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Hi guys,
I'm doing a research topic at college and I wanted to know if fear when you are climbing is a motivator for you to push yourself and do better?
Or if you find yous don't do as much if you are afraid of falling.
Focusing mainly on lead or trad, but I would love to hear opinions or even stories from anyone in here!
Thanks very much
I'm doing a research topic at college and I wanted to know if fear when you are climbing is a motivator for you to push yourself and do better?
Or if you find yous don't do as much if you are afraid of falling.
Focusing mainly on lead or trad, but I would love to hear opinions or even stories from anyone in here!
Thanks very much
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in reply to getlostoutdoors
fear holds me back sometimes, especially when lead climbing.
what motivates me is the saying "well if they can do it, so can I".
obviously taking skill/experience/physiology in relation to capability in consideration.
fear holds me back sometimes, especially when lead climbing.
what motivates me is the saying "well if they can do it, so can I".
obviously taking skill/experience/physiology in relation to capability in consideration.
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In reply to getlostoutdoors: "Yous" ?? is that yoof speak?
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Generally I find fear totally crippling. When I recognise things are starting to go wrong in a genuinely serious situation it turns my legs to jelly and I freeze like a rabbit in the headlights crippled by doubt. Obviously I do my utmost to avoid those situations, they aren't fun or performance enhancing.
You might need to sort out a clearer question or questionnaire if you want to get anything usable for your project.
jk
Generally I find fear totally crippling. When I recognise things are starting to go wrong in a genuinely serious situation it turns my legs to jelly and I freeze like a rabbit in the headlights crippled by doubt. Obviously I do my utmost to avoid those situations, they aren't fun or performance enhancing.
You might need to sort out a clearer question or questionnaire if you want to get anything usable for your project.
jk
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Fear of failing stops me getting on things - I'll save it for the onsight for when I'm better/stronger/braver etc is the normal excuse.
Once on a route fear of failure to get the onsight (or to a lesser extent, repoint) keeps me going.
These are both fear of failure to meet expectations (generally my own) rather than fear of getting hurt. The more trad I've done recently the less the actual climbing scares me.
The one thing that scares me more than anything it fear of placing trad gear when pumped, its a slow fear that builds as the inevitable is known in my mind but probably isn't going to happen for another 30-40 seconds.
Fear of failing stops me getting on things - I'll save it for the onsight for when I'm better/stronger/braver etc is the normal excuse.
Once on a route fear of failure to get the onsight (or to a lesser extent, repoint) keeps me going.
These are both fear of failure to meet expectations (generally my own) rather than fear of getting hurt. The more trad I've done recently the less the actual climbing scares me.
The one thing that scares me more than anything it fear of placing trad gear when pumped, its a slow fear that builds as the inevitable is known in my mind but probably isn't going to happen for another 30-40 seconds.
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In reply to GravitySucks:
Also prevalent in Glasgow and the Central Belt of Scotland
> "Yous" ?? is that yoof speak?
Also prevalent in Glasgow and the Central Belt of Scotland
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In reply to kathrync:
It's the plural you that is missing in English, except for "yous" and "y'all". A lot of languages have a specific plural you.
> Also prevalent in Glasgow and the Central Belt of Scotland
It's the plural you that is missing in English, except for "yous" and "y'all". A lot of languages have a specific plural you.
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
I find that on trad routes if you put yourself in a situation where a fall would be serious you put the fear to the back of your mind otherwise you would just bottle it , that part of the fun in climbing finding yourself in a potentially dangerous situation and overcoming the fear .The expression < keeping the lid on the pressure cooker > comes to mind if you let fear take over the lot comes out and your off .
I find that on trad routes if you put yourself in a situation where a fall would be serious you put the fear to the back of your mind otherwise you would just bottle it , that part of the fun in climbing finding yourself in a potentially dangerous situation and overcoming the fear .The expression < keeping the lid on the pressure cooker > comes to mind if you let fear take over the lot comes out and your off .
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
I find I do! I can climb about a French grade harder when things are more runout and scary lol
I find I do! I can climb about a French grade harder when things are more runout and scary lol
In reply to getlostoutdoors:
It may not be what you had in mind - but fear certainly powers me to success at times. Its FOMO - the fear of missing out; typically towards the end of a day/trip - daylight, rain or arbitrary departure time. Last chance! Will I take the chance ? By hell yes - its the moment to risk all !
It may not be what you had in mind - but fear certainly powers me to success at times. Its FOMO - the fear of missing out; typically towards the end of a day/trip - daylight, rain or arbitrary departure time. Last chance! Will I take the chance ? By hell yes - its the moment to risk all !
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
A healthy dose of fear focuses the mind better than anything.
The best days involve feeling sick with fear for large periods of time and end with a slow burning euphoria....
A healthy dose of fear focuses the mind better than anything.
The best days involve feeling sick with fear for large periods of time and end with a slow burning euphoria....
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Generally no - fear stops me committing to hard moves above gear. However, once truly committed, it definitely drives me to keep going!
Generally no - fear stops me committing to hard moves above gear. However, once truly committed, it definitely drives me to keep going!
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In reply to Michael Gordon:
Same really, I find that at the start of a climb, fear floods in to stop me from making the move that would make me feel committed and hinders movement. Once past the (perceived) point of no return though, the fear has me scampering for the top, almost chasing me off the route.
Same really, I find that at the start of a climb, fear floods in to stop me from making the move that would make me feel committed and hinders movement. Once past the (perceived) point of no return though, the fear has me scampering for the top, almost chasing me off the route.
In reply to getlostoutdoors:
I seem to, when I get a bit worried I m able to focus more and really concentrate on moving in a controlled way.
I seem to, when I get a bit worried I m able to focus more and really concentrate on moving in a controlled way.
In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Fear helps me train. When I find out where I'm going in a few weekends time, I have a look at the guidebook and pick a few objectives. Sometimes I'll pick something that is fairly scary and definitely not in the bag - something that makes my heart beat just better looking at the photos. For example when I decided to lead Valkyrie at the Roaches, I was terrified for about a month even just thinking of the climb (butterflies in the stomach, etc). Then when I train (and not just at the wall, but walking around, watching what I eat, general exercise) - I'll use the fear of the fear to stay focused, and avoid the fear on the route.
Fear helps me train. When I find out where I'm going in a few weekends time, I have a look at the guidebook and pick a few objectives. Sometimes I'll pick something that is fairly scary and definitely not in the bag - something that makes my heart beat just better looking at the photos. For example when I decided to lead Valkyrie at the Roaches, I was terrified for about a month even just thinking of the climb (butterflies in the stomach, etc). Then when I train (and not just at the wall, but walking around, watching what I eat, general exercise) - I'll use the fear of the fear to stay focused, and avoid the fear on the route.
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Interesting question, but I think you need to frame it more precisely to get meaningful answers.
I perform 'best' when everything is on my side. Indoors, above a big thick crash pad, with all the holds painted bright colours, with someone who's better than me telling me exactly what to do, well fed and rested, spurred on by the glory of doing the problem dead smoothly in front of someone I really fancy, I will climb the hardest move.
If that's the comparison, I climb like shit on trad routes above my gear.
On the other hand, if the comparison is a trad route where I can easily sit on gear or walk away, where nothing is at stake, then I climb better when I'm forced to. I like to have the illusion of total commitment to help dig deep and get through a crux. Usually it is an illusion - if you fall off most routes, you'll probably be fine, even when it feels like if you fall off you're going to die. I hate falling off. If I'm above my gear on a big cliff I will do just about anything to avoid falling, and often this means really trying hard on a move I don't know if I can do (but it won't be confidently slapping for a decent hold, it will be trying over many attempts to get the hold in the most static, reversable, risk-reducing way possible, and only if that is a total dead-end will I, heart-in-mouth, "watch me, I'm coming off" slap for the hold.) In that respect, I perform better when scared, compared to when I've got an easy way out.
But more generally, I climb far better when I'm confident. If the cliff and the route are inspiring, and suit my climbing style (brainless yarding on holds up steepness) and I think, "yeah I can do this, it's not bad" I will climb much better than when I'm totally psyched out. Some cliffs inspire confidence - a nice steep juggy bit of Lewisian gneiss like Sheigra - while others fill me with dread - Pentire completely psyched me out just by the look of the place. A bit of chalk on the holds helps an awful lot too..
Interesting question, but I think you need to frame it more precisely to get meaningful answers.
I perform 'best' when everything is on my side. Indoors, above a big thick crash pad, with all the holds painted bright colours, with someone who's better than me telling me exactly what to do, well fed and rested, spurred on by the glory of doing the problem dead smoothly in front of someone I really fancy, I will climb the hardest move.
If that's the comparison, I climb like shit on trad routes above my gear.
On the other hand, if the comparison is a trad route where I can easily sit on gear or walk away, where nothing is at stake, then I climb better when I'm forced to. I like to have the illusion of total commitment to help dig deep and get through a crux. Usually it is an illusion - if you fall off most routes, you'll probably be fine, even when it feels like if you fall off you're going to die. I hate falling off. If I'm above my gear on a big cliff I will do just about anything to avoid falling, and often this means really trying hard on a move I don't know if I can do (but it won't be confidently slapping for a decent hold, it will be trying over many attempts to get the hold in the most static, reversable, risk-reducing way possible, and only if that is a total dead-end will I, heart-in-mouth, "watch me, I'm coming off" slap for the hold.) In that respect, I perform better when scared, compared to when I've got an easy way out.
But more generally, I climb far better when I'm confident. If the cliff and the route are inspiring, and suit my climbing style (brainless yarding on holds up steepness) and I think, "yeah I can do this, it's not bad" I will climb much better than when I'm totally psyched out. Some cliffs inspire confidence - a nice steep juggy bit of Lewisian gneiss like Sheigra - while others fill me with dread - Pentire completely psyched me out just by the look of the place. A bit of chalk on the holds helps an awful lot too..
Post edited at 00:06
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Abject fear makes me scrabble around and underperform. Enough to keep me on edge makes me fully alert, aware of what I'm doing, and perform very well. The key I've learnt is rationalising situations; a bit of thought can turn abject fear in rationalised focus very easily.
Abject fear makes me scrabble around and underperform. Enough to keep me on edge makes me fully alert, aware of what I'm doing, and perform very well. The key I've learnt is rationalising situations; a bit of thought can turn abject fear in rationalised focus very easily.
In reply to getlostoutdoors:
After the point of no return, fear definitely makes me climb a lot better. The body gets pumped with adrenaline and things are easier. I regularly fall off when seconding due to lack of fear/adrenaline.
After the point of no return, fear definitely makes me climb a lot better. The body gets pumped with adrenaline and things are easier. I regularly fall off when seconding due to lack of fear/adrenaline.
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Absolutely no, never.
> ...I wanted to know if fear when you are climbing is a motivator for you to push yourself and do better?...
Absolutely no, never.
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
If the fear is well-founded e.g. unrehearsed hard moves above poor protection, then if you don't back off, sooner or later you will be sampling hospital food. So no, not "motivational", not for me anyway.
A large dose of adrenalin does make you perform physically better, that's what it's for in evolutionary terms. Run away faster from that predator. I don't think the adrenalin effect is correctly described as a motivator. Motivation is in the head, adrenalin is in the bloodstream.
> I wanted to know if fear when you are climbing is a motivator.....Or if you find yous don't do as much if you are afraid of falling.
If the fear is well-founded e.g. unrehearsed hard moves above poor protection, then if you don't back off, sooner or later you will be sampling hospital food. So no, not "motivational", not for me anyway.
A large dose of adrenalin does make you perform physically better, that's what it's for in evolutionary terms. Run away faster from that predator. I don't think the adrenalin effect is correctly described as a motivator. Motivation is in the head, adrenalin is in the bloodstream.
Post edited at 09:18
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
I would say that more or less the reverse is true of me. I feel more motivated when confident - and fear doesn't make you feel confident.
If I get the fear on a route, whilst that may motivate me to scrabble my way to the top, I am conscious that my climbing becomes less precise and controlled.
My hardest leads have been when confident, albeit sometimes having to control the fear on the route.
I would say that more or less the reverse is true of me. I feel more motivated when confident - and fear doesn't make you feel confident.
If I get the fear on a route, whilst that may motivate me to scrabble my way to the top, I am conscious that my climbing becomes less precise and controlled.
My hardest leads have been when confident, albeit sometimes having to control the fear on the route.
In reply to getlostoutdoors:
or, to quote something deeply profound
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
or, to quote something deeply profound
“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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In reply to Skyfall:
I don't often put myself in situations where real, genuine fear for my health comes into it. Usually just the type of fear that takes a deep breath and a few motivational words to myself under my breath to be abke to push on.
In the short term I find fear stops me dead in my tracks on a route. And I've lowered off before as it makes me unable to commit sometimes.
But in the flip side it motivates me to get better and either work that route and get it eventually, or come back to it and conquer it on another day.
I don't often put myself in situations where real, genuine fear for my health comes into it. Usually just the type of fear that takes a deep breath and a few motivational words to myself under my breath to be abke to push on.
In the short term I find fear stops me dead in my tracks on a route. And I've lowered off before as it makes me unable to commit sometimes.
But in the flip side it motivates me to get better and either work that route and get it eventually, or come back to it and conquer it on another day.
In reply to getlostoutdoors:
I think fear holds me back. If I'm worried about falling off a particular move, the chances are I'm not going to do the move and I will probably back off.
Fear is not a motivating factor for me. The main motivator for me is simply the enjoyment of moving fluidly on the rock (on the rare occassions when I'm on form).
I think fear holds me back. If I'm worried about falling off a particular move, the chances are I'm not going to do the move and I will probably back off.
Fear is not a motivating factor for me. The main motivator for me is simply the enjoyment of moving fluidly on the rock (on the rare occassions when I'm on form).
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
This thread makes me think of an interview with a Great War vet that I watched.
He was talking about life in the trenches, and describing the squalor and camaraderie. The interviewer asked him if he had been frightened? And he replied
"Yes, all the time...but then no. The only time I stopped feeling afraid was when I went over the top...then I became terrified."
This thread makes me think of an interview with a Great War vet that I watched.
He was talking about life in the trenches, and describing the squalor and camaraderie. The interviewer asked him if he had been frightened? And he replied
"Yes, all the time...but then no. The only time I stopped feeling afraid was when I went over the top...then I became terrified."
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
I'd recommend you read The Alchemy of Action by Doug Robinson. very easy reading for such an important topic. It looks in laymans terms at the brain chemistry changes of performance climbers... one key conclusion is they are not adreneline junkies.... the link to fear is much more complex and subtle.
I'd recommend you read The Alchemy of Action by Doug Robinson. very easy reading for such an important topic. It looks in laymans terms at the brain chemistry changes of performance climbers... one key conclusion is they are not adreneline junkies.... the link to fear is much more complex and subtle.
In reply to Offwidth:
It almost feels like the opposite. I find that being able to control or stave off the adrenaline is the thing that gives me the most enjoyment out of climbing.
> ... one key conclusion is they are not adreneline junkies....
It almost feels like the opposite. I find that being able to control or stave off the adrenaline is the thing that gives me the most enjoyment out of climbing.
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Not sure this answers your question, but I've been trying to get into HVS climbing this year and finding that at some point on every climb I was terrified, usually because I thought a move was too hard and above gear, with a resulting fear of falling. It stopped my enjoyment of the climb and made me climb very awkwardly. Eventually I worked out though that the fear was going to arrive at some point and I should just prepare myself for it. Now I still get scared but it doesn't motivate me or hinder me, it's just part of the climbing experience (and kind of fun afterwards to say to my partner "God, that bit was scary"!)
Not sure this answers your question, but I've been trying to get into HVS climbing this year and finding that at some point on every climb I was terrified, usually because I thought a move was too hard and above gear, with a resulting fear of falling. It stopped my enjoyment of the climb and made me climb very awkwardly. Eventually I worked out though that the fear was going to arrive at some point and I should just prepare myself for it. Now I still get scared but it doesn't motivate me or hinder me, it's just part of the climbing experience (and kind of fun afterwards to say to my partner "God, that bit was scary"!)
In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Bit of both. I think part of it is are you scared to take the risk, or are you already in danger?
If youre in a position you can back down from and about to take the move that commits you to danger then fear says back down. Potentially will power and determination make you go for it still
If you're in a bad place and can't back off and up is the safest way out then that fear can certainly make me pull off moves I never thought I could.
I'm odd though. Usually in dangerous situations I go extremely calm and analytical and it's after that I get the adrenaline hit and go hysterically exilerated and shaky.
Bit of both. I think part of it is are you scared to take the risk, or are you already in danger?
If youre in a position you can back down from and about to take the move that commits you to danger then fear says back down. Potentially will power and determination make you go for it still
If you're in a bad place and can't back off and up is the safest way out then that fear can certainly make me pull off moves I never thought I could.
I'm odd though. Usually in dangerous situations I go extremely calm and analytical and it's after that I get the adrenaline hit and go hysterically exilerated and shaky.
In reply to GravitySucks:
not really, common up to at least 40 in Scotland these days
> "Yous" ?? is that yoof speak?
not really, common up to at least 40 in Scotland these days
In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Doesn't Dave M say that fear of falling is the min factor climbers don;t climb as hard as they could do?
Doesn't Dave M say that fear of falling is the min factor climbers don;t climb as hard as they could do?
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In reply to getlostoutdoors:
Depends how scared!
A bit scared focusses the mind and lets me pull harder. Really scared and I pull harder but my techniques awful.
Depends how scared!
A bit scared focusses the mind and lets me pull harder. Really scared and I pull harder but my techniques awful.
In reply to getlostoutdoors:
A mate once told me 'Fear is like fire. It can warm the house up, or it can burn it down' I'm often frightened, but I try to keep it under control
A mate once told me 'Fear is like fire. It can warm the house up, or it can burn it down' I'm often frightened, but I try to keep it under control
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