/ Go to bloody Lancashire!

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efrance24234 - on 18 Sep 2016
I drove past Stanage today and Jesus Christ! There must have been over 500 climbers there, it just looked awfull! I really couldn't think of anything worst than being sat up there waiting for a route listening to the crap that climbers come out with, and I am sure I'm not the only one. It's just destroying the place, trashing routes, paths, and the road verges.

New guide book for Lancashire, such good climbing and you're likley to have crags to yourself. You will not be dissapointed!

That is all 😊
efrance24234 - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:
Oh and the traffic! Awful!
DerwentDiluted - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

> I drove past Stanage today and Jesus Christ!

Calvary (E4 6a)?

Graeme Hammond - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:
One of reason I try to avoid going at all costs to stanage at the weekend. Only 6 cars there on Friday evening though so almost had the place to myself and it was magical. Saturday I climbed brilliant routes and we were the only climbers as far as I know at Rylstone. Yes people want to do the classics who drive up from London but some people Sheffield really ought to get a bit more imagination it seems at times
Post edited at 19:57
EddInaBox on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

> ....I really couldn't think of anything worst than being sat up there waiting for a route listening to the crap that climbers come out with...

I can think of something worse... sitting in front of a computer reading the crap that climbers come out with!
deacondeacon - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

Narw Stanage is Jerusalem. Calvary is in Wilton 1 somewhere.
astley007 - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234: cheers for the guidebook plug Elliot,but just
leave the leemings to themselves there and they will slowly! destroy their natural environment.
Dont encourage them come over here and spoil ours!!!
Cheers
Nick B


McKEuan - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

Whos the new guide by?!?! Sounds interesting
Emilio Bachini - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

My god, what right do they have to be there? Who do they think they are?
Goucho on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to Graeme Hammond:

> One of reason I try to avoid going at all costs to stanage at the weekend. Only 6 cars there on Friday evening though so almost had the place to myself and it was magical. Saturday I climbed brilliant routes and we were the only climbers as far as I know at Rylstone. Yes people want to do the classics who drive up from London but some people Sheffield really ought to get a bit more imagination it seems at times

You'd be amazed how many people from Manchester & Sheffield are completely unaware that Stanage is 5 miles long, and that the Popular & Plantation areas are far from being what Stanage is all about.
There are hundred's of gems littered all along it, but unfortunately it seems the sheep/herd mentality is getting worse with each generation.
Graeme Hammond - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to Goucho:

Or have never heard of the Chew Valley let alone climbed there.
Hardonicus - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Long may it remain so!
Goucho on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to Graeme Hammond:

> Or have never heard of the Chew Valley let alone climbed there.

mrphilipoldham - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

I was at Burbage North, which was busy at the first couple of sections with groups but it soon petered out towards the Sentinel area. Had a terrible days climbing though.. back to Western grit for a while I think.
JimHolmes69 - on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

Well said, the climbing in Lancashire is absolutely brilliant as good as anything in the Peak and I like it there. Wilton, Anglezarke, Denham, Stanworth and many more are great venues. Just open your eyes and you too could see the light in Lancashire.
Timmd on 18 Sep 2016
In reply to astley007:

> cheers for the guidebook plug Elliot,but just
> leave the leemings to themselves there and they will slowly! destroy their natural environment.
> Dont encourage them come over here and spoil ours!!!
> Cheers
> Nick B

Helpful 'bump' to bring Lancashire to wider attention.
abseil on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Goucho:

> You'd be amazed how many people from Manchester & Sheffield are completely unaware that Stanage is 5 miles long, and that the Popular & Plantation areas are far from being what Stanage is all about....

Right, but nothing amazes me... what really opened my eyes about people and beautiful places was what Chuck Pratt wrote in 1970 in 'The View From Deadhorse Point':

"...just as the tourists in Yosemite, content to remain in the security of the lodge, will watch movies of Yosemite Falls rather than walk the one-quarter mile to experience directly the spray from the second highest waterfall on Earth. Such is the level of their curiosity."

I'm not saying Stanage climbers are like those tourists - I was just reminded of Chuck by your comment. PS Here's a link to the full article [it also has a great story about Navajos in it]:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/109581/The-View-From-Deadhorse-Point-Article-from-1970
craig h - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

What is this crag called Lancashire you talk about?
Adrien - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

On a similar note, I used to tell people going to Font to explore areas other than Bas Cuvier to spread out the impact, but I've come to think that as nature use grows and there's nothing we can do about it, perhaps it's better to just let people trash those areas (the 'classics') that have already been irreversibly damaged (polished/trampled/etc.) rather than damage a little more areas, which I suppose would be better for all the fauna and flora.
Mick Ward - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Goucho:

> There are hundred's of gems littered all along it, but unfortunately it seems the sheep/herd mentality is getting worse with each generation.

Was talking about this with my climbing partner (same age) yesterday. Back in the day, with guidebooks which didn't give much away, there was a tradition of going to out of the way places to see what they were like. OK half the time they were crap but you'd meet some 'interesting' locals, have some banter, tick what could be ticked, etc. And, then, if it was really crap, you'd drop a hint about it being brilliant to lure in your gullible mates. But as the late Brian Cropper used to say, you'd go and have a wee adventure. This kind of exploration was part and parcel of climbing (perhaps because many climbers started with hillwalking?)

Sadly, along with singing in climbers' pubs, this sense of exploration has largely gone. So many climbers seem to regard routes as commodities - the 'price' of grades and stars rather than the value of experience.

Sometimes I look across at Godnor and it's heaving, everybody clustered together as though for protection. And yet, once you want around the corner, you're in another world (not scary, just different). I've never seen anyone walk around the corner...

Mick

Bulls Crack - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

It's further to drive for most and not really that good if you want to climb on natural grit edges?

Class rant though!
Fredt on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:
I suggest that parking should be limited at, amongst other places, the Popular end. Theoretically it is limited, and if people stuck the hard-standing, it would work. However, people are parking both sides of the road, and well down from the car park.

A couple of weeks ago I was cycling through here and was held up by a traffic jam, as it was gridlocked with vehicles approaching in both directions through what was now a narrow single lane. Knowing the logic of the Peak Park, they will probably solve this by widening the road, and extending the hard standing all the way to the bottom.

Another suggestion; ban mini-buses and campers here. Make them use the Plantation car park. The buses may be a more environmental way of getting there, but the crag is paying the price.

Speaking of which, again, cars, buses and 4WDs parked on the verge between the MRT place and the car park entrance. Despite all the signs asking users to use the car park. And yes, the car park was virtually empty.
Post edited at 10:25
planetmarshall on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

> Oh and the traffic! Awful!

Just pointing out the irony of complaining about the traffic, while being part of the traffic.

trish1968 - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

We were the only people at Pot Scar yesterday now we know where everyone was. Sat we and just another team were at Jack Scout lovely and quiet.
planetmarshall on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Fredt:

> Speaking of which, again, cars, buses and 4WDs parked on the verge between the MRT place and the ca park entrance. Despite all the signs asking users to use the car park. And yes, the car park was virtually empty.

One of my bugbears. Climbers are notoriously tight when it comes to paying for parking, yet somehow manage to find the funds for campervans, flights abroad and a full rack of cams. A 'standup for stanage' sticker costs 15 for a year's parking anywhere at Stanage. I don't think it's much to ask.

davidbeynon - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to trish1968:

I was mightily distressed to encounter another party on the Exmoor coast yesterday. At least we had Cornakey Cliff to ourselves on Saturday.

The Culm coast is the Lancashire of the south. With cream teas.
Antony Mariani - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:
Inspired by the new guide gave Tonacliffe Quarry a try yesterday. Very pleasant spot in the afternoon sun, some interesting and varied routes. It is in good nic at the moment, no doubt cleaned up for its photo's in the new guide. Well worth a few hours, whilst the conditions are good, if climbing upto VS/HVS....queues unlikely!!
Post edited at 10:32
paul mitchell - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Antony Mariani:

I guess dozens of Sheffield climbers will now sell their houses and move to Bolton. Appen.
Rob Davies - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to JimHolmes69:
Stanworth!!!!

The big mistake was not to bury the entire crag under toxic waste, instead of just part of it.
Post edited at 10:54
Offwidth - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:
I've come to realise there is not much you can do about homo lineupeus and homo vergeparkius. Even at Wiltonfest amongst the wiser locals some were umming and arring about the purchase of the brand new guide at the cost of a round of drinks. Mass prescribed unadventureness with penny pinching in odd ways afflicts climbing. As for parking on the verges near the toliets rather than purchasing a cheap as chips Stand up for Stanage sticker with use of a usually only half full carpark????

Out here in Font, toilet paper (and sometimes worse) litters the accesible crags, people honeypot on polish, way too many climbers are too lazy to clean their shoes properly, chalk is overused (it keeps sweat at bay ffs so stop caking the handholds and what possible benefit is to be had for chalking footholds?) and yet some of the wilder places actually need more traffic to keep them clean. Generally though, polish aside, the rock is holding up better than in the Peak grit bouldering honeypots (fewer aggressive brushers? less climbing on damp rock?)
Post edited at 10:59
Goucho on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Mick Ward:
> Was talking about this with my climbing partner (same age) yesterday. Back in the day, with guidebooks which didn't give much away, there was a tradition of going to out of the way places to see what they were like. OK half the time they were crap but you'd meet some 'interesting' locals, have some banter, tick what could be ticked, etc. And, then, if it was really crap, you'd drop a hint about it being brilliant to lure in your gullible mates. But as the late Brian Cropper used to say, you'd go and have a wee adventure. This kind of exploration was part and parcel of climbing (perhaps because many climbers started with hillwalking?)

> Sadly, along with singing in climbers' pubs, this sense of exploration has largely gone. So many climbers seem to regard routes as commodities - the 'price' of grades and stars rather than the value of experience.

> Sometimes I look across at Godnor and it's heaving, everybody clustered together as though for protection. And yet, once you want around the corner, you're in another world (not scary, just different). I've never seen anyone walk around the corner...

> Mick

You might be onto something here Mick.

Like many of my generation (probably the vast majority in fact) I came to climbing by hillwalking - or as it was acceptably called then, rambling.

A 1 or 2 hour walk in to crag was neither here nor there (still isn't in fact) and was actually all part of the fun and adventure.

Even if the weather was a bit iffy, you still went to the crag - I can't be alone in heading off up to Cloggy in the drizzle on the off chance it might get better, only to end up with a slimy thrutch up a classic VS, but still enjoying it all.

But with today's wall bred/sport introduction to climbing, where a 5 minute approach seems to be classed as a slog, is it any wonder that those crags nearest the car are being trashed, while the mountain crags and those little jewels of grit that require a bit more effort to get too, are slowly dissappearing back into the hillsides?

The irony is, that this herd mentality means the modern generation don't realise what glorious routes, climbing, fun and adventures they're missing out on.

But then again, maybe it's not actually adventure they're looking for.?
Post edited at 12:19
planetmarshall on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Goucho:

> The irony is, that this herd mentality means the modern generation don't realise what glorious routes, climbing, fun and adventures they're missing out on.

> But then again, maybe it's not actually adventure they're looking for.?

Having just been reading what Uisdean and Tom have been up to in the last week, I think you're being a bit harsh on the modern generation.

Goucho on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to planetmarshall:

> Having just been reading what Uisdean and Tom have been up to in the last week, I think you're being a bit harsh on the modern generation.

I was talking about the mainstream average, not people like Uisdean, Tom or Pete Graham etc etc etc, who are doing wonderfully impressive and highly adventurous stuff.

But then again you knew that, but couldn't help being awkward - as usual.
Offwidth - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to planetmarshall:
I agree its not entirely generational (there are a good number of adventurous young kids and some conservative elders). It is relatively modern thing though and getting worse: I've never seen Stanage Popular and Burbage North parking as bad as this year (and from what I've seen often due to lazy climbers arriving later than walkers).
Post edited at 12:42
Will Hunt - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:
A was surprised to see a post on a meet-ups forum (not this one) recently, something along the lines of:
"Wanting to go to one of the Peak's quieter spots this weekend. Shall it be Stanage High Neb, Burbage, or Froggatt?"

I was fairly stunned. I thought Stanage, Burbage and Froggatt were the three busiest crags in the peak? Couldn't quite get my head around it.
Droyd on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to planetmarshall:

Quite. On my visit to Dovestone Tor earlier this year the majority of the climbers there (and there were at least 12 my by reckoning) were under 30, I'd say. Conversely, on the few occasions I've been at the Popular End of Stanage at the weekend, the vast majority of people there were probably over 40. That's obviously going on (admittedly subjective) impressions and how old I estimate people to be, but I and most of my regular partners (all under the age of 30 and with an indoor background) are keen on exploring new and obscure crags, whereas I've lost count of the number of times I've heard older climbers at Stanage or Froggatt decide on a route on the basis that they've done it before and know it to be good.
Goucho on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Offwidth:

> I agree its not entirely generational (there are a good number of adventurous young kids and some conservative elders). It is relatively modern thing though and getting worse: I've never seen Stanage Popular and Burbage North parking as bad as this year (and from what I've seen often due to lazy climbers arriving later than walkers).

When I use the term 'modern generation' it means people coming to climbing in this era via a predominantly wall based route. They could be 10, they could be 35. It's about the modern 'culture' of climbing, not the age of the participants.
davidbeynon - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Offwidth:

I don't believe it's a real problem myself. There are as many adventurous climbers as ever, it just doesn't seem that way because they are outnumbered.
planetmarshall on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Goucho:

> But then again you knew that, but couldn't help being awkward - as usual.

I don't think there's any call to get personal. I simply disagree that the 'modern generation' lacks an adventurous spirit when compared to previous generations. The evidence for this is everywhere you care to look, in UKC reports, films at KMF etc.

Gordon Stainforth - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

It's mindboggling, really, how unimaginative people seem to have become and how relatively neglected places like the Chew Valley are.
Goucho on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to planetmarshall:

> I don't think there's any call to get personal. I simply disagree that the 'modern generation' lacks an adventurous spirit when compared to previous generations. The evidence for this is everywhere you care to look, in UKC reports, films at KMF etc.

I never said the modern generation lacks an adventurous spirit, I said there was an increased herd mentality regarding venues.
Timmd on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Goucho:
A guy who lived next door to my brother once noted in a good natured way that when he cycled out the the Peak from Sheffield, he'd find people all gathered around The Norfolk Arms when there was the whole Peak to enjoy.

> But then again, maybe it's not actually adventure they're looking for.?

I don't think it's that modern climbers 'aren't' looking for adventure, because leading in itself always will be, and bouldering above a certain height will be too.

It's probably something a lot of people do - including me. I wonder if the ability to search online for things, can to some degree limit people to what's most well documented on it when it comes to crags and places to go, where as when it was down to going out and having a look - that's what people had to do and the adventure just happened as a consequence?
Post edited at 13:03
Simon Caldwell - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> It's mindboggling, really, how unimaginative people seem to have become and how relatively neglected places like the Chew Valley are.

But go back a few decades and somewhere like Laddow would be crawling with climbers while other crags were deserted. Fashions and preferences change, but honeypotting has been around for a long time.
Valkyrie1968 - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

To bring this back to the original post: Does anyone, even the OP, honestly believe that any crag in Lancashire is anywhere near as good as good for the average climber as the "honeypots" of the eastern Peak? 'good' is clearly subjective, but my point here is: I've visited a few of the Lancashire quarries (nowhere near as many as I'd like) and have enjoyed some of the routes there (again, though, nowhere near as many as I'd like), but don't see how even Wilton, which is generally considered to be the best Lancashire crag in terms of quality/cleanness/grade range has much to offer those not operating at HVS and above (i.e. most of the British climbing population). That's not to say that I don't find the number of people at Stanage on a Saturday deeply off-putting and even a little depressing, but I think that it's understandable: If most climbers enjoy leading somewhere in the range of Severe to VS, and maybe jumping on the odd HVS on a good day, and have limited free time due to jobs/families/etc., why on earth would they drive to Lancashire, which is further away for the majority, has worse traffic infrastructure (and generally requires negotiating the hell that is the M60), and relatively few quality routes in that grade range?
Graeme Hammond - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I always understood laddow used to be busy when the railway ran along the wood head valley and was therefore an easy crag to get to with lots of routes that suited the standards if the day. Compared to crags like stanage that at the time were patrolled by gamekeepers that were non one to friendly to climbers laddow you can be hidden from the valley. Now car ownership and crag access is better it is hardly surprising that more most head to stanage which is in condition all year and has many more classics to climb.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Goucho on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Graeme Hammond:

> I always understood laddow used to be busy when the railway ran along the wood head valley and was therefore an easy crag to get to with lots of routes that suited the standards if the day. Compared to crags like stanage that at the time were patrolled by gamekeepers that were non one to friendly to climbers laddow you can be hidden from the valley. Now car ownership and crag access is better it is hardly surprising that more most head to stanage which is in condition all year and has many more classics to climb.

Persuading people to consider exploring Laddow as a venue might be a big ask, considering getting them to even consider exploring other parts of Stanage is an uphill struggle
Graeme Hammond - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Valkyrie1968:
Totally agree, Lancashire is great but to say as one poster did above it is as brilliant as the peak is complete rubbish. Some individual routes are but overall it is nowhere near as extensive and of a uniform quality. But many of the places in Lancashire make a great day out from the population hot spots of Sheffield, Manchester & Leeds to climb the cream routes and I think it is a shame that more people don't make the effort from these places even just occasionally.
Post edited at 14:28
NigeR on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

Stanage has always been a honeypot crag and always will be. And most folk will always hit the popular and plantation areas too.

It wasn't really that much different 'back in the day'. Stanage, Froggatt, Millstone and the Roaches have historically always been the busiest grit crags as far as I can remember.

Stanage is simply a victim of its own quality.

It's probably more noticeable now, simply because there are more people climbing today than there were 40 years ago, but I bet the percentages and crag ratios are pretty similar?
deacondeacon - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to NigeR:

> Stanage is simply a victim of its own quality.

> It's probably more noticeable now, simply because there are more people climbing today than there were 40 years ago, but I bet the percentages and crag ratios are pretty similar?

I've been climbing A fair bit of trad limestone this summer and I get the impression that it was much more popular back in the day compared to now.
Climbed on PingPong buttress and Central Buttress in Water-cum-jolly and didn't see another sole there. We had a similar experience in Dovedale a while ago.
Stoney is an amazing crag with 3* route after 3* route but we're normally the only people climbing trad routes. Was it ever really the 'Stanage' of the lime?


As for people complaining that Stanage was busy. Of course it was busy, it's the greatest single pitch crag in the uk, it dries quickly, and it's within day trip distance from just about every main city in the uk. I'm more amazed that the car parks aren't full to bursting every dry day of the year.




The New NickB - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Valkyrie1968:

What do you mean by worse traffic infrastructure. I was in the Peak yesterday, the roads were awful, it was a considerable relief to get back on the M60.

nniff - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

We had the Grochan to ourselves on Saturday morning. On Saturday afternoon, even Bus Stop Quarry only had a few people in it, and we'd only gone there to dangle the easiest of easy-access routes in front of a partner who had lost his mojo. On Sunday, we shared Pant Ifan with one other party. We had a lovely time, thank you.
Mick Ward - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to deacondeacon:

> Stoney is an amazing crag with 3* route after 3* route but we're normally the only people climbing trad routes. Was it ever really the 'Stanage' of the lime?

More the Curbar of the lime.

But yes, it would get regular weekday traffic and used to be busy on most weekends of the year. As with Curbar, folk knew that it wasn't the place for soft touches. But most would give it their all, knowing that if they wanted to climb at their regular grade, they were going to have put in more effort at Stoney.

Of course there were particular 'Stoney factors' - the cafe and The Moon.

Mick

P.S. I suspect that there is a cultural shift of values between those who came to climbing via hillwalking and those who come to climbing via walls. The elite are, of course, the elite and will go above and beyond what their predecessors dared. And good on 'em.

TobyA on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to deacondeacon:

Yep, I'm quite a regular visitor to Stanage these days an I'm impressed at how little traffic some routes get even at popular end, in the Vdiff to VS range. I'm more likely to go on an evening, but even when I've been on summers weekends it hasn't been ridiculously busy.

There was no one else climbing at Dovestone Tor on Saturday besides me an my partner.
planetmarshall on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to deacondeacon:

> Stoney is an amazing crag with 3* route after 3* route but we're normally the only people climbing trad routes. Was it ever really the 'Stanage' of the lime?

What Peak Lime does not have, and Stanage does, is a plethora of quality routes below VS. Rumour has it there are some climbers who don't even like Grit. I assume that they all go to Wales or something.
Lemony - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

Perhaps the Lancashire folk need to start a campaign to encourage people.

Can I propose the following slogan:
"Down with Honeypots, Up with Hotpots!"
ChrisBrooke - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to deacondeacon:


> Climbed on PingPong buttress and Central Buttress in Water-cum-jolly and didn't see another sole there.

That sounds a bit fishy to me.

p.s. How was PingPong?
planetmarshall on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to ChrisBrooke:

> That sounds a bit fishy to me.

Oh dear. This is neither the time, nor the plaice.
Chris Craggs - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to JimHolmes69:

> Well said, the climbing in Lancashire is absolutely brilliant as good as anything in the Peak and I like it there. Wilton, Anglezarke, Denham, Stanworth and many more are great venues. Just open your eyes and you too could see the light in Lancashire.

If people roll up to Wilton, Anglezarke or Denham expecting an 'Eastern Grit' type of experience they are likely going to be sorely disappointed,


Chris
ChrisBrooke - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to planetmarshall:

Sorry, I just don't believe it was that quiet. The last time I was at WCJ I saw several climbers huddled on a perch.
NigeR on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to deacondeacon:

> I've been climbing A fair bit of trad limestone this summer and I get the impression that it was much more popular back in the day compared to now.

I think it was, but that was possibly a lot to do with the social scene around Stoney during the 70's and 80's in particular.

> Climbed on PingPong buttress and Central Buttress in Water-cum-jolly and didn't see another sole there. We had a similar experience in Dovedale a while ago.

I remember when you had to queue for routes on Rubicon Wall.

> Stoney is an amazing crag with 3* route after 3* route but we're normally the only people climbing trad routes. Was it ever really the 'Stanage' of the lime?

I've always thought of Stoney as a bit of a marmite crag, and it often depends on what mood you're in. It can certainly be intimidating the first couple of times. Yet even in its heyday when the cafe was bulging with the great and the gods, I can't recall ever having to queue for anything - apart from top roping Wee Doris & Bubble Wall.

> As for people complaining that Stanage was busy. Of course it was busy, it's the greatest single pitch crag in the uk, it dries quickly, and it's within day trip distance from just about every main city in the uk. I'm more amazed that the car parks aren't full to bursting every dry day of the year.

Not been for over 20 years, but it was getting overcrowded and polished to death then.


NigeR on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> If people roll up to Wilton, Anglezarke or Denham expecting an 'Eastern Grit' type of experience they are likely going to be sorely disappointed,

> Chris

You forgot that other classic Lancashire crag, Den Lane.

I spent a bit of time exploring (or playing portable belayer to be more accurate) Lancashires finest with Dave Knighton in the 70's. Dave was (and still is) a good friend, but I could never understand his affection for those places - even from a new routing perspective.
Post edited at 16:31
JimHolmes69 - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to NigeR:

I did forget some of the other great crags including, Deeply Vale, Cow's Mouth Quarry, Summit, Pnfold and Troy. Like I said people need to open their eyes and try something new. Running hill pits isn't bad either either.
deacondeacon - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to ChrisBrooke:

> That sounds a bit fishy to me.

> p.s. How was PingPong?
Tbh I didn't think it was that good. Desmond Douglas the linkup from PingPong into Ping was much better and although it didn't follow a crack was a more direct route with interesting moves.
Tried Mandrake too but it kicked my arse so I've at least got something to go back to.



deacondeacon - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to planetmarshall:

> What Peak Lime does not have, and Stanage does, is a plethora of quality routes below VS.
yep and the routes that are VS and below tend to stick to horrible polished cracklines or traversing polished breaks. I honestly found the routes to be more pleasant once you get stuck into E2 an above.
Rumour has it there are some climbers who don't even like Grit.
Each to their own I guess but they're wrong ;)


NigeR on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to JimHolmes69:

> I did forget some of the other great crags including, Deeply Vale, Cow's Mouth Quarry, Summit, Pnfold and Troy. Like I said people need to open their eyes and try something new. Running hill pits isn't bad either either.

And of course the wonderful bouldering venue of Brownstones.
deacondeacon - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Mick Ward:

> More the Curbar of the lime.

> But yes, it would get regular weekday traffic and used to be busy on most weekends of the year. As with Curbar, folk knew that it wasn't the place for soft touches. But most would give it their all, knowing that if they wanted to climb at their regular grade, they were going to have put in more effort at Stoney.
That's what makes Stoney great. The Rock is solid (for Limestone), the gear is good (for limestone) and the top outs don't tend to be crumbly horrorshows (for limestone).

> Of course there were particular 'Stoney factors' - the cafe and The Moon.

> Mick

> P.S. I suspect that there is a cultural shift of values between those who came to climbing via hillwalking and those who come to climbing via walls. The elite are, of course, the elite and will go above and beyond what their predecessors dared. And good on 'em.
Not a lot for the elite to go at, at Stoney though. They're all at Raven Tor

deacondeacon - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:
Sorry for taking the thread on a tangent you can go back to bein wrong about Stanage now ;)
Post edited at 18:14
Timmd on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to TobyA:
> Yep, I'm quite a regular visitor to Stanage these days an I'm impressed at how little traffic some routes get even at popular end, in the Vdiff to VS range. I'm more likely to go on an evening, but even when I've been on summers weekends it hasn't been ridiculously busy.

> There was no one else climbing at Dovestone Tor on Saturday besides me an my partner.

The best thing with being local is you can get to learn when the crags are at their quietest, and take a chance when it's an ever changing spring day weather wise - and get different 'moods' during the day, there's nothing like having a good time after you've set off when it's been hailing before the sun comes out.
Post edited at 19:52
Mick Ward - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to deacondeacon:

> That's what makes Stoney great.

You've earned your pint.

Mick
pec on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to nniff:

> We had the Grochan to ourselves on Saturday morning. . . . >

Not quite, I was there as well. But probably like you, I was amazed at how quiet it was given the good weather, the mostly dry routes and the Grochan's proximity to the road.
robin mueller - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to NigeR:

> And of course the wonderful bouldering venue of Brownstones.

Which is just one of many wonderful bouldering venues in Lancashire.
Dave 88 - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:

It's interesting that queuing for Christmas Crack in the freezing cold, when you should be shovelling ferrero roche and pt down your grid, is seen as a pleasant and worthwhile tradition; whereas queuing for a route on a sunny autumn weekend is seen as insanity.
Misha - on 20 Sep 2016
In reply to efrance24234:
So the most popular crag in the country was busy on a nice day. Meanwhile lots of great crags are more or less deserted, which means you can pretty much get on any route you like. Terrible.
doris - on 20 Sep 2016
In reply to Chris Craggs:
There have been quite a few Sheffield types in the quarries recently but now all the guide book photos have been taken I guess we won't see them again!
Offwidth - on 11:31 Tue
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Laddow was partly about access and keepering at the time. As soon as Stanage was opened it was being trashed by nailed booted masses (the most serious erosion the crag ever saw due to climbers) . The first honeypot peak crag was Wharncliffe around the early 1900s... ease of access and information available.

In reply to davidbenyon

Depends how you define a problem. Those parking on verges and partly blocking the road and not purchasing the Stand Up for Stanage pass (or paying to park) to ringfence some income for the estate are a major problem. Queues on classic routes are a matter of choice... I've been up there on a busy day and climbed 100 routes solo including everything below Severe from the right of the popular end to the Unconquerables... 3 star classics just need to be done early, late (or nipping in through a rare opportunity or with some kindness from a queue).
Post edited at 11:35
planetmarshall on 11:34 Tue
In reply to Offwidth:

> ...3 star classics just need to be done early, late (or nipping in through a rare opportunity or with some kindness from a queue).

To be honest I have rarely had any problem getting on classics at Stanage, but I rarely climb there at the weekend (unless at the Left hand end), and take advantage of my proximity to go during weekday evenings.

Offwidth - on 11:52 Tue
In reply to Valkyrie1968:
I dont know Lancs so well but The Chew is arguably better than Stanage for the HVS and below leaders to classic tick and its only one section of a guidebook. It's more awkward to get to and requires more of a walk sure but it is more than a little odd that the Chew isn't way more popular: Dovestones is wonderful from the lowest grades (and Rob's not far behind), Wimberry is one of The grit crags, Standing Stones is brilliant from S to HVS, Aldermans is exposed enough to keep midges away on most days, Dovestone Quarries have the longest up bumbly routes on grit (yet get some of the least traffic for their stars); Ravenstones a perfect place to climb classics and escape from summer heat. The other crags all have starred climbs and clear charms under certain conditions.
Post edited at 11:54
Simon Caldwell - on 11:53 Tue
In reply to Offwidth:

> Laddow was partly about access and keepering at the time. As soon as Stanage was opened it was being trashed by nailed booted masses (the most serious erosion the crag ever saw due to climbers) . The first honeypot peak crag was Wharncliffe around the early 1900s... ease of access and information available.

Yes, that was kind of my point. There have always been reasons (mostly good ones) that some crags are more popular than others, it's nothing new. With Stanage now I'd say it's largely easy of access (lots of people are allergic to walking for more than 10 minutes), plus the usual herd instinct - people go where their friends go, their friends go somewhere they've heard of and know has plenty of top quality climbs.

Whereas I choose places that nobody has heard of, and don't have any friends ;-)
Offwidth - on 12:02 Tue
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Plenty of places with shorter walk-ins than Stanage and better conditions are quiet. Summer weekend parking is a serious pain except early or late...and the queues, heat or midges, too often limit enjoyment of those great climbs. Herd instinct is the only explantion. In contrast it can be idyllic even at the weekend at 6am or 8pm in May or June.
NigeR on 12:07 Tue
In reply to Offwidth:

> Plenty of places with shorter walk-ins than Stanage and better conditions are quiet. Summer weekend parking is a serious pain except early or late...and the queues, heat or midges, too often limit enjoyment of those great climbs. Herd instinct is the only explantion. In contrast it can be idyllic even at the weekend at 6am or 8pm in May or June.

A couple of hours late evening soloing at Stanage, is one of the great joys of climbing.
Simon Caldwell - on 12:21 Tue
In reply to Offwidth:

Stanage seems to become quiet after around 5pm on a Saturday in summer, earlier on a Sunday.
Rob Exile Ward on 12:22 Tue
In reply to NigeR:

Den Lane! We drove there one day from Derby, passing God knows how many crags on the way. When we got there we found a supposed 3* VS that my mate - who is quite tall but not exceptionally so - could practically reach the top of without in fact leaving the ground. Then it started raining.

That's a day in my life that I will never get back.
Mick Ward - on 13:03 Tue
In reply to Offwidth:

Indeed The Chew can be glorious. Loved by many... not least the late Brian Cropper.

Mick
Ramblin dave - on 14:07 Tue
In reply to Offwidth:
> Plenty of places with shorter walk-ins than Stanage and better conditions are quiet. Summer weekend parking is a serious pain except early or late...and the queues, heat or midges, too often limit enjoyment of those great climbs. Herd instinct is the only explantion. In contrast it can be idyllic even at the weekend at 6am or 8pm in May or June.

We have a bit of a tendency to end up at Stanage on trips to the Peak. The basic reason is that when we've got a couple of car loads of people in the cafe in the morning deciding which crag to go to, we often have to cross off:
any crag with nothing below VS
any crag with nothing decent below VS
any crag where the sub VS climbers in the group have already done everything decent below VS
any crag that's going to be too cold , damp and /or green in this weather
any crag that's going to be too hot, sweaty and / or midgy in this weather
any crag that isn't huge that someone went to a couple of weeks ago
any crag that someone has an irrational dislike of
any crag that's "too short to be worth tying in for"
any crag that's "a bit of a manky hole in the ground" (these last two are arguably special cases of the previous one...)
any crag that significantly increases the driving time
any crag that we don't have enough copies of the guidebook for between us.

And what's left will often tend to end up being Stanage largely because it's got enough stuff to do at all grades and in most conditions that no-one can think of an objection to it.
Post edited at 14:09
Rob Davies - on 14:17 Tue
In reply to Ramblin dave:

> any crag that's "a bit of a manky hole in the ground"

Well, that would rule out most of Lancashire. But you need to learn to love "manky holes in the ground".
Bulls Crack - on 14:29 Tue
In reply to Ramblin dave:

' a bit of a manky hole in the ground'? We're back to Lancashire again!

The obvious alternative to the Peak is Yorkshire - quality natural edges, the odd good quarry and the best limestone.
NigeR on 14:37 Tue
In reply to Mick Ward:

> Indeed The Chew can be glorious. Loved by many... not least the late Brian Cropper.

> Mick

You always had to check for the tell tale glint of mischief in Brian's eyes sometimes regarding his recommendations. I once spent a whole day scouring the Dobcross, Diggle & Delph triangle in search of some apparantly brilliant bouldering?
NigeR on 14:40 Tue
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> Den Lane! We drove there one day from Derby, passing God knows how many crags on the way. When we got there we found a supposed 3* VS that my mate - who is quite tall but not exceptionally so - could practically reach the top of without in fact leaving the ground. Then it started raining.

> That's a day in my life that I will never get back.

If you think Den Lane's crap, you should pay a visit to Shaw Quarry near Rochdale. It makes Mamtor look like El Cap.
Chris Craggs - on 15:21 Tue
In reply to Offwidth:

> Plenty of places with shorter walk-ins than Stanage and better conditions are quiet. Summer weekend parking is a serious pain except early or late...and the queues, heat or midges, too often limit enjoyment of those great climbs. Herd instinct is the only explantion.

Or maybe the fact that you have 1000+ routes, almost all worth doing, on great rock and in a stunning setting,


Chris
Mick Ward - on 16:15 Tue
In reply to NigeR:

> You always had to check for the tell tale glint of mischief in Brian's eyes...

Yeah well no-one said he couldn't be cheeky!

When I was a nipper, in the Mournes, I invented a fictious crag to explain away disastrous days out. When queried, I'd just say I'd been to Vulture Rocks. There was an Eagle Rocks, Pidgeon Rock etc, so it was vaguely plausible. Folk would nod sagely. Occasionally some-one would say, "What did you do?" "Vulture Crack, Super-Direct," I'd shoot back, smooth as a good tune. Lying little toad that I was, I actually got away with it. Amazingly nobody ever called me on it.

Should have gone into politics and made a career out of telling porkies...

Mick



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andrewmcleod - on 16:51 Tue
In reply to Ramblin dave:

> any crag that's "too short to be worth tying in for"

so you go to Stanage (or indeed any grit crag)? There are taller indoor walls :P

For me it's all super-short single pitch climbing, so it doesn't really matter too much if it's 5m or 20m.
Offwidth - on 17:37 Tue
In reply to Chris Craggs:

Except the people we are complaining about are queuing on 50 or so three star classics often in mediocre conditions or being midged when in the same larea they could have been much better conditions, quieter and midge free. On a good day its hard to beat Stanage but too often on weekend summer early afternoons its not that good at all.

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