed).
Post edited at 09:01
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In reply to Removed User:
Never been, but I have been warned.
> They were as horrific as you might expect at Wilton3 on Monday evening.
Never been, but I have been warned.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Can you provide an link for that?
I have in the past found its strong sunlight (as well as wind) which completely stops them flying, its not that they can't find me, they just aren't about full stop. A quick google seems to confirm this. Anecdotally I've been bitten in small areas of shade on very hot sunny still days (but not in the open) and warm overcast days in to the 20's but not in moderately warm very sunny days in the middle months of summer.
At this time of year the sun will be less strong so it may have less effect.
> It's not UV, it's thermal radiation, which confuses their heat-seeking sensors.
Can you provide an link for that?
I have in the past found its strong sunlight (as well as wind) which completely stops them flying, its not that they can't find me, they just aren't about full stop. A quick google seems to confirm this. Anecdotally I've been bitten in small areas of shade on very hot sunny still days (but not in the open) and warm overcast days in to the 20's but not in moderately warm very sunny days in the middle months of summer.
At this time of year the sun will be less strong so it may have less effect.
Post edited at 10:57
In reply to Michael Hood:
From the point of view of a flying insect there is no difference between a human walking at 5mph and a stationary human in a 5mph wind.
So if you walk down wind at exactly the same speed as the wind is blowing then you are effectively stationary, and the midges will gather around you as though you were having a picnic on a still day.
This gives me a plan. You need.
1. Some bagpipes.
2. Some sort of boat or amphibious transport vehicle.
3. A multi coloured coat.
4. A volunteer to be sacrificed.
1 and 3 are optional.
The scheme is simple. Wait until there is a day with wind speed slightly higher than a standard midge flying speed, then send the volunteer trundling down wind. Ideally the volunteer will be playing the bagpipes at this point, for reasons which will become obvious.
The midges will gather around what to them is a stationary victim and and begin their feast.
Eventually the volunteer will reach the coast and continue out to sea, leading a huge cloud of midges to their certain doom.
I reckon about half a dozen pipers and a stiff breeze could completely clear Scotland of midges in a week.
From the point of view of a flying insect there is no difference between a human walking at 5mph and a stationary human in a 5mph wind.
So if you walk down wind at exactly the same speed as the wind is blowing then you are effectively stationary, and the midges will gather around you as though you were having a picnic on a still day.
This gives me a plan. You need.
1. Some bagpipes.
2. Some sort of boat or amphibious transport vehicle.
3. A multi coloured coat.
4. A volunteer to be sacrificed.
1 and 3 are optional.
The scheme is simple. Wait until there is a day with wind speed slightly higher than a standard midge flying speed, then send the volunteer trundling down wind. Ideally the volunteer will be playing the bagpipes at this point, for reasons which will become obvious.
The midges will gather around what to them is a stationary victim and and begin their feast.
Eventually the volunteer will reach the coast and continue out to sea, leading a huge cloud of midges to their certain doom.
I reckon about half a dozen pipers and a stiff breeze could completely clear Scotland of midges in a week.
Post edited at 10:54
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
True enough. There's no getting away from the buggers!
Interestingly, we climbed on Craig Cywarch (aka Craig Cowarch) in Mid Wales last week on a still, overcast and humid day and never saw a midge. There just didn't seem to be any in the valley despite it looking like prime midge real estate. Anyone know if there is any geographical distribution of midge populations in upland areas?
True enough. There's no getting away from the buggers!
Interestingly, we climbed on Craig Cywarch (aka Craig Cowarch) in Mid Wales last week on a still, overcast and humid day and never saw a midge. There just didn't seem to be any in the valley despite it looking like prime midge real estate. Anyone know if there is any geographical distribution of midge populations in upland areas?
In reply to Le Chevalier Mal Fet:
I have been badly midged at the camp site at Dinas Mawddwy, so I would say you got lucky.
I have been badly midged at the camp site at Dinas Mawddwy, so I would say you got lucky.
In reply to Le Chevalier Mal Fet:
They can be less of a problem on very rocky unvegetated ground, or perhaps you were moving quickly most the day.
They can be less of a problem on very rocky unvegetated ground, or perhaps you were moving quickly most the day.
In reply to Michael Hood:
http://www.snh.org.uk/publications/on-line/advisorynotes/29/29.htm (see s2.6 - the article suggests about 6mph)
http://www.snh.org.uk/publications/on-line/advisorynotes/29/29.htm (see s2.6 - the article suggests about 6mph)
In reply to davidbeynon:
Both sentences above patently untrue but I like your idea!
> From the point of view of a flying insect there is no difference between a human walking at 5mph and a stationary human in a 5mph wind.
> So if you walk down wind at exactly the same speed as the wind is blowing then you are effectively stationary, and the midges will gather around you as though you were having a picnic on a still day.
>
>
Both sentences above patently untrue but I like your idea!
In reply to Michael Gordon:
I agree to some extent although as long as they aren't thick in the air walking fast does stop them bothering you as much in my experience, cycling is better though.
I agree to some extent although as long as they aren't thick in the air walking fast does stop them bothering you as much in my experience, cycling is better though.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Running away is better than walking fast - and sometimes necessary
I have long suspected that one day I'm going to have a serious fall because of being distracted by hundreds of the buggers flying about me.
Running away is better than walking fast - and sometimes necessary
I have long suspected that one day I'm going to have a serious fall because of being distracted by hundreds of the buggers flying about me.
Post edited at 17:32
In reply to Michael Hood:
I camped around this time last year up at Clachtoll beach. You could literally see them in the air as you were driving along. Didn't really matter what you did after leaving the car - you were getting eaten alive!
I camped around this time last year up at Clachtoll beach. You could literally see them in the air as you were driving along. Didn't really matter what you did after leaving the car - you were getting eaten alive!
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Once as I cycled back to my car along Glen Affric from the Alltbeithe hostel (I parked the bike there for the day) I was absolutely demented by clegs the whole way. The tail wind matched my speed perfectly. I nearly came a cropper a few times trying to swat them from my back and shoulders as I bounced along. My MTB skills are woefully poor and view the bike purely as a means to an end
> I agree to some extent although as long as they aren't thick in the air walking fast does stop them bothering you as much in my experience, cycling is better though.
Once as I cycled back to my car along Glen Affric from the Alltbeithe hostel (I parked the bike there for the day) I was absolutely demented by clegs the whole way. The tail wind matched my speed perfectly. I nearly came a cropper a few times trying to swat them from my back and shoulders as I bounced along. My MTB skills are woefully poor and view the bike purely as a means to an end
In reply to Michael Gordon:
You just need to move the ground down wind as well.
> Both sentences above patently untrue but I like your idea!
You just need to move the ground down wind as well.
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Nah that's not the ukc way!
> I think everyone just groaned and decided to ignore!
Nah that's not the ukc way!
In reply to ThunderCat:
You should probably steer (ha) clear of this thread:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=648733
> I am really sensitive to cow related puns
You should probably steer (ha) clear of this thread:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=648733
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