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I was running in my local hills yesterday and on one of the summits found a teddy bear, information leaflet in a plastic wallet and a tent peg nearby (presumably supposed to be attaching it all together). I didn't remove it but when I got home did some research on what this was all about. Turns out it's related to a challenge someone has set themselves about climbing various mountains for a particular charity related to a loss they have suffered, leaving similar mementoes / info on each hill.
I emailed the charity this morning to try and sensitively point out why this isn't a great idea but it went down like a lead balloon.
What would anyone else do? This is essentially litter. In a couple of weeks the paper will degrade so no-one will know what on earth it's all about and there will be a soggy teddy and a bit of plastic lying around on an otherwise beautiful and wild environment. My plan is to head up again at the weekend and remove it; I wouldn't make such a big issue of it if it was a one off but planning on leaving these on so many hills is just plain wrong. I don't want to get into an argument with people who are suffering but at the same time I feel strongly that there needs to be some basic education about the environmental considerations .
Suggestions?
I emailed the charity this morning to try and sensitively point out why this isn't a great idea but it went down like a lead balloon.
What would anyone else do? This is essentially litter. In a couple of weeks the paper will degrade so no-one will know what on earth it's all about and there will be a soggy teddy and a bit of plastic lying around on an otherwise beautiful and wild environment. My plan is to head up again at the weekend and remove it; I wouldn't make such a big issue of it if it was a one off but planning on leaving these on so many hills is just plain wrong. I don't want to get into an argument with people who are suffering but at the same time I feel strongly that there needs to be some basic education about the environmental considerations .
Suggestions?
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
It's tricky. I agree with you, but it's not generally acceptable to argue with someone who is grieving.
Abandoning a teddy bear on top of a hill does seem a strange idea to me.
It's tricky. I agree with you, but it's not generally acceptable to argue with someone who is grieving.
Abandoning a teddy bear on top of a hill does seem a strange idea to me.
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
I was in east Germany recently and on top of lots of the sandstone pillars there is a little metal case which contains a little logbook. Anyway, on top of one which was accessible by ladder, tucked away over the railing there was a bunch of candles and a photograph and old slings and some potted plants and one of these metal cases with a book inside explaining that this was a memorial for a young local climber who had committed suicide and the logbook had entries from people who knew him and others who had found it. It all seemed very nice and tasteful and appropriate to me, it was a little cluster of things but I didn't feel at all that it shouldn't have been put there. It was a beautiful spot.
I was in east Germany recently and on top of lots of the sandstone pillars there is a little metal case which contains a little logbook. Anyway, on top of one which was accessible by ladder, tucked away over the railing there was a bunch of candles and a photograph and old slings and some potted plants and one of these metal cases with a book inside explaining that this was a memorial for a young local climber who had committed suicide and the logbook had entries from people who knew him and others who had found it. It all seemed very nice and tasteful and appropriate to me, it was a little cluster of things but I didn't feel at all that it shouldn't have been put there. It was a beautiful spot.
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
There is rarely a 'harmless' solution, I'm afraid.
Personally, in Scotland, I remove these things from summits - plus the plastic cannisters of ashes, artificial flowers, photos, toy fairies, and so on, along with ordinary litter. I find it hard to believe that many of those being commemorated in this way would have wanted it. And people copy each other, so when such things are left alone, they tend to build up - so that what may have begun as a lone, discrete shrine gradually becomes a cluttered mess.
I know such clean-ups are potentially upsetting to some, and also that they remove a source of upset for others; it just feels right to me to do it. I can see why some others find that difficult or disagreeable, and I suppose there will probably always be such conflicts of interest in special places.
Suggestions? Follow your conscience, and accept that it isn't always a clear-cut issue with just one good solution.
There is rarely a 'harmless' solution, I'm afraid.
Personally, in Scotland, I remove these things from summits - plus the plastic cannisters of ashes, artificial flowers, photos, toy fairies, and so on, along with ordinary litter. I find it hard to believe that many of those being commemorated in this way would have wanted it. And people copy each other, so when such things are left alone, they tend to build up - so that what may have begun as a lone, discrete shrine gradually becomes a cluttered mess.
I know such clean-ups are potentially upsetting to some, and also that they remove a source of upset for others; it just feels right to me to do it. I can see why some others find that difficult or disagreeable, and I suppose there will probably always be such conflicts of interest in special places.
Suggestions? Follow your conscience, and accept that it isn't always a clear-cut issue with just one good solution.
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
Just take it away and bin it like any other litter. That's what I did with the laminated photo and poem I found on top of a Munro recently. It's not like those that put it there can consider it a permanent memorial. As for the motivation, leaving rubbish on a hill as a memorial to a loved one that loved the hills seems a bit odd to me but I don't suppose relatives see it that way.
Just take it away and bin it like any other litter. That's what I did with the laminated photo and poem I found on top of a Munro recently. It's not like those that put it there can consider it a permanent memorial. As for the motivation, leaving rubbish on a hill as a memorial to a loved one that loved the hills seems a bit odd to me but I don't suppose relatives see it that way.
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
I'm surprised this hasn't had more responses. As someone says above, if grief is involved you're unlikely to make much headway in convincing someone to change their plans. But, it is litter, unless they're planning to also go up and remove it in a week or two.
You say "various mountains". Any idea how many? 5? 10? 50? If it's the upper end, that's a lot of litter!
I'm surprised this hasn't had more responses. As someone says above, if grief is involved you're unlikely to make much headway in convincing someone to change their plans. But, it is litter, unless they're planning to also go up and remove it in a week or two.
You say "various mountains". Any idea how many? 5? 10? 50? If it's the upper end, that's a lot of litter!
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
Plain wrong. Name names! Charities are understandably sensitive to bad PR and the worse it gets, the sooner we can all reach a satisfactory agreement that we won't give them money unless they stop this and, furthermore, we'll urge everybody else to stop giving them money too.
T
Plain wrong. Name names! Charities are understandably sensitive to bad PR and the worse it gets, the sooner we can all reach a satisfactory agreement that we won't give them money unless they stop this and, furthermore, we'll urge everybody else to stop giving them money too.
T
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
I'd rescue the poor abandoned teddy bear and bin the rest.
If gently nudging the charity didn't work I would write a letter to the charity's board of trustees detailing my conversation(s) and noting my concern that the charity is encouraging individual(s) to commit criminal acts of littering as well as incriminating themselves online via the charity's web pages, and that you are concerned for both the individual and the charity (accessory to crime). It'd be worth taking five minutes to identify the relevant laws and numbers to include in the letter.
I'd not contact the individual; I'm sure you wouldn't either given your reasonable approach.
Or I'd start a cynical business making biodegradable memorial tat. Plenty of roadside shrines appearing that raise the same issues.
One particular case near us - not a road accident - saw various children's toys nailed to a tree by a footpath including a bicycle. I let that one go given the issues between the family and the rescue services involved; tensions were high. A line needs to be drawn under this sort of thing - it's growing - but there's never a good time to do it.
I'd rescue the poor abandoned teddy bear and bin the rest.
If gently nudging the charity didn't work I would write a letter to the charity's board of trustees detailing my conversation(s) and noting my concern that the charity is encouraging individual(s) to commit criminal acts of littering as well as incriminating themselves online via the charity's web pages, and that you are concerned for both the individual and the charity (accessory to crime). It'd be worth taking five minutes to identify the relevant laws and numbers to include in the letter.
I'd not contact the individual; I'm sure you wouldn't either given your reasonable approach.
Or I'd start a cynical business making biodegradable memorial tat. Plenty of roadside shrines appearing that raise the same issues.
One particular case near us - not a road accident - saw various children's toys nailed to a tree by a footpath including a bicycle. I let that one go given the issues between the family and the rescue services involved; tensions were high. A line needs to be drawn under this sort of thing - it's growing - but there's never a good time to do it.
Post edited at 21:28
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
I think that it may be useful to consider a distinction between stuff left at a site by bereaved individuals following someones death there, and stuff left there after someone died somewhere else.
In the former scenario, people come to grieve, to ponder, to remember, to try and make sense of the incident. The news of the death reaches people at different times, but it is usually in the days immediately after the death, and before cremation and burial. People are still in a state of shock. The 'rubbish' left there accumulates over a week or so, and is left by people who are often strangers to one another. Frequently, a person/persons in their number will have the sensitivity to recognise that the 'rubbish' should, out of common decency, be removed, and will do this unobtrusively and gradually over the following week.
By the time of the cremation, grieving of a different form takes place.
By contrast, in the latter, the 'party' heading for an outdoor location to dispose of the ashes, seems commonly to do so because someone in that party has decided on the site, and is deferred to. The site is an afterthought, and in those cases where the rubbish is left , merely somewhere to play out the disposal process. After all, the death was some time ago, and if the individuals couldn't be bothered to choreograph it properly, to consider for one moment what would happen to the stuff they left in a public place , once they had walked away, then it hardly deserves the description of ceremony or ritual.
I am not for one moment claiming that one group has greater claim to leave rubbish than the other. We have to share the mountains with some insensitive people who leave rubbish for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes, with a little inside knowledge, we might emphathise, and check if it needs removing the following week, at other times, it might be more appropriate to shift the rubbish once the disposal party has gone.
I think that it may be useful to consider a distinction between stuff left at a site by bereaved individuals following someones death there, and stuff left there after someone died somewhere else.
In the former scenario, people come to grieve, to ponder, to remember, to try and make sense of the incident. The news of the death reaches people at different times, but it is usually in the days immediately after the death, and before cremation and burial. People are still in a state of shock. The 'rubbish' left there accumulates over a week or so, and is left by people who are often strangers to one another. Frequently, a person/persons in their number will have the sensitivity to recognise that the 'rubbish' should, out of common decency, be removed, and will do this unobtrusively and gradually over the following week.
By the time of the cremation, grieving of a different form takes place.
By contrast, in the latter, the 'party' heading for an outdoor location to dispose of the ashes, seems commonly to do so because someone in that party has decided on the site, and is deferred to. The site is an afterthought, and in those cases where the rubbish is left , merely somewhere to play out the disposal process. After all, the death was some time ago, and if the individuals couldn't be bothered to choreograph it properly, to consider for one moment what would happen to the stuff they left in a public place , once they had walked away, then it hardly deserves the description of ceremony or ritual.
I am not for one moment claiming that one group has greater claim to leave rubbish than the other. We have to share the mountains with some insensitive people who leave rubbish for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes, with a little inside knowledge, we might emphathise, and check if it needs removing the following week, at other times, it might be more appropriate to shift the rubbish once the disposal party has gone.
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In reply to wintertree:
Or I'd start a cynical business making biodegradable memorial tat.
You're onto something there.
Or I'd start a cynical business making biodegradable memorial tat.
You're onto something there.
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
Its deliberate tat and litter.
Some of the people who do it have absolutely no consideration for anything other than the person whose died.
As voluntary ranger for a national park i often come across shrines. The most memorable one was placed on open moorland by someone who knew absolutely nothing about the moorland management, nor plants.
A part of the shrine consisted of several of the plants/trees, non of which would thrive on the moorland acid soil and there were several bits of glass jars and plastic tat. The price labels had been left on too. Grandma couldn't read them I guess anyway.
The following autumn the keeper did a bit of 'burning off' - this included the offending area.
Nothing much left then.
Its deliberate tat and litter.
Some of the people who do it have absolutely no consideration for anything other than the person whose died.
As voluntary ranger for a national park i often come across shrines. The most memorable one was placed on open moorland by someone who knew absolutely nothing about the moorland management, nor plants.
A part of the shrine consisted of several of the plants/trees, non of which would thrive on the moorland acid soil and there were several bits of glass jars and plastic tat. The price labels had been left on too. Grandma couldn't read them I guess anyway.
The following autumn the keeper did a bit of 'burning off' - this included the offending area.
Nothing much left then.
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In reply to wintertree:
I agree with you, but smm's post suggests that the littering is the work of an individual acting on their own to benefit the charity, rather than something the charity is organising itself. Unless this person is contactable its going to be difficult to deter them.
I often (when I remember) carry an old carrier bag to collect litter I find in the hills. In this case, teddy would go straight into it with the banana skins and chocolate wrappers.
I agree with you, but smm's post suggests that the littering is the work of an individual acting on their own to benefit the charity, rather than something the charity is organising itself. Unless this person is contactable its going to be difficult to deter them.
I often (when I remember) carry an old carrier bag to collect litter I find in the hills. In this case, teddy would go straight into it with the banana skins and chocolate wrappers.
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Thanks for the comments. I don't want to name the charity as I'm not sure that's helpful on a public forum . But yes to confirm this is a challenge being undertaken by an individual to raise awareness and funds for the charity and this individual has suffered a bereavement that the charity is based on (trying not be too cryptic but as I said I don't want to identify this publically). I don't know if the charity approved it first. The plan involves 100 hills which is a lot of litter to be leaving; it is the potential scale of it which made me write to the charity rather than just remove the stuff and get on with my life. Though looking at his Facebook page I don't think he's anywhere near his target and the challenge seems to end in November.
I will make a quick trip up there tomorrow and remove it though I suspect if it hasn't been removed already I think said soggy teddy and plastic stuff will be in Haweswater by the end of this evening given the frisky weather today.
What has peed me off is the charity's response. I deliberately didn't contact the individual to try and keep some distance and be sensitive to his situation. It was the total lack of acknowledgement from a charity that leaving non biodegradeable memorials / stuff lying around in wild places is in anyway wrong and the implication that this individual's grief trumps any other considerations. I also feel quite strongly that however terrible a personal loss this is and however much good work the charity does, I don't want the good cause and grief imposed on me in places I go to clear my head and to enjoy the simplicity of the mountains. But it's very difficult to say that without sounding like a callous psychopath (which I'm not, honest).
I probably won't reply to the charity as I don't think it'll do any good. I'm not sure about contacting the Board of Trustees though that might be an option. I wondered about asking the BMC to write a quick email but maybe that's just inflaming the whole situation. Anyhow, at least I feel a bit reassured that some of ukc agree with me!
I will make a quick trip up there tomorrow and remove it though I suspect if it hasn't been removed already I think said soggy teddy and plastic stuff will be in Haweswater by the end of this evening given the frisky weather today.
What has peed me off is the charity's response. I deliberately didn't contact the individual to try and keep some distance and be sensitive to his situation. It was the total lack of acknowledgement from a charity that leaving non biodegradeable memorials / stuff lying around in wild places is in anyway wrong and the implication that this individual's grief trumps any other considerations. I also feel quite strongly that however terrible a personal loss this is and however much good work the charity does, I don't want the good cause and grief imposed on me in places I go to clear my head and to enjoy the simplicity of the mountains. But it's very difficult to say that without sounding like a callous psychopath (which I'm not, honest).
I probably won't reply to the charity as I don't think it'll do any good. I'm not sure about contacting the Board of Trustees though that might be an option. I wondered about asking the BMC to write a quick email but maybe that's just inflaming the whole situation. Anyhow, at least I feel a bit reassured that some of ukc agree with me!
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
Rather than the "rights and wrongs" of it all, I'd likely take the tack that if these items are being left in fairly remote places then they are going to be encountered mostly by people with a mindset similar to the one you have regarding their inappropriateness, and so do nothing to garner positive feelings towards the charity involved and possibly are likely to create some negative associations.
While many people engage in selfless, genuinely well intentioned, acts for a charity in their own time, I have a less than wholly positive set of experiences with those who work full time in the sector. It is less than certain that you will have corresponded with someone at the charity who is an all round good egg. They might only be switched on to a single issue because that is their job rather than it being "a good thing." Presenting a different set of concerns to them might well have gone right over their head.
Rather than the "rights and wrongs" of it all, I'd likely take the tack that if these items are being left in fairly remote places then they are going to be encountered mostly by people with a mindset similar to the one you have regarding their inappropriateness, and so do nothing to garner positive feelings towards the charity involved and possibly are likely to create some negative associations.
While many people engage in selfless, genuinely well intentioned, acts for a charity in their own time, I have a less than wholly positive set of experiences with those who work full time in the sector. It is less than certain that you will have corresponded with someone at the charity who is an all round good egg. They might only be switched on to a single issue because that is their job rather than it being "a good thing." Presenting a different set of concerns to them might well have gone right over their head.
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In reply to ultrabumbly:
I take your point but I think it was the person who set up the charity that replied to my email, they told me that they had suffered the same loss as the individual doing the challenge - so that's a reason that I feel it would be insensitive to pursue the argument with that person as well.
I take your point but I think it was the person who set up the charity that replied to my email, they told me that they had suffered the same loss as the individual doing the challenge - so that's a reason that I feel it would be insensitive to pursue the argument with that person as well.
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
That is just emotional blackmail. The self-obsessed and more than a few morons inhabit 'charity'.
That is just emotional blackmail. The self-obsessed and more than a few morons inhabit 'charity'.
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
Collect the 'memorial' bits and pieces and send them to the charity, in hopes of getting them to understand how quickly it degrades into pure litter? It they start to receive a series of soggy teddy bears they might begin to get the message.
Collect the 'memorial' bits and pieces and send them to the charity, in hopes of getting them to understand how quickly it degrades into pure litter? It they start to receive a series of soggy teddy bears they might begin to get the message.
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In reply to DaveHK:
I've found what I suspect to be the same memorial tucked into the cairns on a couple of Munro summits this year although I'm sure I've seen them previously. The laminate has a picture of the person on the left hand side, poem on the right and was left by his parents , I took a photo to look up and find a back story so know the name but don't want to mention that on here. My general feeling is while I've no doubt he was a great loss to the family these shouldn't be left where they are.
> Just take it away and bin it like any other litter. That's what I did with the laminated photo and poem I found on top of a Munro recently.
I've found what I suspect to be the same memorial tucked into the cairns on a couple of Munro summits this year although I'm sure I've seen them previously. The laminate has a picture of the person on the left hand side, poem on the right and was left by his parents , I took a photo to look up and find a back story so know the name but don't want to mention that on here. My general feeling is while I've no doubt he was a great loss to the family these shouldn't be left where they are.
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In reply to ultrabumbly:
I think that although the majority here express their disgust at leaving such items (rubbish) on the hills, society at large is probably going to side with the litterer.
Imagine if you saw someone leaving this stuff on a hill, and were offended by it. Maybe your walk then took you back over that same summit, by which time the litterer is nowhere to be seen. You gather up the rubbish and head down to the car park . Because you move faster, you've arrived down there at the same time as them , but you haven't noticed them ( but they see you) as you chuck the stuff in the bin. There's a distinct possibility that you might be assaulted. However, you'd be cast as the baddie if the assault reached the magistrate.
There are very few situations where thwarting the mountain disposal of mementos to grandad is going to been seen as the done thing by society at large. Having said that, I guess you might even be feted as a hero- if , for example, the highly implausible scenario of said teddy having been placed in a burning carriage of the Snowdon summit train, and the brakes released were to occur.
But when it's just teddy bear and associated sh1te being chucked in a bin, the papers would carry the story, complete with tearful little child ( whose toy it was- she wanted her favourite granddad (who doubtless, loved Mount Snowdon), to have it). Cue crestfallen pic of her father had trekked up the mountain to honour the deceased....etc.
> Rather than the "rights and wrongs" of it all, I'd likely take the tack that if these items are being left in fairly remote places then they are going to be encountered mostly by people with a mindset similar to the one you have regarding their inappropriateness, and so do nothing to garner positive feelings towards the charity involved and possibly are likely to create some negative associations.
I think that although the majority here express their disgust at leaving such items (rubbish) on the hills, society at large is probably going to side with the litterer.
Imagine if you saw someone leaving this stuff on a hill, and were offended by it. Maybe your walk then took you back over that same summit, by which time the litterer is nowhere to be seen. You gather up the rubbish and head down to the car park . Because you move faster, you've arrived down there at the same time as them , but you haven't noticed them ( but they see you) as you chuck the stuff in the bin. There's a distinct possibility that you might be assaulted. However, you'd be cast as the baddie if the assault reached the magistrate.
There are very few situations where thwarting the mountain disposal of mementos to grandad is going to been seen as the done thing by society at large. Having said that, I guess you might even be feted as a hero- if , for example, the highly implausible scenario of said teddy having been placed in a burning carriage of the Snowdon summit train, and the brakes released were to occur.
But when it's just teddy bear and associated sh1te being chucked in a bin, the papers would carry the story, complete with tearful little child ( whose toy it was- she wanted her favourite granddad (who doubtless, loved Mount Snowdon), to have it). Cue crestfallen pic of her father had trekked up the mountain to honour the deceased....etc.
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I've been up the hill this morning and the stuff has gone. Hopefully removed by someone rather than blown away to rot very slowly on another part of the hill. Yes sending the pile of soggy litter to the charity had crossed my mind!
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
I had a wander up Helvellyn t'other week and there memorials everywhere, well I counted at least three. One was for a fox hunter, one about a dog and one to do with aeroplanes. Adding to the character of the place or worthy of removal?
I had a wander up Helvellyn t'other week and there memorials everywhere, well I counted at least three. One was for a fox hunter, one about a dog and one to do with aeroplanes. Adding to the character of the place or worthy of removal?
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In reply to Bingers:
They've become an integral part of the honeypot areas of the Himalaya. I suppose they're more acceptable in some locations because they are memorials to climbers?
Getting back to memorials on UK mountains, whilst were getting rid of them, can we get rid of all the bloody cairns at the same time?
> I had a wander up Helvellyn t'other week and there memorials everywhere, well I counted at least three. One was for a fox hunter, one about a dog and one to do with aeroplanes. Adding to the character of the place or worthy of removal?
They've become an integral part of the honeypot areas of the Himalaya. I suppose they're more acceptable in some locations because they are memorials to climbers?
Getting back to memorials on UK mountains, whilst were getting rid of them, can we get rid of all the bloody cairns at the same time?
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In reply to Goucho:
I did mean Helvellyn in the Lake District rather than its lesser known namesake in the Himalaya.
> They've become an integral part of the honeypot areas of the Himalaya.
I did mean Helvellyn in the Lake District rather than its lesser known namesake in the Himalaya.
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
Oh, a laminated piece of paper hidden in the cairn? Let's pull that out, maybe it's something interesting. Oh? I go hill walking to escape from people and get some "me time", thanks for reminding that someone died.
I honestly have no idea why is that even a thing. It does not serve any purpose...
Oh, a laminated piece of paper hidden in the cairn? Let's pull that out, maybe it's something interesting. Oh? I go hill walking to escape from people and get some "me time", thanks for reminding that someone died.
I honestly have no idea why is that even a thing. It does not serve any purpose...
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
Lots of thought on this contentious issue can be found on this thread http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=609795
Lots of thought on this contentious issue can be found on this thread http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=609795
In reply to drmarten:
Sounds the same. I wonder what they think will happen to these after they leave them?
> I've found what I suspect to be the same memorial tucked into the cairns on a couple of Munro summits this year although I'm sure I've seen them previously. The laminate has a picture of the person on the left hand side, poem on the right.
Sounds the same. I wonder what they think will happen to these after they leave them?
In reply to Removed Usersmm:
Just point the charity at this thread and maybe they'll get an idea of how unacceptable this sort of thing is to the outdoor community in general?
Just point the charity at this thread and maybe they'll get an idea of how unacceptable this sort of thing is to the outdoor community in general?
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In reply to Removed Usersmm: I got a right bollocking from a National Park Warden when I was scattering my granfather's remains at the top of Skiddaw last year - on balance though, we should have cremated him first.
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In reply to blackmountainbiker:
I (accidentally) stood in someone's grandad last year and when I got home I still had some of the cremated ash on my boots. I thought it fitting that I wiped my boots over the veg patch. My wife didn't!
I (accidentally) stood in someone's grandad last year and when I got home I still had some of the cremated ash on my boots. I thought it fitting that I wiped my boots over the veg patch. My wife didn't!
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
At least its better than this one which was stuck to a rock with brown silicone on the way up to Harter Fell from Nan Bield, it's not there anymore......
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=238608
At least its better than this one which was stuck to a rock with brown silicone on the way up to Harter Fell from Nan Bield, it's not there anymore......
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=238608
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In reply to Removed Usersmm:
I've seen this a lot also, and it's most common at roadsides. There always seems to be some decaying posies at surprise view bend as well. Roadsides aren't for me to comment on, but in the mountains I'd incline to the view that it is the effort made to place the tribute that is important to those placing it, not the enduring presence of the tribute. Subsequently I'd be inclined to leave very fresh memorials but remove those which had started to deteriorate and discretely dispose of them. I'd also make efforts to ensure that my loved ones did something more useful like raised money for MR or a mountain conservation organisation like JMT and didn't feel obliged to leave a trite poem in a plastic sleeve in pen that ran when it was wet;
"This is in memory of dear DerwentDiluted,
He loved this place so we thought we'd pollute it"
I've seen this a lot also, and it's most common at roadsides. There always seems to be some decaying posies at surprise view bend as well. Roadsides aren't for me to comment on, but in the mountains I'd incline to the view that it is the effort made to place the tribute that is important to those placing it, not the enduring presence of the tribute. Subsequently I'd be inclined to leave very fresh memorials but remove those which had started to deteriorate and discretely dispose of them. I'd also make efforts to ensure that my loved ones did something more useful like raised money for MR or a mountain conservation organisation like JMT and didn't feel obliged to leave a trite poem in a plastic sleeve in pen that ran when it was wet;
"This is in memory of dear DerwentDiluted,
He loved this place so we thought we'd pollute it"
Post edited at 08:34
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In reply to DerwentDiluted:
Ha ha. One 'like' is not enough for that one.
Oh, and speaking of the Derwent - there's a tribute, you might even call it a shrine, to a young boy at the side of the river between Matlock and Matlock Bath. It's just next to the steps that go down to the water's edge by the slalom course - cards, teddies, etc. in a pretty poor condition, more recently topped up with a fresh batch of birthday cards. It's a pretty sorry sight. I did wonder if the poor kid might have drowned in the river, but no mention in the local news that I can find.
Difficult innit. Part of me wants to collect it up and tidy it away (in many other places I would have done), it really shouldn't be there, but then again it isn't really doing any harm either.
> "This is in memory of dear DerwentDiluted,
> He loved this place so we thought we'd pollute it"
> He loved this place so we thought we'd pollute it"
Ha ha. One 'like' is not enough for that one.
Oh, and speaking of the Derwent - there's a tribute, you might even call it a shrine, to a young boy at the side of the river between Matlock and Matlock Bath. It's just next to the steps that go down to the water's edge by the slalom course - cards, teddies, etc. in a pretty poor condition, more recently topped up with a fresh batch of birthday cards. It's a pretty sorry sight. I did wonder if the poor kid might have drowned in the river, but no mention in the local news that I can find.
Difficult innit. Part of me wants to collect it up and tidy it away (in many other places I would have done), it really shouldn't be there, but then again it isn't really doing any harm either.
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