UKC

AustraliaMen at Work (E3 6a)
I led this route onsight many (25 to 30) years ago without fuss and did it again today on the shunt, unfortunately with a deal of fuss and, all too predictably, finding it desperate. The point that struck me most was that although it is a decent quality route it still had only the original bolts which all look pretty iffy today. I would be happy to replace the bolts myself sometime if only for old times sake. Is it scheduled for attention by anyone else? If I replace the bolts myself should it be like for like (there are some spicy-ish runouts) or as a sport route (I suspect I already know the likely UKC answer on this one but worth asking anyway)?

In reply to harold walmsley:

Would suggest you consult the FA.

Mick

In reply to harold walmsley:

I've been keen to do this for a few years and would certainly appreciate someone putting the time in to rebolt. I'd be happy to lend a hand, I have plenty of bolts and hangers.

In reply to harold walmsley:

i would think trying to get hold of the FA but if you can't then like-for-like in terms of distance seems reasonable.

In reply to harold walmsley:
I would say like for like unless you can do a better job. For instance if a bolt is a really long reach from a good hold it would favour taller climbers and be harder for the short, so therefore place it lower where it's good for everyone. Another example might be moving a bolt to reduce rope drag. If the route has runouts respect the FAs intention and preserve them. I don't think you have to stick to the exact same number of bolts, but it should probably be about the same. The most important thing is preserving the character of route and understanding and respecting the FAs intentions. These are just generalizations though as I don't know that particular route.

In reply to harold walmsley:
If it's one of those run out bolted slate routes (the grade suggests it is, otherwise it would get a sport grade), any rebolting has to be like for like, otherwise you are changing the character of the route.

In reply to harold walmsley:

I also did it in the late 80s and thought it was excellent. I was up there this summer and did some nearby routes. The bolts on Men At Work certainly seem well past their best and I remember thinking I wouldn't want to climb it with those bolts. I can't see anyone complaining if you rebolt it bolt for bolt, but please don't add any more. Regardless of the ethics, it's really not that scary (with trustworthy bolts!), otherwise it would be E4 or E5, and there are plenty of "proper" clip-ups on this level.

In reply to edwardwoodward:

OK, the consensus is clear enough. Sometime this winter I will re-bolt it like for like. At the moment you need to top out on the level above and find a belay (easy enough or I couldn't have shunted it). I might also consider adding a lower off if nobody objects.

Please comment if you object to a lower off.

In reply to harold walmsley:

Is it not possible to cut the heads off the old bolts then drill them out and use the same holes?

In reply to Steve Perry:

I think it can be done but you need special drill bits. I think Jim Titt has either posted something on this or mentioned it on his website. It is easy enough just to cut the old heads off flush with the rock using an angle grinder and then place new ones reasonably close. This is what I would propose to do. It is better than has generally been done for bolt replacement so far on slate: usually the old ones have just been left in place next to the new ones so I think it would be a reasonable compromise.

In reply to harold walmsley:

Yes, you would need a pretty good high speed steel drill bit and maybe a few of them. Sounds like a good compromise you've suggested anyway, especially cutting the old ones flush. Good luck.