UKC

I haven't been to Troy Quarry for a few years and I don't remember previously seeing the belay bolts in place on the bare rock over the top above the "West Face". I admit I was happy to use them yesterday, though I think it would have been possible, if less convenient, to use the older stakes instead of the bolts in most cases.

I know there has been strong resistance from some quarters to placing bolt anchors at other Lancashire crags. Presumably the need for these bolts at Troy has been accepted by consensus amongst local climbers in the usual way (i.e. long, boring debates at the BMC NW area meeting). Or have these bolts just mysteriously appeared?

In reply to Rob Davies:

Must be 'reasonably' new. I've not been in a few years and they weren't there then.

I bet if they were there by consensus, they'd have been a thread on here.

In reply to Rob Davies:

They were put in as the stakes have corroded over the years. Nobody wants a belay stake to come away from the ground at the wrong time! With nowhere to put in new stakes, bolts seemed the best option.

In reply to JimHolmes69:

Using belay stakes of dubious vintage is quite common in several of the quarries of Lancashire, Chew Valley, etc. I wondered why Troy Quarry had been singled out for this treatment. Could it perhaps be because the place is quite popular with groups under instruction?

The only other example I can recall is the discreet bolted lower-offs at Den Lane - these seemed a good idea to me after I once made the mistake of trying to top out through what seemed like several hundred feet of steep heather!

In reply to Rob Davies:

Give it a rest. It's not like someone bolted Rapunzel. They are very discreet and placed with consideration.

If you're that concerned with the impact of climbers on rock you should stop climbing altogether. Look at the horrendous calcification at Longridge for evidence of this.

In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

If you read my posts you should note that I did not criticise the placing of the bolts at Troy - in fact I said I happily used them. My query was about why Troy is judged a different case from other places in the area.

Longridge is far too hard for me to bother with.

In reply to Rob Davies:

It seemed to me you were questioning their placement completely. If I got that wrong then fair enough.

The thing is though there are bolt anchors at other local crags where belay stakes are impractical eg witches, Egerton, Lester mill and I think anglezarke, so this isn't really special treatment.

If we were talking bolts on the face ala sport style then of course there would be pitchforks coming out but in this case the bolts are much more discreet and less likely to cause an injury to a passing walker. In fact it is probably sensible to start discussing whether bolts are more suitable in some cases.

In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

Did you place them?

In reply to Rob Davies: Belaying on dubious stakes is pretty ridiculous isn't it? I have never understood why some people seem to think that risking your life on pieces of rust=y old shit is the right way to do things. I've used the bolts at Troy and think they're fine.

I'm about to go and replace the bolts at Den Lane which you mentioned. They're been in for about 15 years and I now have bigger and better ones to replace them with. I'll be making sure there are a couple more belay points as it will make the topout situation a little more logical where serveral routes converge. Anyways, slightly off topic really because I have no idea why Troy gets the bolts and other places don't.

In reply to Rob Davies:

Due to a last minute change of climbing venue I once turned up at Troy with a 30m rope. Building a belay was interesting! I learned my lesson.

In reply to Frank the Husky:

It is ridiculous but then climbing is a ridiculous activity.

I'm not a local, but I have this image of Lancashire climbing as sometimes involving a whole bunch or highly ridiculous practices: dodgy belays (you just have to dig your heels firmly...), loose top-outs, heather cornices, grassy cracks, etc. Taking some or all of these features away would sanitise the crags but change the character of the climbing.

In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

I haven't noticed the belay bolts at the other places you mention, hence my query about those at Troy.

There is, of course, already a bolt runner in place at Denham!

(By the way there is at least one bolt belay in place at Helsby. Not many people know that.)

In reply to Rob Davies:


More than one in fact.


There's at least 2, perhaps 3, bolt runners in Wilton 2.

There's probably more bolts in Hoghton Quarry than on the rest of grit put together.

In reply to Rob Davies: Indeed. You've used the "argument" that is most common - that somehow having good belays is a retrograde step. The climbing would be identical in character, you would simply have a reliable belay. I don't understand what a sanitised crag actually is.

In reply to Rob Davies:


Bang on there Rob. I am a local and have vivid memories of taking a 15 foot nose dive off a heather ledge which was being used as a descent path at dusk in Wilton 2. All part of the fun.

In reply to JR:


But with such highly restricted access we unfortunately don't have a chance to find this out.

In reply to Ann S:


All of them are true, somewhat. Topping out over a heather cornice full of bees with a couple of cams below you in a grassy crack is good sport, but accepting dodgy belays as par for the course is daft (with obvious exceptions for certain routes on red wall etc where you make that choice before setting off). I'd rather not do a route than get dragged off the belay in Lancashire by my mate having an off day. The rest of your list are essentially your own risk and not likely to damage both of you.

In reply to JR:

There is enough clean rock in Lancashire for a life time. Climbing here has been brilliant for the last 20 years, and I still haven't run out of stuff to do. Forget the doom mongers about dirty top outs and enjoy. All the crags in Lancashire have good clean lines. Open your eyes.

In reply to BlownAway:

No

In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

Do you know who did?

In reply to JimHolmes69:

Thanks Jim, I've been climbing there for the last 20 years too, and cleaning quite a lot of the lines up! Some of the best routes have filthy top outs.

In reply to BlownAway:

I did

In reply to BlownAway:

I have to plead guilty to this one Mr Kelly. It was a while ago cause I had just retired . It's taken a long time for anyone to comment and most people who actually climb there welcomed the move at the time.
I just can't see the point of dodgy stakes. They just collapsed when we tried to remove them as they were so rotted.

In reply to BlownAway:

I did!

In reply to BlownAway:

I do. Me, I put a couple in and a lower off

In reply to BlownAway:

I'm not sure which bolts that Alan & Roger are referring to but I installed a very useful belay bolt at Troy a good few years ago.

In reply to BlownAway:

It was me

In reply to BlownAway:

Hi Phil long time no see. I have to admit putting them in.

In reply to BlownAway:

I put them in. Great stuff too, would you like me to put some more in anywhere else?

In reply to BlownAway:

No i'm Spartacus!

In reply to MJAngry:

You can't be I'm sparticus and so is my wife. Oh and I put the bolts in.

In reply to seemingly everyone:

At least one of you has to be lying and that's not good for the soul.

In reply to BlownAway:

Think the Trojan horse has already bolted on this one...

In reply to JR:

The bmc should be providing some hefty steel stakes for the tripe quarries oop north.At Pule Hill I did a hvs to arrive at the top.Just grass,meeold! No stake,no trees,no nuttin'! My stake was a 6 inch piton which I use as a nut tool,hammered into turf with a small rock,and abbed off it,backed up by my belayer,sat 30 feet back from the edge.Proper trad.

In reply to paul mitchell:

I prefer to just weave a belay out of the grass myself. Who knew all that stuff about making corn dollies in primary school would turn out to be useful?

In reply to paul mitchell:


They do, indeed I've placed a couple where they been needed or needed replacing while we were checking routes for the new guide. As you say, there's not always a place to put bolts at the top of a crag.