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Keswick MRT concerned about pay phone removal

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 marsbar 12 Sep 2016

From Facebook Keswick MRT page.

There are plans to remove the Payphone at Seathwaite in Borrowdale.
Although this phone box may get little day to day use in this age of mobile phones. It has been, and still is a real lifeline during emergencies. There is no phone reception on any network at the head of the valley and so it remains the only public form of communication to the police and mountain rescue.
You can help.
If you feel that this is an emergency asset worth keeping please follow this link:
(link to follow)
and press the button to comment on the application.

http://planning.allerdale.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?P...
Post edited at 17:43
 Trangia 12 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

Done. I have objected to the proposal to remove this phone box.

 mark burley 12 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

I have dropped down from the hill to report in using this phone on multi day wild camps.
OP marsbar 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Trangia:

Thanks. I hope this one won't be removed, it wouldn't be sensible.
OP marsbar 12 Sep 2016
In reply to mark burley:

Please can you click on the link to the local council and tell them this, if you didn't already. Thanks
 summo 12 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:
I presume LDSAMRA / Keswick MRT can readily collate some stats on how many callouts the box has initiated over the past 5 years? This would justify their case with BT instantly.

I also presume they point to the fact the farm isn't occupied and/or refuse to accept anyone wishing to make a genuine 999 call from their house?

Following the logic that it would be someone running off the hills, that might need to call 999, couldn't they just call for help whilst actually higher up on the hill side in the first place. Why delay 20-30mins running down from say Great End or Gillercombe, before making the call? Better to stay with a Cas, than leave etc..

I have no opinion either way, but it sounds like nostalgia getting mixed up with practicalities, so I thought I'd play a little devils advocate.
Post edited at 21:13
OP marsbar 12 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:

I don't think there is any signal up there from any network.

You could of course argue for putting a mast up there, but I don't expect it would go well.
 Dave the Rave 12 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:

What if they don't have mobile phones or the battery has gone?
 3leggeddog 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Dave the Rave:

What if they don't have 2p?
 bouldery bits 12 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

I have registered my objection.

Thankyou for bringing this to our attention.
 mark burley 12 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

Yes sorry I didn't make it clear. Done already
 Timmd 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Trangia:

> Done. I have objected to the proposal to remove this phone box.

Ditto.
In reply to marsbar:

I used this phonebox to try and locate some people that were trying to find us in the area when I was staying at the hut - no signal unless you drive half way to Capel Curig if I remember correctly.
 Roadrunner5 13 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

> I don't think there is any signal up there from any network.

> You could of course argue for putting a mast up there, but I don't expect it would go well.

TBH like Summo then maybe just add a tower there..

In the US, we have trees, so masts are disguised as trees, I've seen them in the UK but they stand out. You can tell them up close but they dont distract from a long distance view.

We also have fire towers so many of those are signal towers so signal is pretty good if you just head high here.

I think preserve the odd few, for now, but most need to go.
1
 summo 13 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

> I don't think there is any signal up there from any network.

I know with certainty that phones work there with a little height, so you could be off up towards Glaramara, Great End or Gillercombe and get service. Which network doesn't matter, as with 999 calls it's cross network.

No mobile, no battery, genuine emergency; I sure the farmer will be happy to let you initiate a callout from their phone. There are other places with phones just a little further along the track too. It's hardly remote.

If you used this as a benchmark standard for boxes, BT would need to order another 1000 to put at road heads in Scotland, central wales and Northern Pennines, not take them out.
 andy 13 Sep 2016
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

> I used this phonebox to try and locate some people that were trying to find us in the area when I was staying at the hut - no signal unless you drive half way to Capel Curig if I remember correctly.

I suspect you'll get a signal rather closer than Preston...
 Pete Pozman 13 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

I have submitted my objection on grounds of public safety. If anyone wants to object may I advise you cite your own status as an expert be it mountain professional, mountaineer, climber,driver etc as, in my experience, planning committees give extra weight to the opinion of experts. And don't underestimate your expertise for the sake of modesty.
OP marsbar 13 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:

Dont be ridiculous. No one is suggesting putting in new phone boxes.

If you want to argue why not start a thread on religion.
 summo 13 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

> Dont be ridiculous. No one is suggesting putting in new phone boxes.

I never said they were, I said if the criteria by which boxes should be placed is that of the seathwaite one, then there should be many more around the UK. I didn't say there should be, or would be.

Seathwaite is just but one road head out of dozens that walkers use in remote places with poor phone service, it is probably the exception in that it has a phone box.

1
OP marsbar 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Roadrunner5:

This is one of a list of about 50 in that area that are being removed if no one objects. I expect other areas will be having the same at some point.
>
> I think preserve the odd few, for now, but most need to go.

I'm sure that will be the case. Keswick MRT say this one is useful and I'd like to support them. I'm not forcing anyone else to join in.

 summo 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Pete Pozman:

> I have submitted my objection on grounds of public safety.

I think the outcome should be settled on fact. Phone records of the past 5 years and a specific map showing phone coverage for 999 calls on the hillside (ie cross network) and the number of landlines in farms that could be utilised in an emergency. Posterity and nostalgia for red boxes should not really sway the argument.

If phone coverage is so bad. Why aren't the locals in the valley bottom desperate to keep it, or using it now? The hill users have the option of high ground compared to those living in the bottom.

If there is a strong evidence based case then BT will back down, as if anything went wrong in the future due to a lack of a red box. It would be to blame.

Some countries would place a dedicated emergency phone, (UK motorway style), a direct link to an operator, only a post mounted weather proof box so it is cheap to keep etc... Sadly I think it would just get vandalised with in months.
1
OP marsbar 13 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:

I'm bored of arguing with people who don't even live here.

I posted to give the information about the consultation and in support of MRT.
 Trangia 13 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:
>
>or refuse to accept anyone wishing to make a genuine 999 call from their house?
>

Bloody hell! Is that true?

I once saw people trapped by the rising tide below the cliffs near Hastings. No mobile reception, so I ran a mile along the cliff tops to a caravan park, where I went into the owners office. I explained the situation to him and asked to use his phone to ring the Coastguard. He refused and told me t go to the public phone box which was about another quarter mile away.

It's hard to believe that there are selfish people who can be so dispassionate and unfeeling in a genuine emergency situation.....

Once I got through to the Coastguard they quickly called out the Inshore Lifeboat who rescued the stranded youths.
Post edited at 08:08
 summo 13 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:
Don't be bitter because you fought an argument based on nostalgia not fact.

> I'm bored of arguing with people who don't even live here.

I've probably parked there a 100 plus times in my life, I still use the UK hills when I return. I can have an opinion (I think).

I'm sure if Keswick team have a strong case they'll win, but it should really be pushed through by LDSAMRA as they aren't the only lakes team covering that area, Cockermouth for example gets down there nearly as much. Using LDSAMRA or even the UK council will give it more push and protect other red boxes around the UK, perhaps in areas of greater need. There are also other users of the wild places who can be brought on board at a national level, but might not even be aware if they aren't in the news feed of Keswick MRT etc.. Better to have one decisive body, not umpteen different online petitions, although they are good at raising initial awareness.
Post edited at 08:09
1
 summo 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Trangia:

> >or refuse to accept anyone wishing to make a genuine 999 call from their house?

Of course not, that's exactly my point, there are other options for people in a real emergency, with no mobile, lost and stumbled off the hill in the wrong direction and need a taxi to wasdale etc.. etc..
 Trangia 13 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:
Sorry I misunderstood your post. I thought you were stating a fact.

Another point is that public phones are marked on OS maps. Anyone running down for help is likely to head for that if they can't get a cell phone signal. OK once a phone box has been removed it will no longer be marked on reprints, but people keep old maps for decades - I certainly don't renew mine every time there is a reprint.

I think this is something the Planners need to take account of.

As for usage stats, is that really relevant? If a call from a public phone box results in just one life saved, then isn't it worth it?
Post edited at 08:35
 Pete Pozman 13 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:

> I think the outcome should be settled on fact. Phone records of the past 5 years and a specific map showing phone coverage for 999 calls on the hillside (ie cross network) and the number of landlines in farms that could be utilised in an emergency. Posterity and nostalgia for red boxes should not really sway the argument.

> If phone coverage is so bad. Why aren't the locals in the valley bottom desperate to keep it, or using it now? The hill users have the option of high ground compared to those living in the bottom.

> If there is a strong evidence based case then BT will back down, as if anything went wrong in the future due to a lack of a red box. It would be to blame.

> Some countries would place a dedicated emergency phone, (UK motorway style), a direct link to an operator, only a post mounted weather proof box so it is cheap to keep etc... Sadly I think it would just get vandalised with in months.

I can't understand why you would want to argue about this issue.
1
 Sir Chasm 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Pete Pozman:

> I can't understand why you would want to argue about this issue.

It's a big issue in Sweden.

 MG 13 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:

It would be interesting to see how much use the phone gets for emergencies, I agree. Do people really walk down the hill assuming the phone is still there and functional to call for help, rather than stopping at the first house/farm/pub they come to?
 Sir Chasm 13 Sep 2016
In reply to MG:

I've not seen the pub, is it any good?
 Trangia 14 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

Splendid news. Thank you for drawing the matter to our attention.
 Pete Pozman 14 Sep 2016
In reply to Trangia:

Result! I think BT should ask police and MRT s etc where they would like phone boxes maintained and even installed. It's plain stupid that we are putting in defibrillator points and at the same time pulling out emergency phone points. How much does it cost for God's sake?
 FesteringSore 14 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

Good news indeed. Another good deed by the MRT.
 FesteringSore 14 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

Local newspaper headline:
"Keswick MRT Rescue Phone Box"
 Toerag 14 Sep 2016
In reply to 3leggeddog:

> What if they don't have 2p?

Emergency calls are free. Also, emergency calls made from mobiles will use any network , not just the one the phone belongs to.

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