UKC

Lawrencefield Dear climbers,

Just to let you know that the University of Leicester Mountaineering Club will be holding their Freshers' Meet on 1th October at Lawrencefield's Roadside Bay Area. We will be climbing between the hours of 10am and 5pm with a group of approximately 50 people. I hope this does not inconvenience any of you or your potential plans for Saturday, we will endeavour to be on our best behaviour! If someone does want to climb there please let us know and we will move a rope for you.

Best wishes,
Remy

In reply to Remyveness:

Another brave soul. 50 is a lot of people! Prepare for a flaming.
Have fun, climb safe, where ever you go.

In reply to Remyveness:

I don't understand why people think it is acceptable to bring a bunch of punters to the crag and set up top ropes for them. If they can't lead, don't bring them. The last thing we all need is more people interested in climbing, think of the polish. What do existing climbers stand to gain from expanding the reach of the sport apart from massaging their own egos as more people understand how hardcore they are for climbing HS?

In reply to tyho:


You've lost me. What do the Poles have to do with Leicester University?

In reply to tyho:

poor 1/10.

In reply to tyho:


One might wonder the same about climbers who think it's acceptable to Work an E2.

In reply to Remyveness:

Please don't rig an abseil down brain cells in collision. It is rapidly wearing out. There are so many other bits that are not as fragile as this route. There are enough outdoor centres wrecking the route, and Notts education outdoor groups. and a well known climbing wall from the Peak area.

In reply to tyho:

I agree with you anyway. I'm doing my bit and not introducing anyone to climbing unless they're a proper keen indoor climber, desperate for someone to take them out. It's obvious that 90% + of these freshers will not come out again because it only happens once a year.
Take them to the wall ffs. If they're good and keen then start taking them cragging.

In reply to tyho:

"The last thing we all need is more people interested in climbing, think of the polish."

Well if you climb you are contributing to it, in fact if you are a regular climber you are contributing more to the polish. Have you considered retiring from your climbing career to save the routes from getting polished?

In reply to zmv:
The vast majority of polish on routes is from dirty footwear and poor technique. Some beginners groups are very guilty. Most Stanage polish (the most popular crag in the UK) dates back to the use of nailed boots. Beginners crags on Rhyolite are much worse than classics. Trad climbers if guilty of anything should think on issues like occasional over zealous removal of crag vegetation and damaged gear placements from dogging (esp cam damage on softer grit ... like Birchen). Boulderers overbrushing and use of damp soft footholds is a bigger issue.. I can see the surface on many more popular grit problems going over the next decade.

In reply to Offwidth:

Hi offwidth,

I completely agree with you and your arguments on grit preservation.

However I completely disagree that the "last thing we need is more people interested in rock climbing."

In reply to zmv:

I don't quite follow.. In my view 'good ninjas' really do little damage to the crags so the number of these is of little issue. The key is to train 'good ninjas' .. outdoor groups too often offer an 'experience' with no real intentions to train good practice (like ensuring clean shoes or routes the beginners are reasonably capable of) so the crag is a disposable asset in such cases, not something being preserved. University groups often do focus on good practice, even when outdoor top-roping (despite the flack they get). Its one reason I preferred a slightly later first big outdoor trip in our club.. people have climbing shoes and a bit of technique from indoors and plenty of time to be indoctrinated in sustainable trad ways, so don't need to top-rope at all ( let alone flail about in dirty traimers). Its also easier to get the ratios of beginners to experienced right (when those who decide after a few goes climbing isn't for them).

In reply to Offwidth:

Exactly. Makes much more sense. No need to flood the crag with 50 + people most of which will never take it up. Better for the local wall to take the money and find the dedicated ones there.

In reply to Offwidth:



I'd like query that and know what others think. But I think in the 1980s Flying Buttress was polished and I was told that this was from nailed boot, I still find that plausible. But i seconded heather Wall this summer and was suprised how polished the first foot holds were. My memory from numerous ascents the late 80s early 90s was that these foot holds weren't polished back then. In general I think Stannage has gained alot of Polish in the last 30 years, so not from nailed boots

In reply to jimjimjim:

I first climbed on a Leicester uni freshers meet at frogatt in 1994. If I had been taken indoors first I probably would not have been interested in climbing. Climbing is actually the best thing I took out of university. I hope the club enjoy the day. If any other keen climber goes to lawrencefield and finds it crammed they can easily relocate to millstone. Personally I think uni climbing clubs should 100% focus on getting people outside. After all that is what it is all about.

In reply to The Grist:
absolutely, though for me it was 10 years earlier. Id been outside at 6th form but it was a year with LUMC that really cemented my climbing. did bog all for my academic record, mind - they kicked me out after a year because I spent my coursework time on meets! Seem to remember freshers was at Froggatt then. A coach load of newbies so it must have been 40 or 50 climbers even then. Nothing new under the sun, eh?

In reply to jimjimjim:

Couldn't resist, apologies in advance.

Jesus, what a sad, soulless response. Climbing inside is great but for my money outside is a totally different and better game. What harm to have a day out in a quiet and frankly not very good area of Lawrencefield where literally no inconvenience is caused to anyone else where people interested in climbing can meet new people, try a bit of climbing and have a few beers afterwards.
It's not the same down the wall; being outside is the best bit!

Also, for what it's worth, in my experience the freshers meets I attended have a very good retention rate, because they're fun days out.

In reply to John Clinch (Ampthill):

I said the vast majority of the polish on Stanage... some VS and harder routes have got a bit worse at harder starts but thats dirty boots and star related encouragement of climbers who should be on easier things. Good ninjas just dont polish grit routes to any significant extent. There are some old black and white films around that show the tactics of the time and the very visible rock damage and the real old timers confirm the polish predates them.

The cam damage from dogging on some Stanage VS classics is starting to show and once the surface has gone it will get worse fast.

In reply to The Grist:
One of my first Uni club trips was to Froggatt. It was a mess with the worst bits being new climbers were dragged up in any old footwear from a top-rope set up on Sunset Slab by someone sitting on the top edge who had tied off on a gear loop. The climbers who knew how to belay properly had buggered off to climb hard things away from the freshers. It was dangerous and selfish and we later discovered knowingly ethically dubious. I and a few friends concentrated on stopping it happening ever again in the club. We didn't make a fuss (just sorted the belay) and most people really enjoyed themselves.

When we changed to something similar to what jimjimjim suggested, with a later first big trip with proper climbing with the keenest alongside more experienced ckub members, people still had a good laugh from the beginning and retention into the spring much to my surprise doubled: keen climbers seem to have something driving them inside but even with early outside trips may give up if they have to wait too long to be accepted as friends in the core group. Irrespective of what you do with freshers trips most people trying it out don't stay.

In reply to Offwidth:

Belaying on a gear loop - I once saw that but when I politely (honest!) pointed this out to the 'instructor' I was told where to go in no uncertain terms. What was I supposed to do then, forcibly intervene? The 'instructor' was considerably younger and bigger than me.

In reply to spidermonkey09:

"Soulless response "
Wow.

In reply to Remyveness:

How to advertise and organise a freshers' meet - see this thread. http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=650395

In reply to Mark Kemball:

Sadly some responders on this site contribute to most clubs being too nervous to advertise here. Its good to have such an example as Manchester but not all clubs can facilitate that type of approach. I've talked about what my old club did and the benefits of staying indoors the first few weeks but an outdoor trip like top roping in the first bay of Lawrencefield isn't a bad compromise. If in doubt look at the BMC advice and avoid at all costs toproping classics that are too hard for the new climbers with dirty footwear.

In reply to jimjimjim:

You have to look at it in the context of folk who haven't seen the alternative work. It does look a bit soulless but in fact in my experience it achieved the exact opposite. As I said retention improved and the club became welcoming rather than an small elite rolling group of the mega keen survivers after milking freshers for their cash. The improved numbers meant several folk were always out somewhere at the weekend so the new established climbers and superkeen were not put off as they could always hop on a bus or train or nab a spot in a car and share petrol. The whittled down trained and keen freshers always had a good time and more experienced climbers to look after them. Not many clubs are like Manchester where they have enough experienced climbers to handle a big initial freshers trip really well at the crag.