UKC

Learning to lead club?

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 flopsicle 10 Sep 2016
Just wondered who here is currently learning to lead? (disclaimer - I know you never stop learning, just mean L plate stage where it's bleedin' obvious!).

I wondered if something like fit club might be fun/helpful to share ups and downs, ideas and try to stay on track through winter?

My face to face climbing companions either aren't leading or are already rather good at it!
 GridNorth 10 Sep 2016
In reply to flopsicle:
Looking at this and some of your other posts I think you are attaching far too much significance to what is required to lead climbs. It should be a one hour lesson not a six month course. I'm saying this, not to be superior, but rather to help you overcome what is apparently a big stumbling block for you, so please do not take offence. It's simply a matter of knowing how to tie on, belay and place gear. The rest of it is just practice and a bit of "bottle", with that comes experience. Just do it.

Forgive me if that sounds harsh, I've been climbing that long that I do things instinctively and sometimes forget that it can be very challenging for some people but I really cannot see what the fuss is about. Your post implies that for you learning to lead is a long, drawn out affair.

Al
Post edited at 10:09
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OP flopsicle 10 Sep 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

I think that's why I'd like to natter to others learning. I can't really relate to anything you've said. From the time it takes me to arrange my gear, the time it takes to assess which bit of gear to use, the process of checking the gear, getting feedback and being open to it from a second, the level of thought I put into the belay on top, the difference in my grade learning outdoors - all of it. I have L plates!

I'm enjoying the process but for me an hour would never have it done. (BTW - I am doing it!)
 GridNorth 10 Sep 2016
In reply to flopsicle:

Fair enough and good for you. I'll tuck my neck in

Al
OP flopsicle 10 Sep 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

No offence taken - maybe I learn slow but I'm definitely still learning!
 Mick Ward 10 Sep 2016
In reply to flopsicle:

> I wondered if something like fit club might be fun/helpful to share ups and downs, ideas and try to stay on track through winter?

Hmm... winter's not the best time. Back in the day (with few climbing walls), folk would start around March time, when the weather started to get better, lead all through the summer and reach a peak around September time. Then they'd tick over during the winter. Now obviously a lot of hard grit gets done in winter (because of far better friction) but the March/September, then ticking over model is still probably a reasonable one for most.

To state the obvious - it's now September!

Also, if you're learning from fellow newbies, are you learning good stuff, stuff or... bad stuff?

OK, let's step back. What does leading involve:

Selecting an appropriate route.

Route finding.

Doing the moves.

Arranging pro.

Belaying.

Let's start with doing the moves. Don't try to lead VS if 4c moves are your limit. But, if you're getting up, say F5 at the wall, seconding VS competently (and yes, you need someone to second!), then it's reasonable (imho) to look at leading a Diff or V Diff. By dropping grades, you've got loads extra in the tank.

Selecting an appropriate route. In my experience, most aspirant leaders get this totally wrong. Best to ask someone (e.g. Offwidth). Lower graded routes get polished. So avoid limestone horrors. Avoid places such as Birchen. Go to Stanage and find relatively unpolished cracks (maybe in a relatively unpopular part). Why cracks? So they can be filled with pro.

Arranging pro. You can place gear on cracks at the bottom of crags and have someone competent critique them. Pull on 'em - see what happens. Pull on 'em sideways (be careful) - see what happens.

Same with belays. You can practise setting up belays and have them critiqued.

Route finding - easier - you're following a crack.

Placing gear - easier - you're following a crack.

Now, sooner or later, you're going to have to leave cracks and I've got a tactic for what to do then. But am a bit knackered writing this and don't want to overload you.

The common denominator to all of the above is this: think tactically. In my experience, more than 80% of climbers could get significantly better at thinking tactically.

Hope this helps.

Mick

 jezb1 10 Sep 2016
In reply to flopsicle:
Enjoy getting in to leading! Such an exciting time in your climbing career, soooooo much to see, do and explore

I reckon there's plenty of good weather to be had before winter sets in but use the winter well, practicing technique, falling etc indoors. Many walls have little sections where you can practice set ups, simple self rescue stuff and such like to.

Have fun!
Post edited at 11:00
 David Riley 10 Sep 2016
In reply to flopsicle:

I may be jumping to conclusions. But when I started climbing I wanted to lead scary vertical stuff straight away. So I fell off every time and the success or failure of my gear was obvious. Fear taught me to lead very quickly and kept me from injury.
It seems to me that if you take the approach "I will always lead within my abilities" and "I will never fall", then you lose the feedback path that tests everything you do and builds confidence.
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 atlantis 11 Sep 2016
In reply to flopsicle:
It doesn't hurt to do a trad lead course, I did with a Squamish rock guide, and no regrets, they check and assess your placements, give good sound knowledge and advice, and have you lead a climb as part of the course after the learnings done, and it's solid learning, it can be a day, or two days, mine was an intensive day course at Squamish.

I'd not listen to anyone saying you can learn in an hour, but that's me.. My life in your hands etc, and vice versa. Safety first. I'm more wary of those that teach themselves to be honest.
Post edited at 02:49
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OP flopsicle 11 Sep 2016
In reply to flopsicle:

Thanks for all the info. I am leading and trying hard to get as much practice as possible, inbtween work and my little un.

I've led 8 so far, hoping to make that 10 today. My best was a V.diff. Technically I've had a huge headstart with indoor climbing and I get why that's not ideal but it was that or not climb. I have no notion of climbing the same grade outdoors because it is so different and I'm out my comfort zone for a lot of the time.

It isn't the most ideal time to start leading but I'm glad I did rather than wait till Spring. There are lots of good people around me - just no-one where I'm at. That why I wondered if there were others in the same boat. I now realise a mutual encouragement thread isn't attractive as an idea.

I'm going to keep trying to get climbing in the good weather, take A/L on sunny days, get out on Sundays and swot my rope work. Everyone is different but to me it is a biggy; I have to come home to my kid, I get scared of heights and I'm very particular to learn things well. I'm going to be 'over thinking' it in other people's eyes but that's life!

Thanks again all...

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