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Ynws Etws - climber's Club Hut - poor integrity

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luke.collyer 24 Oct 2016
Want to bring to everyone's attention really bad experience held when attempting to stay at this climber's hut in heart of the pass. And still not resolved.

Is this a complaint? Not sure. There seems nowhere to bring this up officially so here is best to highlight the issue and make others aware and to be warned.

Myself and three other paramedics decided to visit North Wales for a couple of days walking. As I had the background in the outdoors I sorted first nights accommodation at Ynws Etws, thinking this would be an ideal location for the other three "beginners". I'd stayed there before many years back so knew it could be great.

Sorted all key fob and payments through the hut link and eventually arrived.

Unfortunately, the whole place was inundated with two teams of reps from South African (equivalent of) BMC and UK's BMC climbers with a huge overflow of the same group camping. Ok. Not too much of a problem as long as we had bunks. However, it transpires that their first introductions to us arriving was that it was somebody' 30th birthday and that, "be warned", it was going to get "raucous" that night. To add weight to their decree, we could see a long line up of alcoholic beverages lined along the wall from the kitchen into the communal area - and it was growing.

The place was heaving. All bunks taken, with only three available (with a mild promise that a fourth would come available). Other people were already making arrangements to sleep wherever they could in the place. We eventually cottoned on that we were not going to get any sleep here tonight.

We then talked with the only club rep there and informed them we were going to try somewhere else but if we couldn't then we would be returning. Upon hearing this, everyone drinking in the kitchen, cheered.

We then went away and paid extra to sleep in Capel Curig - not returning.

This was my friends first ever introduction into the "family" feel of the outdoors. Needless to say, everyone was fuming and I felt embarrassed to say the least. Especially as I had been bigging the outdoor feel up.

What has made this whole fiasco worse is my liaison with the club head honcho (I'll refrain from mentioning his name here). I emailed and attempted to phone with my issues, asking for a refund of our monies. He initially was apologetic, saying he'd look into it - but eventually severed all communications.

Poor, poor show. So, not only were we left insulted and in question of the community spirit but also left out of pocket.

Thank you Climber's Club Huts - Ynws Etws. Your lack of integrity is clearly represented by your lack of resolve.





1
 Max factor 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

It's a bummer when this happens, but that's the lottery of communal, bunkhouse style accommodation. The fact that it happens to be owned by the CC doesn't have anything to do with it surely? The fault seems to be with the behaviour of an outside party of climbers.
18
 marsbar 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Max factor:

I disagree. If you want to have a party in a bunkhouse, you should book and pay for ALL the beds so you have exclusive use.

If you are sharing with other people who have booked and paid for their bunks it is utterly out of order for someone else who hasn't paid to take their bed, and to force them out like that.

 Max factor 24 Oct 2016
In reply to marsbar:

I agree completely that the other party was out of order, and no doubt I would have been similarly upset to arrive at the hut and find it rammed full of pissheads and without a bunk for the night. But is it up to the CC to police other's behaviour?
3
 marsbar 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Max factor:

I think so, as they are the ones renting it out. If they have rented to a group which was more people than actually paid then take it from their security deposit.
2
 galpinos 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Max factor:

It's difficult as the rules seem pretty sensible, members only at weekends, no more people than number of bunks sleeping in the hut, camping is members only so I guess this was a member of the CC or someone who booked a bunk for a few mates then took the piss. How the CC can police it is tricky, they are a voluntary members club after all.
 ianstevens 24 Oct 2016
In reply to marsbar:

> I disagree. If you want to have a party in a bunkhouse, you should book and pay for ALL the beds so you have exclusive use.

Not how the CC huts work I'm afraid. However this more highlights that a CC hut isn't really the loaction for this sort of thing. Eric's Barn on the other hand...

> If you are sharing with other people who have booked and paid for their bunks it is utterly out of order for someone else who hasn't paid to take their bed, and to force them out like that.

2
 Misha 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:
I have flagged this to our hut bookings secretary (presumably you went through him to book it in the first place). It sounds like there was an exclusive booking for the BMC group and no other bookings should have been take. We did have a change of hut bookings secretary earlier this year so it might have slipped through the cracks, e.g. if you had booked first but that got lost in the system. However I do not have the details, so let our hut bookings secretary look into it and if a refund is due we will issue it. I assume that this was a weeekday booking as Ynys is reserved for members and their guests at weekends (presumably your booking was as an 'outside party').

I should say that, outside a few big meets (when outside bookings should not be take), the CC huts aren't raucous at all.

Misha
CC finance secretary
 Mike Highbury 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Misha: Hell is other people.

You meet all sorts at CCTV huts, pissheads, racists, people who nick your bed. Once I spent a night with a bloke masturbating in the bunk beneath me.

2
 Will Hunt 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

Sounds like a shit and humiliating experience, and one that you didn't deserve. The CC may not have been able to do much before the event but they shouldn't let behaviour like that go unchecked. Presumably they could take action against the responsible member by imposing a ban on their hut use for a period.

If you can't book it for sole use then don't use it for a piss up and expect everybody else to have the same plans. I had my stag do at Eric's and we made sure it was booked for sole occupancy. Even in the depths of drunkenness, none of our group would have treated strangers in the way you were treated. The people you came across were wankers.
1
 danm 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Misha:

I had an unfortunate experience earlier this year too. My friend booked 2 spaces at Helyg for himself, a member, and myself as a guest. On arrival, after pizza and a pint at the Gallt y Glyn, we found the hut full and our bunks taken. There was no floor space, so we ended up driving back to Sheffield as we had no camping gear! Allocated numbered bunks might help, as we were left with the situation where we would have had to wake up the whole bunkhouse to find out who had taken our bunks, which we weren't prepared to do.
 Jim 1003 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Mike Highbury:



> Once I spent a night with a bloke masturbating in the bunk beneath me.

^ Each to his own, I would expect nothing else from a regular UKC user....
Clauso 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Mike Highbury:

> Hell is other people.

> ... Once I spent a night with a bloke masturbating in the bunk beneath me.

I'd made some room; I was hoping that you'd join me.
abseil 24 Oct 2016
In reply to marsbar:

> ...and to force them out like that.

But reading Luke's OP again, it looks like they weren't forced out? It looks like they just decided to leave.

Luke, very sorry to read about what happened to you and your party, it is indeed a bummer as someone else said... (communal life shouldn't get like that, but it does when people behave very badly and break the spirit of the place).

Edit, anyway I like Misha's reply to you - very helpful.
Post edited at 12:57
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 marsbar 24 Oct 2016
In reply to abseil:

I also think it's good that there has been a helpful response. Forced is maybe a strong word, but if someone is occupying your (paid for) bed and you've nowhere else to sleep and people cheer when you say you are going to try to find somewhere else, then what else are you going to do?
 Chris Sansum 24 Oct 2016
In reply to abseil:
I have been a member of the CC for a few years now. In my experience the people you tend to meet in the huts are usually sound, friendly and welcoming. It sounds like you were unlucky. A shame when a group of pissheads who don't even belong to the club ruin your experience. Don't let it taint your impression of the CC though - it is a great organisation and the huts are a great place to stay usually.

At least some of the huts have implemented a system where you note your reservation and bed numbers in the sign-in book, so the problem of not enough beds should not occur if you have booked.

Good luck resolving this!

Chris
Post edited at 13:23
abseil 24 Oct 2016
In reply to marsbar:

> ...Forced is maybe a strong word, but if someone is occupying your (paid for) bed and you've nowhere else to sleep....

Yes, I see... and if it'd been me there that night, I probably would've felt that I had to leave.

I've never seen anything like Luke's experiences when I've stayed in huts - quite the reverse.
 Misha 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Mike Highbury:
This has not been my experience and I stay in CC huts quite a lot. Generally they are full of keen climbers and most people are friendly.
 Misha 24 Oct 2016
In reply to danm:
Yes booked beds being taken by others can be an issue on popular weekends and options are being considered for how to deal with this.
 Misha 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

Update - it seems Luke's emails had gone astray so our hut bookings secretary wasn't aware of this but they are now in touch and a refund will be issued. I don't know if there was an issue with bookings clashing.
 marsbar 24 Oct 2016
In reply to abseil:

It does sound like this is getting sorted out now, and it may well have been a one off mistake. I'm also aware we only have one side of the story, if the other group had booked for sole use not knowing there was an earlier booking and then random people turned up you can see how it would look different, and that the beds being taken wasn't malicious if the others weren't expected due to a booking error.
Wiley Coyote2 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

There is no getting away from the fact that booking a place is, sadly, no guarantee that people will give up a bed they should not have occupied, especially as they probably have no idea how many beds are booked when they arrive.Unless you have a numbered bed it's hard to know which is 'your' bed. However, the flip side of that is that if someone turns up unaware of your booking and takes your bed they will probably be unwilling to give it up if later arrivals have, by sheer fluke, thrown their pit on an unbooked bunk. Theoretically you can count back from a from a full hut and the last four people who have signed in without a booking should give up their bunks.......like that's ever going to happen. It gets even more problematic if you turn late at night. But there should be scope for retrospective action against offenders either via a temporary suspension or even a permanent ban for repeat offenders. Otherwise these things will continue to happen.
 nniff 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

I've never had a problem and the current CC rule that you bring your booking form with you should sort out any unbooked additions to the roster.

Only had one slightly odd expereince in a CC hut - in Cwm Glas Mawr - four people in residence - two in each room. My mate gets up in the middle of the night - he's that sort of age - and get's shouted at to turn the ******** light off by some bloke who's sneaked in at the dead of night and is sleeping on the sofa, but who had gone by the time we were up at about 7. A touch surreal.
 3leggeddog 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

This would be better taken up with the cc than on here.

Part of hut life is tolerance of those around you, be that the quiet one who doesn't want to talk to anyone or the jolly party determined to get drunk and all of the spectrum in between.

My dear old granny gave me some sage advice about staying in shared accommodation.

"There is usually one cnut in every hut, if they are not immediately obvious, be careful, it could be you"

A wise lady she was
3
 GrahamD 24 Oct 2016
In reply to nniff:

> I've never had a problem and the current CC rule that you bring your booking form with you should sort out any unbooked additions to the roster.

Unfortunately I find it all too common. Coming from Cambridge its very often the case that by the time I arrive everyone is already in bed and asleep. It really isn't practical to wake everyone up and see their booking form.

Booking actual allocated bunk numbers might help I guess - at least you only have to challenge one person.
luke.collyer 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Misha:

Hiya Misha

The gentleman I was booking with and paying etc admitted in the emails that he knew the group were there and admitted, in hindsight, that he should have warned me. The group knew were coming too, as they'd purposely attempted to keep some beds free. So no slipped cracks there.

However, after emailing the gentleman in question and your organisation (after putting up this post) I have received emails back - one from a committee member whom I have replied in full, and the other from the person who I'd originally emailed with. His response has been that he had lost all record of our conversations and therefore couldn't get back to me. This wouldn't explain the phone call and message I left on his mobile, or the hard copy letter I sent with all my details when I returned the fob!

However, he has asked for my bank details and once the monies are refunded, as far as I am concerned, the matter will be closed.

Thanks

Luke
luke.collyer 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

UPDATE

I have had email correspondence from the gentleman in question and also from a committee member whom I have explained the plight in full. It is in the process that I will be refunded and once this happens the matter, as far as I am concerned, is closed.

Just so folk are aware, there were only two real issues I had with this - they were;-

- the very real feeling of being ousted and ostracised from a climbers hut. Especially as I had absolute beginners with me who had never been exposed to this community before. This was both and embarrassment and disappointment to us all.

- the drop off with comms with the gentleman representing the CC. This only added to the ire of the situation, especially as no refund had been awarded.

The issues with bunks is an ancient old one and certainly one that you take the gamble with. This, however, was (I hope!) a unique experience. One I'm certain won't happen again. However, to my friends who's first experience was as about as bad as it can get, they'll not forget it and their disdain with the outdoors world is certainly cemented.

Cheers for all the comments

NB this happened way back in May by the way
1
 Misha 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

I will process the refund once I get the details.

Just to even this out a bit, I am told by one of the people in the BMC group that there were 22 people in their group, with some camping, and that beds had been kept free for you or would have been made available. (The hut has a capacity of 20. I should say that in summer it is not unusual for it to be full - same as most bunkhouses and hostels I suspect). I am also told that it wasn't particularly 'raucous' in the end, though I suspect different people have different ideas about noise levels etc. Finally, the bottles you could see were from the previous few days (there are no recycling facilities at the hut so they can pile up until the end of a meet). On a personal note, I know some of the UK climbers from the BMC group and they are perfectly nice people.
20
 Puppythedog 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

I am afraid the cc are a club not a business so the drop in comma might be that the person you were communicating with was away climbing.
luke.collyer 24 Oct 2016
In reply to Misha:

Hiya Misha

Yep, when (if) you see all the emails, you'll see the beds weren't the issue - albeit, only three, I recall, were available on arrival. But yes, give them their due, they did say they'd have the required amount ready for us by the time we came back in (after getting food).

That wasn't the running issue - as mentioned before, we were not made to feel welcome and were, in not too choice of words, hoofed out! And the other issue was how it was dealt with thereafter - when I was attempting to get it all resolved by email/phone/letter.

As for raucous, I guess we'll never know. But, it was made very clear to us, by them, that it WAS going to be raucous - that they fully intended to be getting loud. And the cheers of success following our decision to leave only fuelled that Misha. The bottles we saw (and still have photos of) were full. Full slabs of beer. Full bottles of wine, spirits and mixers. And the group kept adding to it whilst we were there.

In response to your personal note - I have absolutely no doubt that this is the case. This was an exchange group of BMC members (and their equivalent from South Africa). I don't rightly recall talking with anyone from UK BMC there, other than the CC representative (and she was very polite and apologetic. The "raucous" boasts and promises, as well as cheer of success - I believe - came from a large South African contingent.

And as I've said, I've used huts for years and recall going to Ynws Etws many years prior. And had a brilliant time. I'm sure this is a one off. My friends don't think so unfortunately. They just think all us outdoor lot are a bunch of f****** ****.

Thanks Misha

If you like we can continue via personal email. Otherwise, once refunded, let's let it lie.

 john yates 24 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

Hi Luke.

I am a former committee member of the Climbers' Club and can only apologise that you and your friends had such a dreadful experience. I also am dismayed that a senior member of the current club committee did not apologise immediately and offer a refund without question. To me the response from Misha makes the club look like it is blaming the customer for a bad experience when it is our inability to run the huts bookings process as smoothly as we have done in the past. If we as a club want to encourage others to make best use of our huts - as we do – senior members in the club need to be much more customer focused when a complaint is received. The CC has not only lost income with this incident, it has seen its reputation as a good place to stay in the hills badly tarnished.
4
In reply to john yates:

Hear hear. That's how it was coming across to me too.
 marsbar 24 Oct 2016
In reply to john yates:

As an outsider it looks to me like Misha is trying to get it sorted out for him, she has admitted there may have been a problem with bookings which she is going to check but obviously she wasn't there and didn't handle the booking so she doesn't know what happened with any certainty initially.

Whilst I can see your concern about tarnished reputation, Misha seems to be trying her best to resolve the situation so I don't think it's helpful to blame her, just because she was the first to respond on here.
5
 gethin_allen 24 Oct 2016
In reply to marsbar:

You probably want to check Misha's profile. But yes, I'd say He was picking a careful line to try and sort things without blaming anyone particular.
 marsbar 24 Oct 2016
In reply to gethin_allen:

Oops. Sorry Misha.
 Misha 25 Oct 2016
In reply to john yates:
I was not blaming the customer, not sure where you got that from. It has been established that there were two non-exclusive bookings, Luke's one and the BMC one (by the way I don't think it was an official BMC meet/booking so let's not drag the BMC into this). It is not unusual for the hut to be busy in the summer months and generally people get on fine. I am sorry if Luke's party felt they weren't made welcome, although I should say that I've had comments from UK climbers on the meet which suggest that it was a misunderstanding and that there wasn't in fact any kind of drunken party into the early hours.

Regarding the subsequent breakdown of communications, I do not have all the details but understand this was bona fide. In any event, Luke has said that the matter will be closed once he is refunded (which I will do as soon as I get the details), so let's leave it at that.
7
luke.collyer 25 Oct 2016
In reply to Misha:

Hiya Misha

I know you're not blaming me. It was good that you came into the forum and made a neutral approach early on. I appreciate that.

However, when you attempt to justify certain aspects of the ordeal with inaccurate retorts then I am forever going to be forced to counter them. So . . . please do not try and justify the actions of the people on the day.

For example - "misunderstanding" and that "there wasn't in fact any kind of drunken party into the early hours" - when the first words mentioned to you and your group as a "welcome" is about how drunk and raucous they fully intend to get due to a friend's 30th, AND that several people are already on the way to being drunk AND there is evidence of a long collection of alcohol steadily growing whilst we are there AND some people are making arrangements to bed down in the communal area AND that there are cheers of success (allegedly at successfully ousting us out of the hut and securing it all for themselves) once we say we'll go somewhere else is NOT suggestive in any way, that the gathering they intend to have that evening is going to be similar to charity bingo at the local YMCA! So please, Misha, don't play this down.

As for the break down in comms being bona-fide - again, this is what you believe. If I thought at any moment that this was the case it would never have been brought up here. But to play this down and make sweeping suggestions (even after I've said there was other comms in the form of hard copy letter and a phone message) slightly insults me.

I believe this is what John Yates is getting at. I don't think you are intentionally antagonising this issue and you are, over all, positively sorting it. But, as I've said earlier, if you continue to raise one sided "play downs" of what I consider are the facts (when after all, I was there), then I will continue to counter them on here.

One last thing Misha - on a slightly separate point - are there any plans to change the draconian process you have in place to sort payments for staying with cc? At present, it involved us sending cheques with stamped addressed envelopes. Yet, the refund I should be getting is being done by BACS.

2
 Andy Hardy 25 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

> Hiya Misha

>[...]

> One last thing Misha - on a slightly separate point - are there any plans to change the draconian process you have in place to sort payments for staying with cc? [...].

What! you're looking to book another weekend???

 Mike Highbury 25 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:
> One last thing Misha - on a slightly separate point - are there any plans to change the draconian process you have in place to sort payments for staying with cc? At present, it involved us sending cheques with stamped addressed envelopes. Yet, the refund I should be getting is being done by BACS.

You could always become a member...
4
 pebbles 25 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

oh for goodness sake. you keep saying as far as youre concerned once you can get a refund youre happy, but every time the thread goes quiet you return to prod it with a stick a little more.
you obviously had an unhappy time, which is a pity, the word 'ordeal' strikes me as a tad over dramatic. If you book into shared accomodation sometimes you get on with the other people, sometimes you rub each other up the wrong way, and to be honest that can occur in commercial bunkhouse accomodation as well as a club hut. It does strike me from your posts that the atmosphere probably wasnt helped if you began striding around the hut taking disapproving photos of beer bottles, a little give and take sometimes goes a long way.
25
 Simon Caldwell 25 Oct 2016
In reply to pebbles:

except in a commercial bunkhouse if you tried to have an all night party you'd probably be asked to leave. They normally have a 'quiet after 10 or 11' policy.
 lithos 25 Oct 2016
In reply to pebbles:
little bit of disclosure here pebbles ?
Post edited at 16:01
luke.collyer 25 Oct 2016
In reply to Mike Highbury:

Ha ha. Well played sir. Think I should have
luke.collyer 25 Oct 2016
In reply to Andy Hardy:

eek no.
luke.collyer 25 Oct 2016
In reply to pebbles:

Ha ha no worries Pebbles. I get that . . . and in fairness my wife keeps rolling her eyes at me whenever I approach the keyboard. But, as I've said, whenever someone representing the cc mentions something that almost contradicts concerns then I feel I have to justify myself. Petty? For sure it is . . . and it's this reason why I want closure asafp and forget about it.

Ho hum
1
 brianjcooper 25 Oct 2016
In reply to Max factor:
If you had booked into, and paid for a room, in an hotel which had rowdy guests the proprietor would be responsible for dealing with it. If this was a BMC internationally organised meet I'm a bit surprised they didn't book the hut exclusively to avoid this sort of situation.

Come on CC show some integrity, especially as you want to encourage new members.
Post edited at 16:33
2
 Misha 25 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

Well I wasn't there so I can only go by what people tell me.

I can assure you that there was no intention not to refund you. I understand the original email correspondence went astray, as emails do sometimes - misfiled, accidentally deleted, that kind of thing. Club officers get hundreds of emails a year and have to deal with many issues (and dozens if not hundreds of hut booking requests and queries in the hut bookings secretary's case). This is all done by volunteers in their spare time. As you can appreciate, sometimes communications go astray and get forgotten about. I don't know about your subsequent letter and phone call. If you let me know which contact details you used for that, I can look into it (email me through UKC). What I do know is that when you emailed again around the time of putting up this post, you did get a prompt response (which was not as a result of this post as far as I know).

An SAE is required to send you the key for the hut. We do ask for a cheque for external hut bookings because it is easier for us to record and administer receipts that way. I can send you a cheque - email me your address. However BACS would be quicker. I will process that later tonight unless I hear otherwise and it will be paid in the next couple of days once authorised.
1
 Misha 25 Oct 2016
In reply to brianjcooper:
It was not officially booked by the BMC as far as I know. Please don't drag the BMC into this.

As with all club huts, we don't have anyone 'on the ground' to police things. We rely on members and guests to use the hut responsibly and get on with other hut occupants. It is very rare for issues like this to come up.
Post edited at 19:13
 Mick Ward 25 Oct 2016
In reply to Andy Hardy:
> What! you're looking to book another weekend???

>

Beautiful!

Is it just me or does this saga not have the makings of a traditional British sitcom? The more poor old Misha does her(!?) best to sort things out, the more tangled things get, courtesy of everyone else, their aunty Ethel, their three legged dog, etc.

Mick
Post edited at 19:37
 Goucho 25 Oct 2016
In reply to Mick Ward:

> Beautiful!

> Is it just me or does this saga not have the makings of a traditional British sitcom? The more poor old Misha does her(!?) best to sort things out, the more tangled things get, courtesy of everyone else, their aunty Ethel, their one legged dog, etc.

> Mick

First world problems eh?

Personally, I've always thoroughly enjoyed my stays there, and the company.
2
 ian caton 25 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

You live and learn eh?

You want professional service, book somewhere commercial.

You booked beds, there were beds, not even members can expect that.

You are not going to embarrass the CC on here, it's a climbing forum.
22
luke.collyer 25 Oct 2016
In reply to ian caton:

Yep. Thanks for that Ian. Think you missed the point somewhat but hey no worries. And as for embarrassment, I'm sure yes, the CC are made of sterner stuff.
3
 gethin_allen 26 Oct 2016
In reply to ian caton:

Ever thought about doing PR for the CC.

2
 ian caton 26 Oct 2016
In reply to gethin_allen:

Lol, no, I think he's right I've missed the point. I put myself in his position and I wouldn't be trying to get a refund.
11
 Max factor 26 Oct 2016
In reply to brianjcooper:
> If you had booked into, and paid for a room, in an hotel which had rowdy guests the proprietor would be responsible for dealing with it. If this was a BMC internationally organised meet I'm a bit surprised they didn't book the hut exclusively to avoid this sort of situation.

Well, yes. But it's not a hotel and there is no on site proprietor. In the circumstances, the CC seem to have done the best they can, besides a bit of a muddle with the bookings and subsequent emails due to the changing of the guard.
1
 Jim Hamilton 26 Oct 2016
In reply to Misha:

> It was not officially booked by the BMC as far as I know. Please don't drag the BMC into this.

not this one by any chance?!

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/south-african-trad-climbing-adventure
 John2 26 Oct 2016
In reply to Jim Hamilton:

Interesting. Due to weather considerations they ended up in Pembroke.
 andrewmc 26 Oct 2016

I don't like the uncertainty of whether or not the other people staying in a hut will be noisy and drinking. I avoid climbing huts in favour of caving huts; that way I _know_ there will be a party going on and avoid the surprise plus they are 5-7 pounds a night, usually have better facilities than climbing huts (in terms of showers and drying rooms) and are much more open to the outside world than climbing huts, many of which won't even let BMC members stay at them without it being a club booking!

Unfortunately there isn't caving as broadly in the UK as climbing (geographically).
Post edited at 11:05
 brianjcooper 26 Oct 2016
In reply to Max factor:
It seems they have, and I do have to say well done CC despite my earlier criticism. In the past I've been at a few huts where there have been similar issues. Sadly some climbers never grow up.
Post edited at 11:38
1
 brianjcooper 26 Oct 2016
In reply to Misha:
It seems you have, and I do have to say well done CC despite my earlier criticism. In the past I've been at a few huts where there have been similar issues. Sadly some climbers never grow up.


https://www.thebmc.co.uk/south-african-trad-climbing-adventure
Post edited at 12:02
 Goucho 26 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

If you think Ynws Etws is bad, it's a good job you never experienced Humphries Barn!
 Lucy Wallace 26 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

Ah the joys!
Many years ago I booked what I thought was sole occupancy of the Whillans Memorial Hut for a birthday gathering. We got there to find uni group arriving at the same time who also thought they had sole occupancy. A quick phone call and it transpired they'd booked the wrong weekend but everyone budged up and made room. I'm not great at sleeping busy shared spaces anyway so ended up bivvying under a cosy boulder outside with a couple of mates. Luckily the weather was good (which was nice for the climbing too).
 Mick Ward 26 Oct 2016
In reply to Goucho:

> If you think Ynws Etws is bad, it's a good job you never experienced Humphries Barn!

Testosterone City. That place was crammed with brash rivals for the throne of British climbing.

Mick
luke.collyer 26 Oct 2016
In reply to Jim Hamilton:

. . . . ! Oh, that is magical.

And yes, I do believe that was it. Almost ironic.
luke.collyer 26 Oct 2016
In reply to Snoweider:

That's pretty cool Snoweider. Like it. Knowing my luck however, if it were me, it would rain. Hard. I'd forget my bivvi bag. Someone would wee on me during the night. And in the morning I'd find I'd have bedded down in a load of cow muck.
luke.collyer 26 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

Misha et al have now refunded. Thanks to Misha for helping getting it sorted. Any further correspondence will probably be private from now on.

This matter is NOW, closed!

It's been emotional
1
 Mick Ward 26 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:
But hey, that's what it's all about...

In the early 70s, I remember going on Harlot Face, thinking if it was the first Extreme in the Lakes, it'd be pretty easy. I was farting around wondering what height to leave the groove when my mate Deak said, "Why not go straight up?" So I did. No longer Harlot Face, now Triemain Eliminate and the Whillans touch. All a bit uphill. A wasp decided to fly down the back of my Tee shirt and sting me repeatedly. I threw in a single runner and went for it, got to the top, ripped my Tee shirt off, got rid of that pesky wasp.

We spent all our money in the pub below, at closing time dossed in the guy's porch. He came out and shooed us off. We wandered across the road into a field. Somewhat the worse for wear, I fell over a wall into a river. Me, sleeping bag, sac, ropes, all soaked. Deak pissed himself laughing. In the morning, with no money, no food, f*ck all, we went back up to the crag and did The Ghost. Bonington might have thought it was impossible but what did he know?

It's stuff like that you remember.

Mick
Post edited at 20:24
 3leggeddog 26 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

Thank f*(k for that.
 Mick Ward 26 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

Woops, our posts have overlapped. I'll leave mine anyway. Glad it's been sorted for you and yes, I can imagine it's been emotional.

All best wishes,

Mick
 Chris_Mellor 26 Oct 2016
In reply to john yates:

> Hi Luke.

> I am a former committee member of the Climbers' Club and can only apologise that you and your friends had such a dreadful experience. I also am dismayed that a senior member of the current club committee did not apologise immediately and offer a refund without question. To me the response from Misha makes the club look like it is blaming the customer for a bad experience when it is our inability to run the huts bookings process as smoothly as we have done in the past. If we as a club want to encourage others to make best use of our huts - as we do – senior members in the club need to be much more customer focused when a complaint is received. The CC has not only lost income with this incident, it has seen its reputation as a good place to stay in the hills badly tarnished.

Agree 100%.
1
 FactorXXX 26 Oct 2016
In reply to andrewmcleod:

I don't like the uncertainty of whether or not the other people staying in a hut will be noisy and drinking. I avoid climbing huts in favour of caving huts; that way I _know_ there will be a party going on and avoid the surprise.

I stayed in the Red Rose Caving Club Hut once and they were complete mentalists!
Absolutely no chance of a quiet night and I think party games involving axes, coconuts and large volumes of alcohol was pretty much compulsory until the early hours of the morning.
That was a while back, but I presume it's pretty much the same now...
luke.collyer 26 Oct 2016
In reply to 3leggeddog:

> Thank f*(k for that.

I say, it did drag on what?
luke.collyer 26 Oct 2016
In reply to Mick Ward:

> Woops, our posts have overlapped. I'll leave mine anyway. Glad it's been sorted for you and yes, I can imagine it's been emotional.

> All best wishes,

> Mick

Ha ha no worries Mick - I know which you was replying to (I think) and yes, it is what it's all about (or was . . . seriously don't think I could manage it now).

I remember tearing my medial miniscus on the fourth pitch of Fools Paradise and locking my knee. Had to continue out and was helped down of the crag on my bum. Friend drove me to find the hospital in Keswick - didn't initially go in as it was shut (I believe), so went back to a pub and had a few beers before going onto Penrith's Hospital.
Another one was when I was so wrecked that I stumbled into my tent in Langdale, ripping the porch. Trouble was, it wasn't mine but belonged to a couple who were having "some fun". Needless to say the gentleman in question became rather irate and "kicked the shit out of me".
 Ian Parsons 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Mick Ward:

> It's stuff like that you remember.

Never mind that, Mick; was the wasp ok?
 Ian Parsons 27 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:


> Another one was when I was so wrecked that I stumbled into my tent in Langdale, ripping the porch. Trouble was, it wasn't mine but belonged to a couple who were having "some fun".

I trust this has nothing to do with a recent enquiry thread about urinary misbehaviour in a tent doorway? The Climbers' Club does have certain standards, you know.
abseil 27 Oct 2016
In reply to luke.collyer:

> I say, it did drag on what?

No Luke, doesn't matter, it's a good and useful thread!
...have just seen this thread and it's the first I've heard about this unfortunate incident. I was there for a couple of days of the South Africa exchange but not for the 30th birthday. There was a great atmosphere on the exchange as a whole and spirits were obviously high on the night. Main lesson I guess is for the BMC to book the entire hut next time, this is what we do on full scale International Meets and it avoids any such problems. With apologies to Luke and team, and the CC of course.


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