UKC

So when is the world champ due to breeze in and flash the Dawn Wall? Must soon now, no? Have the nessecary bolts that got chopped been re-installed?

In reply to JLS:


Really? Has someone been busy?

In reply to JLS:

Are you sure that you're not thinking of the Troll Wall

In reply to JLS:


His recent interview said he is planning a trip and would like to try some of the big walls including the dawn wall - he's been chatting to Tommy about the logistics etc. He also said he wouldn't be competing next year to focus on outdoors climbing, so maybe next year...

In reply to JLS:

youtube.com/watch?v=xzz7_jUdta0&

In reply to JLS:

Dislikes and accusations of troll, what's all that about.
Surely, everyone knows Ondra has been thinking about the Dawn Wall and Yosemite season is almost upon us?

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Cheers, I hadn't seen that. So, it still appear to be on.

In reply to JLS:

Anything more specific about chopped bolts? There have been occasional mutterings of complaint - some certainly ill-informed - but I hadn't heard of any actual "remedial action".

In reply to Ian Parsons:

I can't remember exactly where I got the chopped bolts info from, probably a link from here to a Supertopo forum post. I think someone from here was arguing that a flash would be impossible as Ondra would have to ab in and (re)place the bolts! I made the point that if Ondra was going for the flash surely "someone" would (re)place the bolts for him.

In reply to JLS:

Ah - thanks. Doesn't ring any bells though, and I suspect that gratuitous chopping would have been sufficiently controversial for news of it to have been widely broadcast. They pre-placed a series of hammered beaks on pitch 10 of Mescalito, which I presume were removed after the ascent so as not to compromise that route; I wonder whether that's what has been mentioned.

In reply to Ian Parsons:

Perhaps just Chinese whispers based on this story...
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/2xdkt0/not_everyone_in_yosemite_...

If that is the case it doesn't sound like the bolts were of any significance to the ascent.

In reply to JLS:

Wow John - good bit of digging! A lot to get through there, and a lot more to actually understand it! And I'm only a couple of paragraphs in. This is the first I've heard of this and, assuming it isn't a hoax, I'm amazed it's stayed under the radar.


I'm guessing you're right on this. It sounds as if the bolts and rope were at the top of a line of fixed ropes down onto the route. The penultimate pitch of Mescalito traverses half a ropelength to the right to the belay below the final pitch. From a point a few meters lower down Free Dawn traverses right for a couple of pitches to gain the finish of Tempest. The top of a line of fixed ropes down the whole route would be located substantially to the left [looking in] of either of these finishes - ie on a fixing route, but not on a climbing route. So, as you say, the interference with a fixing anchor shouldn't affect the route's "climbability".

I'm off to do some more reading.

In reply to Ian Parsons:
Wow... seriously crazy behavior chopping bolts and droping fixed ropes onto dodgy flakes whilst the team were on route.

The links to the old Wings of Steel controversy show how serious ethical arguments on El Cap had got in the past and the R&I article is well wortn reading in its own right.

http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/el-caps-hardest-wings-of-steel

And the film link:

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/assault_on_el_capitan

In reply to Offwidth:

The Wings of Steel saga was horrendous. The inhumanity... It stands as an enduring lesson to all of us not to let criticism get out of hand. That much of the criticism was unjustified (and that so many people didn't even bother to check stuff out for themselves) makes it so much worse. Nobody should get treated the way those poor guys did.

Mick

In reply to JLS:

I'll admit to a tongue in cheek troll reference due to the suggestion that "necessary" bolts had been chopped.

Has anyone found any evidence to support this claim yet?

In reply to Mick Ward:
Just watched that whole film - never knew anything about it. Jeez - Steve Grossman comes across as the self annointed judge of nothing. Knowing what he knows now after Ammon's climb you would have thought his view might have softened a bit but he still seems to hold the grudge despite having been proven wrong.

The other thing is it seems like Ammon found it absolutely desperate - taking on average 6 whippers a day for someone who has over 70 ascents of elcap and climbs at the highest level would suggest to me that this has got to be one of the hardest el cap routes. So how come its "only" graded A4? I guess they're not death falls, but surely the extremely precarious nature would dictate a harder grade?

In reply to beardy mike:

I know. I think he's supposed to be a pretty good guy otherwise. Weird stuff. When you're wrong, you're wrong. And we all get stuff wrong sometimes.

When the FA team got vindicated, it was like the sun coming out from behind the clouds. And yet, for some, it's as though they can never be vindicated.

So sad. Life's just too short...

Mick

In reply to beardy mike:

Re grades, there's a highly interesting account about the Wings of Steel FA team checking out a highly graded Jim Bayer (sp?) route in the desert. Well worth reading.

Mick

In reply to beardy mike:


38:54 - he starts talking about the poop drops, and is smiling his head off. He definitely knows more than he is letting on.

In reply to SenzuBean:

I had that impression too. I wanted to use the word tool in my first post but thought that seems judgemental and lowers the level of argument. Just reading up about Intifada Mick...