UKC

Placing small wires at Tremadog last weekend had a realisation! I needs to wear my specs when climbing.

So what are the best spectacle retainers for climbing?
Glasses are expensive and I do not want to loose them.

Cheers
Fran

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:
I have climbed with glasses for about 45 years.
After trying all sorts of commercially produced retainers I prefer to use a length of thin nylon cord clove hitched at both ends near my ears . Builders string line works well , though sometimes use 2mm shockcord. HTH

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

Are you sure you want to wear your specs climbing? Presume you're talking about reading glasses - so everything at arm's length and beyond will be blurred. Is that good? Or do you use varifocals (in which case the retainer might be a good plan)? In which case I'd be worried about getting a good pair knackered even with a retainer.

Better still would be contact lenses, a good optician will get you something which gives decent clear distance vision, good vision for footholds, and for placing tiny, fiddly wires at Tremadog (this is easier if you don't have astigmatism, but still possible if you do).

Off to bed now but can answer any questions eventually.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

Disposable contact lenses is my vote.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

Having always having to wear glasses i have found the Croakies Suitors best for climbing. I've got one of their original neoprene retainers too, but i find that is better for sailing and canoeing. The Suitors is a jersey fabric thing with a slider which makes it longer/shorter. Had mine years, no idea how much or where you can buy them from now.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

Basically, any retainers should be fine - whatever you can find for a couple of quid on Ebay or Amazon - these are not exactly technological marvels.

Having said that, I rarely bother with retainers any more - I've not had my glasses knocked off yet, though I make sure I always have a spare pair in the car just in case.

Contact lenses, as some have advised, are a good solution if they work for you, but if you're getting long sighted in your advancing age like me then they no longer work for both long and near vision.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

Watching the answers with interest. I too have just begun to wear me specs climbing. I have varifocals and it seems to work OK for me. I've just spent the afternoon trawling the sports shops in search of some retainers - not one shop could show me owt!
I've used those neoprene type ones with sunglasses in the past and that was what i went looking for without success. Many on-line but I'd rather see and feel 'em first. But where?

In reply to Rick Graham:

With that much experience you must have the job sorted Rick. I'll try it at once. Both the string and elastic versions. By the way what's "HTH"?

NB - Gotta get the Costa Blanca book back to you.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

The best by far, for varifocal vision while climbing , are multi focal contact lenses, as a few above have said and Jon implied. I am amazed that it isn't better known that lenses can now simultaneously correct both short sighted and age related difficulty with close distance. I felt like I had my teenage perfect vision at all distances back. Apparently they don't work for everyone, but well worth a try. I expect Jon can tell us more.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

Hope this helps

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:
I wear varifocal glasses for everyday use including climbing with reading glasses just for computer work and od course reading. Climbing became increasingly difficult without glasses and I soon adopted to looking through the appropriate part of the lens for finger and toe holds.

Retainers are a must for me, without them I've often knocked glasses off at the wall, eg with my upper arm when reaching through. The best sort are the ones with stiff sleeves that slide over the arms of your glasses provided they are thick enough. The other sort with elastic bands that grip the arms can be ok, but avoid the flimsy ones with thin rubber that break/snap easily. I've found sports/climbing shops to sell more reliable/durable retainers than opticians like Specsavers. I think I got my last ones from Joe Browns in Capel Curig

In reply to Martin Bennett:

Any kayak retailers will sell them as they are an essential item when boating.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

In the same boat. I have a contact lens test next week and meanwhile I've bought a pair of cheap half-moon reading specs (with some of these retainers http://www.climbers-shop.com/10897675/products/julbo-fit-fix-retainers---pa... ) as a DIY varifocal option - they seem to work but haven't really tried them at the sharp end yet...providing I can see the sharp end that is.

In reply to kevin stephens:

It was a comment of yours that made me think of varifocal glasses Kev, and as you said it's a good solution though I reckon they should be the other way up for climbing - finger holds and nut fiddling are closer work than footholds.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I wear varifocals and I love my croakies neoprene glasses retainer of uncertain vintage. The frog pictures on the band always cheer me up. They've saved my glasses more than once: just this week at Alien Rock, for one, when the top rope pulled them off my face. And those were my low-profile, semi-wraparound style glasses that I bought specially for sporting activities.

You can get neoprene retainers for zip all money from eBay, Amazon, or even Mountain Warehouse. Cheap enough to bin them if you don't get on with them IMO.

I have tried multifocal contact lenses. They worked OK; I wouldn't have called it "teenage perfect vision at all distances" but it was certainly comparable to my varifocals. Unfortunately I an unable to get lenses out - I'm really squeamish about eyes and although I could put them in OK I just couldn't manage to manipulations required to get them out. (Possibly not helped by keeping my fingernails very closely trimmed.)

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I wear bifocals and use the reading bit for placing RP's and the rest for seeing my footholds. I find a helmet makes it unlikely that they get knocked off. When deep water soloing I have a cork threaded onto a shoelace which is clove hitched to each arm. I know ... I sound like a style guru.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I climb with glasses, but don't need any retainer - just make sure they fit well and they stay on!

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

Just tape some 2mm tat onto your glasses using micropore tape. Bombproof.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I've worn glasses longer than I've been climbing. So has my husband. Neither of us use a retainer. I find if the glasses are slack enough to risk falling off when climbing then they're slack enough to be irritating (sliding down nose) when not climbing. If the glasses fit well it isn't a problem.

In reply to Becky E:


Indeed.

In reply to pog100:


Totally agree with 'well worth a try'. Mutifocal contacts are great when they work, but they don't work for everyone. This is partly down to whether the prescription is suitable and what the visual demands are, but also a lot down to pot luck. Some people's brains process the vision from multifocal contacts brilliantly, while other people find that their vision is crap no matter how much you tweak the prescription, lens design, blah blah. These people may, of course, just be whinging bastards for whom nothing is ever good enough.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Apologies for the thread hijack, but could I ask your opinion on this please Jon?
I asked my optician about varifocal contact lenses, and he said that my presbyopia wasn't bad enough yet, and varifocal lenses would accelerate it. Is that possible?
I realised this weekend that I can no longer read an OS map with my contacts in, although placing gear is still OK.

In reply to Hooo:

Sounds like strange advice. I'm not aware of any research that suggests multifocal contacts can accelerate presbyopia (I could possibly be wrong, but this certainly isn't mainstream advice). The general consensus is that presbyopia is an inexorable process of the lens hardening as extra layers are added over time, and it makes no odds what lenses you put in front of the eye - although there has been maybe a paper or two to suggest differently.


What I would do if you told me that - and I thought multifocals weren't the right solution - would be to tweak your prescription a bit in on eye to give you a bit of a boost for near vision without cocking up the distance. Or maybe a multifocal in one eye only. It can take a bit of trial and error, but you shouldn't just have to lump it if you can't read a map. There may be lots of factors I'm not aware of, but accelerating your presbyopia is not a worry IME.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.: Due to now needing reading glasses I've just ordered a pair of these for orienteering

http://theorienteeringshop.com/O-Glasses-classic-Vapro
(actually buying from CompassPoint along with a neoprene retainer but this picture is better)

Maybe they'll do the job for climbing as well - I'm guessing I'll be in a similar situation before too long.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

Here's my experience:

Contact lenses: fiddly and you're in trouble if one drops out. Also you've got to carry the little containers and bottles of liquid. Worst aspect of contacts is dust, so if a gust of wind blows dust in your face you're in agony for a few minutes. Finally the varifocal lenses are difficult to use and probably expensive.

Varifocals: wonderful if fitted by a decent optician and not a budget high street chain. Can be very lightweight but lightweight doesn't grip so well and is easily knocked off, to go spinning down to the foot of the climb. Can also be photochromic. Worn with a cord they would be my choice every time, the vision with a quality pair is fantastic.

In reply to Becky E:

Similarly I don't use a retainer, but it sometimes feels a little risky when seconding on multi pitch routes as the rope sometimes catches them and I have almost had them come off a few times. I have had them come off twice in forty plus years of climbing; once following a decent length head first fall, and the other half way up a route I was leading at Hodge Close, which led to a very interesting second half as I couldn't see my feet or to place wires. On balance I think I should really wear one, particularly on longer routes, though statistically, given the number of routes I have done, the risk of dropping them is small, but the potential consequences unpleasant!

In reply to Jon Stewart:

www.facebook.com/FlipFrames/

Now what I really want to try for work and climbing is some " flip frames "

Unfortunately the US bloke trying to introduce them does not appear to have got them onto the market yet.

I just get glazed/rolling eyes as a reaction when I ask my optician. The nearest found by googling is make up glasses, which hinge down, probably so one can get your mascara on.

Any ideas, Jon?

In reply to Rick Graham:

A bit of an eye-roll from me I'm afraid. A bifocal with a nice big segment is going to provide better functionality for most uses, as you don't need to flip them, you just look in the right direction.

I can see these being useful for certain jobs where the close work is (sometimes) above your head, but other than that I can't see the advantage over a bifocal. Cosmesis is certainly not one of them!

In reply to Rigid Raider:



Not normal these days. For climbing, I would generally recommend daily disposable soft lenses which don't drop out or get particles behind like rigid lenses (which are a nightmare for this). No containers, no losing lenses, and generally perfectly comfortable (i.e. not noticable). As I said, the multifocals will either work, or they won't - and if they don't, monovision (non-dominant eye corrected for close work) can work well for many people. Pretty cheap too if you're not using them every day.


It's pretty easy to fit a pair of varis properly, but you will get what you pay for. A cheap pair from a high street chain will be fairly crap in comparison to a £500 pair, and if they're not fitted right they'll be useless. But you shouldn't have to avoid all chains just to get a decent pair of varifocals! At our place (chain), we sell fancy custom-made frames with the very best lenses available.

I'm all for supporting independent opticians and in many cases you'll get better service, but you can get top of the range glasses fitted accurately from the chains too! The places to avoid are opticians who haven't kept pace with changes in the industry and don't have good up-to-date testing equipment (e.g. retinal camera) or fit the most most modern contact lenses.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Thanks, that's what I thought. Presbyopia is purely a function of aging, not external factors.
I like the idea of a weaker prescription in my non-dominant eye, that's a nice simple trick. In fact I can just try one of my right lenses (-3.75) in my left eye (-5) for starters.
Totally agree regarding daily disposable lenses too. I'd never go back to rigid lenses or cleaning. I carry a spare pair or two, so if I do get something in my eye I just pop the lens out and put a new one in.

In reply to Hooo:

That'll work well if your right eye is dominant, as it gives a reading add of +1.25 to the left only. You can test eye dominance easily (see youtube). This might be overkill if it's only very early presbyopia (+0.50 add non-dominant may be all you need) and could be quite annoying, but interesting to find out.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Right eye is definitely dominant, so I'll give it a go. Thanks.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I climb in glasses all the time, although it took time to get used to and I do also wear contacts on some days. I've never bothered with a retainer and never had any problems. I do have two pairs of glasses cheap from specsavers, so i have an emergency pair in the car for the drive home should the worst happen.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I use a single ordinary (i.e. not multifocal) disposable soft lense in one eye. This is brilliant for climbing, map-reading in the mountains, and for meetings where I want to see both my notes and the other participants. After a very short period one's brain adapts to one eye being useful for close objects and the other for far vision - the brain is very adaptable. (This is demonstrated by experiments which show that subjects wearing special glasses that invert images soon find that they are 'seeing' things normally.)
I've had no problems with them dropping out or getting grit under them. Only problem has been my impatience - taking them out before washing my hands and stingingly getting chalk & dirt in my eye.

In reply to Nigel Coe:


+1

I make sure the lense goes in the dominant eye, as it seems to make it easier for the brain to sort out the images. I use it for running mainly, or if I go somewhere where I need to wear safety glasses or a full face respirator. As you say, it's good for map reading and a lot better than wearing glasses in the rain.

In reply to Rick Graham:

Ask Ted ,,,,,, Rick

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

First proper trial of my half-moon on a cord option this week - forgot I was wearing them as soon as I stepped onto the rock - and , since it was the hardest route I've done for 20+ years, a success I think!

I also had an appointment with the opticians earlier in the week where they gave up trying to get a contact lens in my eyes - after an appraising look they said I'd be better off learning to do it myslef

In reply to Ridge:


Why not put lenses in both eyes?

In reply to nufkin:


As I understand it, you might, but only to get two zones of focusing, near and distant vision.

Only need one lens if the other eye has a usable focal zone without any correction..

Out of interest, has anybody tried this technique with glasses rather than contact lenses?

In reply to Rick Graham:


Ah, right. My eyes are terrible without correction, so I was thinking just one lens would be egregiously limiting

In reply to nufkin:
I'm short sighted, which means I can see fine close up, but can't see distant objects clearly. With two contact lenses in I'm effectively long sighted and can't read maps etc. With one contact lens in I have distance vision in one eye and close range vision in the other. That gives me reasonable vision for all scenarios.

In reply to Rick Graham:



Yes this is the right idea. Depends on whether you're short-sighted and by how much if one lens will work, and which eye you should put it in depends on both eye dominance and prescription.


Yes, but it's a crap solution! Why have monovision (one eye distance, one eye near) when you can have varifocals, which give you both eyes working correctly together at every distance.

To all those thinking "I might try this one contact lens deal" please go and see an optometrist! Tell them what you need to see and they will come up with a solution, which will depend on lots of factors, chiefly your prescription, but also the condition of the surface of your eye and countless other factors we need to take into account.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


My gripe with varifocals is that for work and play I want a full field of vision.

In reply to Rick Graham:

Once presbyopia strikes, you have to compromise. Multifocal contact lenses are your best bet, give'em a go if you haven't already. They're totally different to varifocal specs, you get all the prescriptions for different distances simultaneously over the full field, and let your brain sort it all out. Sometimes works perfectly, and the design of the lenses matters a lot, so don't give up if the first ones you trial aren't brilliant.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Thanks Jon, will look into it.

In reply to Rick Graham:

You definitely have to try a few prescriptions. I think I tried at least 3 multi focal options before I got something that worked.
However after a couple of years I think my reading prescription changed and I couldn't get them to work. I then got one ordinary lens in the dominant eye to work better than the multi focal lenses. The added bonus is that it is cheaper and I only have one lens to put in after years of putting in two.
I have noticed in winter that contact lenses actually provide good protection for your eyes on windy snowy weather as the eye without a lens starts watering.

In reply to abbeywall:


Yes, this will usually sort out distance vision problems - and if your near is still OK with just one eye multifocal, bob's your uncle.

Bit of a pain having to do all the trial and error, but I assure you, this is just how it is. You simply can't predict exactly how well a given lens design and prescription is going to work for any individual, you have a bash and then tweak it according to what the patient tells you about what they can and can't see well, and what they'd like to. Satisfying when it works out well, but a total waste of time and money when nothing works and the frustrated patient goes round telling all their mates how shit contact lenses are.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I'm very near-sighted and have worn glasses for climbing for my entire 59-year climbing career. I've used some kind of retainer ever since I knocked my glasses off leading, 300 feet from the ground and 100 feet from the top. Gripping top pitch! (Glasses never found.)

Now that I wear a helmet while climbing, it is much harder to lose glasses. But the helmet isn't on during many approaches and stream crossings, where loss of the glasses would be almost worse than on a climb.

In recent years, I've been using frames that have very thin wire temples. Most retainers (like the Croakie neoprene ones) don't work with these, but Croakie does make a cord retainer that will grip wire temples: https://croakies.com/product/terra-spec-cords-adjustable/

I can't use my ‘normal’ variofocals on climbs that require precise footwork in situations where the body/head has to be kept close to the rock. This is because I'm only able to peer through the lowest part of the lens to place my feet... and of course this part is only suitable for close-up work ie handholds. On easier climbs where I can lean out more and tilt the head position, it isn’t so much of a problem.

I’ve also found that ‘springy’ wire frames work well in keeping glasses from being knocked off. If one side is accidently dislodged, the flexibility of the frame usually means that the other side stays on (although I’ve still got the excitement of reattaching the side-piece with one-hand).

In reply to carl dawson:

I guess you need a distance lens with a near segment at the top (so you can look up or dip your chin a bit to look for handholds) and a bit of 'progression' (lens goes gradually more plus down the lens like a VF, but not as much) bringing footholds into focus. A tiny gap in the market, I wonder if it would sell?

In reply to abbeywall:

Sorry, didn't read your post properly so my reply doesn't make sense. I thought you'd gone to one multifocal and one distance, which can also be a good option with a bit more binocularity* than simple monovision**


*brain combining images from both eyes

**one eye distance, one close (using either just one lens or two, depending on prescription and eye dominance)

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I wear specs climbing. Admittedly I do mostly single pitch sport or bouldering and I can see without them, so the consequences are not so severe as others, but I have never had a problem with them coming off. Of course if I was on a mega expedition I'd rethink, but at least for my climbing I don't see the need to wear retainers, just glasses that fit well.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

If you wear a helmet, the helmet straps will stop your specs from falling off.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Yes thanks I expect I will have to experiment again when the non dominant eye doesn't do reading anymore. This post has been interesting to know about different options as I have sacrificed a bit of distance clarity. The first multi focal option was amazing distance but I couldn't read a thing.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I've always worn glasses climbing. Least irritating retainer is the type that doesn't have a long dangly bit at the back. Retainers don't work well with some smooth-ended arms - wrap a little finger tape around the ends of the arms before pushing the retainer on to improve the grip. Glasses with the old style curly wire arm-ends would be best but I haven't seen this type for a long time. Wearing a helmet also will eliminate the risk of accidentally knocking glasses off.

In reply to A Nidderdale boulderer.:

I've always worn contacts for distance and luckily have both eyes with same prescription. Recently its been hard looking at a monitor and tried the split eye setup others mentioned. Found it really hard. 3 months later, went back. Now have reading glasses to correct back with lenses in! Useful at work in meetings. Also found a pair of prescription sunglasses v.useful, especially driving when I don't have lenses in. Suggest getting a pair. Its all a compromise and finding one for you.
Chris