UKC

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-autoshow-paris-nissan-britain-idUKKCN11Z1Y...

I hope we won't go for a 'hard Brexit', I can't help thinking that certain aspects of Brexit can seem like pulling a beneficial rug from under the nation's feet.

In reply to Timmd:

You'll get exactly the kind of Brexit that those who own the economy want, not much of a Brexit at all.

D

In reply to Timmd:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1525130/Nissan-warns-UK-ove...

Seems to me they can be ignored, given that they won't follow through on their threats.

In reply to Dauphin:

Given that all the shit stirrers who campaigned for Brexit have gone AWOL now there is reality to deal with, it isn't surprising that its left to pragmatists to try and sort a way through the mess.

In reply to thomasadixon:


Your reassurences will come as a relief to the residents of Sunderland, I'm sure.

In reply to Timmd:

Apparently the population of Sunderland voted 61% in favour of leaving the EU. I wonder how many of the 30,000 ish people working for Nissan voted this way?

In reply to gethin_allen:

Quite a few of them from what I recall. They seemed to have this innocent view that nissans bluff could be called on relocating .idiots

In reply to Timmd:

"If there are tax barriers being established on cars, you have to have a commitment for carmakers who export to Europe that there is some kind of compensation."

It sure does feel good to have control of our country back.

In reply to GrahamD:


Who gives a shit about the people of sunderland after 61% of them voted out. I certainly don't.

Wally

In reply to Bogwalloper:

What not even the 39% that didn't ?

In reply to gethin_allen:

probably the same population that complained about Maggie and backed Scargill, then when the Unions lost their power and Nissan said it would now invest at Sunderland, they all took jobs there. Bunch of hypocrites mostly, used to share a bus with a fair few between Washington and Sunderland when I went to college there in the 80s.

Anyway, Nissan said they would just like some reassurances before investing. There were no threats of leaving the UK if this or that did or didn't happen. They were just airing their opinion when asked at a trade fair.

EDIT; I think Nissan are looking for an excuse to carry out some reforms there. From what I've heard from people who work there, it is not as efficient anymore as it used to be. Too many people been there for 30 years now and it's become a little bit like the public sector, job for life and people sit back & relax. Less motivation, poor internal management etc.. So I would not be surprised if Nissan thins the dead wood out.

In reply to Bogwalloper:

No one gave a shit about them prior to the referendum, hence the result.

D

In reply to GrahamD:


You mean like Boris Johnson, Liam Fox and David Davis? Yeah, not a sign of them anywhere.

In reply to pec:


You mean the pathetic losers marked down as scapegoats to be sacrificed when things go pear-shaped?

In reply to Timmd:
"Nissan's factory in the town of Sunderland makes 500,000 cars a year, nearly a third of the nation's car output, and employs 7000 people. Nissan has invested around £4bn (€4.7bn) in its British manufacturing base."

"Mr Ghosn said Sunderland was a “European plant” but that he was confident British and European politicians would strike an amicable trade deal."

I'm sure those facts will have some consideration when the costs of just dumping UK production in a fit of pique, will play a part in any decisions they make.

In reply to pec:


hiding in senior cabinet posts, probably in the news in some form most days of the week.

The ones hiding are Osbourne and Cameron, as their apocalyptic lies aren't occurring. Economic slump after the vote out, emergency budgets etc.. etc..

In reply to Big Ger:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Nissan (or any other of the car manufacturers) would just close down in the middle of a model's production life, and certainly not in a fit of pique. But model lifecycles are quite short and the question comes when they have to decide where to invest for a new model or engine. Most of the car makers have plants in other European countries and they have internal competition about where to put investment. If there are net disadvantages to choosing the UK or just uncertainties, that investment will go somewhere else.

In reply to Pekkie:

In the face of constant stream of positive economic news since the referendum, like this
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/30/uk-economy-grows-by-07-in-...
and the complete absence of any sign of the much promised deep and immediate recession or emergency budgets promised by the remainers, there's only one side looking like pathetic losers right now and that's the band of whinging militant remainers such as yourself and the OP with your constant grasping at straws to desperately find something bad to prove you were right all along.

The truth is you'd love nothing more than for it all to go pear shaped because being proved right is more important to you than the future prosperity of your country. It seems however that you're part of an increasingly small band of whingers, unable to accept the democratic outcome of a referendum in which you were the real losers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37275152

In reply to summo:
The economy hasnt slumped as much as predicted because the brexit expectations are on pause and the new PM was anti brexit. The pound is much weaker (so UK shares and economic measures quoted in pounds are down compared to international averages in the range predicted) and the ratings are worse as predicted. The mid term effect on the economy depends on the brexit choice. A soft brexit isnt really a brexit at all and will minimise the economic damage. Long term no one knows: catharsis can cause positive change but you could say the opposite... it's no better than mystic meg.

In reply to pec:

Rant away.. but based on what expertise... even the pro brexit economists acknowlege a hard brexit will damage the economy (they just say long term it will be worth it...placing ideology over reality, as no one knows).

I wanted to remain but why would I cut off my nose to spite my face and wish for the worst economic consequences... you are just being childish with such accusations.

In reply to Offwidth:



Well put, sir.

In reply to pec:


Is this Boris Johnson the same guy that popped up in Turkey saying the UK would do all it could to get them into the EU?

Is this Liam Fox that's lecturing exporting companies about needing to work harder to find new markets (because he's about to f*ck up their access to the markets they already worked hard to get) the same guy that thought a trade mission was a taxpayer funded holiday with his boyfriend?

I'm afraid the country is being run by c*nts and morons and the best we can hope for is that the whole pile of sh*t falls apart before we actually leave the EU.

In reply to Offwidth:


I'm not ranting, I'm taking the piss out of a small but highly vocal band of remainers desperate for things to go wrong.
In the long run who knows what will happen? Nobody can say for certain and the remainers may in time be proved right, the thing is we may not know for 10 or 20 years which is why harping on about every tiny piece of negative speculation (which is all this Nissan article amounts to) is pointless whinging.
If and when something concrete actually happens then by all means lets discuss it, but in the context of the bigger picture which inevitably will be mixed.

I don't know whether you do or not but cleaerly there are those who do.

My first post was in response to Pekkie's claim that leading brexiteers have gone AWOL . This is demonstrably not true as three of them are in the forefront of our Brexit proceedings, several others are in other cabinet positions, many are still putting themselves in the media to debate the issue, IDS was on the today programme this morning talking about his discussions with the PM on the issue and as for the others, well they're not in the party in power so they can't have much input anyway.
Is this sort of carping and whining in the absence of real news that shows who's being childish, its the militant remainers spitting their dummies out at the slightest excuse.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:



Now if you want a debate about how well the leading Brexiteers are doing their job then fine, start a new thread. My point (and how many more times do I have to say this?) is that the leading Brexiteers have most definitely NOT gone AWOL and to suggest so amounts to infantile petulance in the absence of anything of actual substance to complain about.

That will be the c*nt = people I don't agree with definition. How's the view from up there?
I hope that cloak of self righteousness keeps you warm on the moral high ground.
But being up there makes it rather difficult to have a rational discussion with you when you but your conceited prejudice at the forefront of your arguments.

But we'll still be leaving the EU by then, thanks for proving me right about the people who'd love it to go pear shaped.
Actuall the best we can hope for is that we become a successful independant trading nation and that's where the majority of clear thinking adults are realising our best prospects lie.

In reply to all:
Jesus Christ guys, look at yourselves. What ever happened to civilised fact based debate.

We've got people stating they don't care about people who voted out for they deserved the consequences. We've got people claiming others want the economy to tank simply to be proven 'right'. It goes on and on.

Can't we all agree almost every economic layperson in the country voted for what they felt was best. They may be been lied to (on both sides) and this may have influenced their decision. They don't deserve to be punished for that, though I admit it's frustrating. No person in their right mind wants to see the economy tank. Those that do are best ignored.

Regarding the OP, it's not like Nissan have stuck to their word this far, so I'd not get too worried just yet.

In reply to pec:





I wasn't saying that the Three Brexiteers had gone AWOL, I was saying that they could have been set up as convenient scapegoats if things go badly. I obviously have no wish to see things go pear-shaped for the country. I have three kids in employment for a start. What I am saying is that I have every right to point out the bad effects of a hard Brexit. I said it before the referendum and I'll say it again. In fact I'll keep saying it so you'd better get used to it. Phew, better go away and calm down for a bit!

In reply to neilh:


Or perhaps they had a genuine view that they were not a part of the UKs growing prosperity?

I went to London a couple of months ago and found the place pretty obscene. The sheer volume of wealth laid out for all to see. The super-cars parked on the roads with a dozen parking ticket. You can't buy anything in Covent garden for less than £50. It is just horrendous and I too don't feel part of it. I voted to remain, but I do empathise with those who voted out as a protest vote against the establishment who clearly favour obscene wealth for the minority.

In reply to ByEek:


Who do you think owns these super-cars?

In reply to Pekkie:

Ok, yes those weren't your words, they were Graham D's, you just responded to my post about them. The remainder of my response to you above remains valid however.

Nevertheless we're leaving the EU so you'll have to get used that.

In reply to pec:


No we aren't, we are going to start negotiating to leave.. The government were advised the public favoured that option. If in the terms of negotiating a hard Brexit they feel the future is too bleak it is very possible to either turn back or ask the public again with a clearer picture of what the future holds. You are totally wrong to state that we are on a hard and definite path to hard brexit.

Next you'll say "well May says we are'... As if suddenly a politician speaks the truth...

In reply to pec:


A clear thinking adult would realise that if you want to be a successful trading nation you don't start out by screwing up the businesses that your existing companies have spent decades building up and you don't throw away preferred access to the EU market so you can go chase Turkey and Bahrain.

In reply to pec:


We haven't even started negotiations! As others on this thread have pointed out, if the terms we negotiate are too onerous, ie they would seriously damage our economy and put us into recession, they obviously can't be accepted. Just over half the voters in the referendum voted out but how many of them knew anything about economics or even cared? There's a long way to go in this race, even when it starts. Don't be so cocky.

In reply to pec:


And another thing, Switzerland voted narrowly in a recent referendum for curbs on immigration - similar to what our Brexiters want - but negotiations are at an impasse with the EU as they are saying that any such curbs would mean the end of all agreements between Switzerland and the EU - with major damage to the Swiss economy. Arrogantly repeating 'Brexit means Brexit' doesn't make it so as if by magic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_immigration_referendum,_February_2014

In reply to Pekkie:

I suspect the Swiss may tell the EU to eff off

In reply to icnoble : you will find the swiss have changed their mind. They are staying in the single market and are pretty well accepting a free labour market

In reply to Pekkie:


Once article 50 is triggered we're pretty much on a one way street to exit. In theory it could be fudged, if there's one thing the EU is good at its fudging things but they're pretty pissed off with us as it is. Can you imagine after 2 years of hard bargaining they'll turn round and say all right chaps you can stay after all? They really would screw us then, join Schengen and the euro and forget about your rebate, it would never be acceptable to the UK public.
Furthermore it would be electoral suicide for the Tories to say sod the referendum result, we're staying, remember that most Tory voters were for leaving.


The worst that can happen is that we revert to WTO rules, there's no reason to suppose that would seriously damage our economy in the long run anyway. For many WTO rules is just fine if its the price we have to pay to make our own laws again


Just over half voted out despite not knowing what Brexit would finally look like, in other words they were prepared to risk the worst possible outcome just to get out, anything better than that is a bonus. Remember, nobody believes the economic "experts" and their predictions anymore, they've got it wrong too many times.




As for the Swiss, they are a small land locked insular nation surrounded by the EU, not the 5th largest economy in the world with a well established global outreach. You really can't draw any conclusions from the Swiss experience.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread now, I'm away for a week tomorrow so you can argue amoungst yourselves whilst I'm gone.

In reply to wbo:

I wasn't aware of that but you are right - the Swiss parliament recently backed down on this issue. It will be interesting to see if this impacts on the UK/EU negotiations.

In reply to pec:


I remember reading many articles in the Economist and the quality press predicting the Greek crisis. Some things are obvious.

In reply to pec:
After article 50 it's not a one way street.

You seem woefully uninformed.. One minute you say how people's predictions are wrong and the next make woefully inaccurate factual statements which are false.

It will be electoral suicide to push through with hard Brexit if they did realize the consequences were awful.

They are lucky in that labour are in a mess, there is talk of an election soon to grow their majority.

But Cameron jumped as he knew the leader is pretty fucked right now, back down and go against the people or go hard Brexit and suffer the consequences..

In reply to icnoble:


Emm try and Google... This has been going on for a while.

In reply to pec:


Between that and Corbyn being "Unelectable" I am trying to work out how the infinate loop will end up. Could be a new way of generating power?

In reply to pec:

Switzerland are 19th GDP in the world and about double our GDP per capita and a very independent minded people and a big banking market... very much a quarter pint Britain in GDP terms given more punch per head.

In reply to Offwidth:

Sorry to nit-pick, but Switzerland's GDP per capita is amost twice the UK's in nominal term's but in terms of PPP (purchasing power parity which is much more realistic as it takes into account the different cost of living in countries) the UK GDP per capita is about two thirds of Switzerland's. Still pretty rich though. Of course, Switzerland's population is much lower so our economic punching power, however you measure it, is greater.

In reply to Pekkie:

You can't fairly compare PPP as thats influenced by democratic choice as the Swiss choose to do things differently. However by any measure they are not small. The landlocked bit is a different influence but the key precedent is that hard economic realities soon bite on the free market when you fight the EU on free movement.

In reply to Postmanpat:



Young Saudi men?

In reply to Removed User:


Yup, so only very tangentially an indicator of "Britain's prosperity" that the poster referred to.

In reply to Postmanpat:


Thats not true though is it..

In reply to Roadrunner5:


Why?