/ Belay carabiner scratches and ware after 1 month

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Inhambane - on 09:28 Thu

I bought a petzl william carabiner about 1 month ago and I have notice 2 scratches / nicks in line where the rope runs and also some ware / flattening. The carabiner cross section is not cylindrical its more squarish with a raised lip at the edge which has worn flat compared to the rest. You can definitely feel the scratches with your finger nail.

I only use this for belaying off my harness so where has this ware come from. I climb about 2/3 x week indoors and out.

My old 10 year + carabiner never showed this kind of ware or so i think.

The indoor wall i have recently started going to has some routes with very, very old top ropes, could there be lots of embedded metal in the ropes?

I'd attach a picture if i knew how.


whenry on 09:38 Thu
In reply to Inhambane:

What belay device are you using? Some, such as the Edelrid Megajul, have a tendency to scratch biners quite quickly.
Niall_li on 09:51 Thu
In reply to Inhambane:

i'd guess belaying with dirty ropes is what's causing the increased wear. I've definitely noticed increased wear on my krabs/draws after using dirty ropes for a while
Inhambane - on 10:24 Thu
In reply to whenry:

I have an ATC,

the ware and scratches are only where the rope makes contact with the carabiner.
jamie_bkc - on 10:38 Thu
In reply to Inhambane:
Scratches and nicks are likely to be where the ATC has rattled against the carabiner in use, but keep an eye out for deep ones that may catch a thread on the rope. If it's just the anodise maybe don't worry? Rope wear on the anodise is to be expected, it's simply not tough enough to cope with the rope rubbing over it but isn't cause for concern.

My guess is your old carabiner wasn't anodised on the working surface and had a decade of rubbing to get it to a hard polish so marks aren't likely to show up. If you look at it real closely in the light you might be able to see a change in the cross sectional radius where the rope ran.

Edit for another thought: Might be a softer (lighter) alloy on the newer one, resulting in apparently faster wear.
Post edited at 10:40
whenry on 10:58 Thu
In reply to Inhambane:

ATCs are unlikely to scratch a biner significantly - it sounds like dirty ropes are the most likely cause.
Xharlie on 11:28 Thu
In reply to Inhambane:

As a counter example, I belay with a Petzl William that's easily six years old and has nothing but shiny spots where the rope runs.

I use it with a Petzl Reverso 3 outside and a bog-standard ATC tube inside - both of the same age. It has been carried over all kinds of terrain, used on glaciers and with old Alpine ropes ingrained with glacial grit, and ground into the rock of countless chimneys while hanging off my harness.

The thread of the locking sleeve squeaks a bit.
Inhambane - on 11:53 Thu
In reply to jamie_bkc:

How thick would the anodise be? i can definitely feel and see a flat spot
Inhambane - on 12:01 Thu
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 12:07 Thu
In reply to Inhambane:

I think you'd be better putting a picture of the actual karabiner you're using.
timjones - on 12:14 Thu
In reply to Inhambane:

> lets see if this link works

That is exactly where I'd expect to see wear on a krab that had been used with a belay device. Why is this causing you concern?
EddInaBox on 12:17 Thu
In reply to Inhambane:

Depending on the process the anodised layer would be no more than 0.02mm thick, probably significantly less.
Inhambane - on 14:25 Thu
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

I will post tonight the actual picture
Inhambane - on 14:27 Thu
In reply to timjones:

because of the short time frame involved of 1 month
jkarran - on 14:40 Thu
In reply to Inhambane:

Are you sure the flat spot is new? I'm not familiar with the William but lots of modern HMS krabs have a modified profile forged into the rope contact region to modify the bearing radius, this will stand out with defined visible edges once the dyed surface is worn through.

Dirty ropes do increase wear rates. The abrasive is usually embedded grit/dust rather than metal.

Burnish the scratches by rubbing over them with a smooth hard piece of metal (fork handle etc) if they bother you.

Personally I'd not worry about it.
Inhambane - on 11:51 Fri
In reply to Inhambane:

Woah, are you sure you haven't been taking an angle grinder to it? That's crazy for a months worth of use...
jkarran - on 13:14 Fri
In reply to Inhambane:
You've only ever used that for belaying from the harness with an ATC in normal, not in guide mode, never as a top rope belay krab nor on bolts/wires/fixed belay? It's been used what, 12 times, 50 routes? Where did you buy it?

The wear probably looks worse than it is given you've cut through dark dye into bright metal but something does seem a bit off.

edit: do you do anything odd with it like clipping it through your leg and waist loop rather than the belay loop?
Post edited at 13:29
gethin_allen on 14:35 Fri
In reply to Inhambane:

This certainly seems excessive for such little use, where did you buy this carabiner? there was a case a while back regarding counterfeit petzl gear purchased from E-bay.
jonny taylor on 14:43 Fri
In reply to Inhambane:

Might be helpful if you were also to post a photo of it attached to your harness, with a belay device, in the manner that you normally use it for belaying? I particularly can't see how the groove at the top would be work during normal use.
Inhambane - on 20:29 Fri
In reply to jkarran:

I've only ever used it for belaying off my belay loop on my harness. I like to have a dedicated belay carabineer that's used for nothing else. Never used guide mode.

I got it on the 10th of august (7 weeks) I climb indoors once week and outdoors 1-2 a week , maybe 70ish routes in total.

Bought online from REI
LJC - on 21:16 Fri
In reply to Inhambane:
I bought a pair of william scregates back in June, and one has worn just as badly as yours under what I would consider normal use. None of my ropes are particulartry old or dirty, I have just put it down to 'soft' alloy and some considerable use, interesting to see someone else has the same sort of issue. The other one in the pair has had the same sort of use but isn't showing it as obviously.
Post edited at 21:16
Inhambane - on 07:58 Sat
In reply to LJC:

Do you think it's defective? Should be sent back? Retired?
Stefan Jacobsen - on 09:32 Sat
In reply to LJC:

> I have just put it down to 'soft' alloy

You are onto something! I've got a couple Petzl Attache 3D which were worn faster than usual when used for belaying and abseiling (with a Reverso). No scratches as for the OP, but soft and deep grooves showed in less than a seasons use. The same goes for the Reverso's. The grooves wear out pretty fast.

A couple of years ago I switched to a DMM Rhino for my Reverso and apparently it is made from a more abrasion resistant alloy. Only the anodisation has disappeared and no tangible grooves.

I wonder if Petzl use softer alloys in general?
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 10:12 Sat
In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

DMM make the Petzl Reverso.
Stefan Jacobsen - on 10:25 Sat
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

Maybe using a softer alloy?
wilkie14c - on 10:51 Sat
In reply to Inhambane:

that looks totally unacceptable wear for a belay crab, looks more like a sport climbing crab that's seen heavy bolt use.
I propose the very best thing to do now is get a new belay crab ASAP and either send that back to petzl or take a hacksaw to it to prevent it accidentally being used.
I've a KONG HMS that is 15 years old and has seen everything possible thrown at it and it looks better Nick than yours.
wilkie14c - on 11:04 Sat
In reply to Inhambane:

reading this article, the testers consider the William a master point crab in an anchor rather than a belay crab, I don't know the reliability of the website though

I also found the William is subject to a recall by petzl but that is concerning the ball locking ones and the ball mechanism, not wear.
do you think there is any possibility of it being a fake? have you any other petzl products to compare the markings? I hope you find an answer to this, this is quite worrying.
Inhambane - on 20:06 Sat
In reply to wilkie14c:

I don't have any other carabineers by petzal to compare it with. I bought from REI online so I doubt it could be fake. It's a screw gate so wouldn't be subject to recall. I have emailed petzl so let's see what they say.
wilkie14c - on 20:50 Sat
In reply to Inhambane:

please share whatever comes back from petzl, think we all have something of theirs and failures like yours are very rare.

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