UKC

Just reading Jimmy Perry's obituary in the Telegraph along with an article about him. Makes me think how brilliant comedy writers were in the days of Dad's Army, et al.

As the DT columnist states, it was a brand of humour that broadcasters seem ill prepared to countenance nowadays, obsessed as they are with political correctness and, paradoxically, offensive humour - think Jonathan Ross/Russell Brand(Andrew Sachs episode) et al.

There was nothing offensive about the likes of Dad's Army. We didn't laugh AT the characters, we laughed WITH them.

The DT columnist mentions a German pilot sitting in a field in Kent, have just been shot down. He is approached by a farmhand and asks "Are you going to shoot me?" to which the yokel says "No, but you can have a cup of tea if you like!" THAT is English humour as it was - the best in the world.

We are all the poorer for the passing of the likes of Jimmy Perry.

RIP

(Jimmy Perry arrives at the Pearly Gates. St. Peter says "What is your name?" Arthur Lowe, having been there a few years, buts in: "Don't tell him...")

In reply to FesteringSore:

I struggle with Jimmy Perry and the like. I can't fault Dad's Army, probably because it reflected (and mocked) the attitudes of the time, which were seemingly innocent.

However, I found another Perry creation 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum' very offensive, caricaturing racial stereotypes.

I guess 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum' would not get remade today, as Dad's Army was.

In reply to Fredt:




Oh well.

In reply to FesteringSore:

I personally never did find the fuzzy wuzzies not liking it up 'em particularly funny. It was certainly of an era.

In reply to GrahamD:

I cannot believe that is the line that sticks in your mind more than anything else and that you base your opinion of the programme on that.

In reply to FesteringSore:


But that's not actually true, is it? Lots of inoffensive comedy around now too - Miranda Hart, Peter Kaye, Michael Mcintyre etc. Most of it's not to my tastes but it's certainly still made. It's quite right to celebrate Perry's contributions to comedy writing but there's no need to go full Telegraph "Hell in a Handcart".

In reply to Lemony:

Fair comment but I didn't say that there was NO inoffensive humour nowadays. I just don't think that much of it is in the same league.

In reply to FesteringSore:


Stripped of nostalgia and context* I'm not sure much of Perry's stuff would seem "in the same league" if written today.

*which is not to say that that's how their worth should be judged but it should be born in mind if you choose to use it as a stick to beat the comedy of today.

In reply to Fredt:

it is curious because here in Sweden (trying hard to be super equal) there are regular screenings of faulty towers on tv. Manuel and the Spanish in general take a constant verbal kicking, wonder if they would dare make a new version with a Polish waiter/ress. It's seems ok to repeat works of history, as long as you don't condone them by doing a new version.

In reply to Fredt:

How come all the character stereotyping in Dad's Army didn't offend you. Is it only racial stuff that gets you upset.

My uncle served in Burma and was at Doolally camp for a while. He said that whoever wrote the sitcom must have been there too as it was quite accurate.

In reply to Bellie:


There is a difference between character stereotyping and racial stereotyping.


That doesn't make racial stereotyping, (and the homophobia in the programme), acceptable. I do recall noticing a difference between the two programmes, Dad's Army would acknowledge that characters were often offensive, but the laugh was at the character. It Ain't Half Hot Mum sought to get laughs from the offensive statements (Windsor Davies shouting 'bloody poof'), which became catchphrases.

Its like the difference between 'Til Death Us Do Part' and 'Love Thy Neighbour'.

In reply to Bellie:


As an aside, I'd never heard of this camp - presumably this is the origin of 'going a bit doolally' meaning losing it, or being delirious, especially as a result of fever?

In reply to FesteringSore:


I didn't say it was. All I was pointing out was that it wasn't all about gentle innocent humour. There was unpleasent stuff in there as well.

In reply to FesteringSore:


A healthy dollop of nostalgia certainly helps. Generations since can point to any number of great comedies since then (my Mum and Dad both say they hated Dad's Army at the time, as it was mainly aimed at their parents): Monty Python, The Young Ones, Blackadder, The Day Today, Alan Partridge, Father Ted (although Irish rather than British), Phoenix Nights, Coupling, The Office, Teachers, Peep Show, Black Books, Spaced, Fresh Meat, Friday Night Dinner, and many many more, as they say.

Broaden your horizons.

In reply to GrahamD:

Perhaps some of us have broader minds.

In reply to GrahamD:

I'm not sure that "Fuzzy-Wuzzy" is a derogatory term; not if you consider the poem by Rudyard Kipling.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Yes, thats right.

In reply to FesteringSore:


Yeah, those "poor benighted heathens" probably agree that it's in no way derogatory. Doubly so since the context of the poem and the context in Dad's Army were completely different.

In reply to FesteringSore:

Thinking "fuzzy wuzzies don't like it up 'em" (cue canned laughter every episode) is being broadminded is crap. This was pandering to the hardly supressed racism of its time. Right up there with Stan Boardman and Bernard Manning

In reply to FesteringSore:
For me the appeal of Dad's Army was the quality of the cast which transcended what was to me an often fairly mediocre script. For this reason alone it does bear up to repeat viewing, but I always feel the story lines and jokes were contrived and often ludicrous. I found Clement-La Frenais produced much funnier scripts.

As for British comedy, two words, Chris and Morris. 'Nuff said, though I don't think he has done much on grit.

Edit, I remembered listening to Chris Morris' 'obituary' of Jimmy Saville on radio one open mouthed in amazement that he was saying that the patients of Stoke Mandeville were just sorry that he hadn't suffered more. That was in 1994! Tell me the man is not a visionary genius.

In reply to GrahamD:

I think FS was being sarcastic at you finding parts of Dad’s Army offensive.

I took the joke as the elderly Jones thinking he was able to stop the Germans with his bayonet based on his experiences of 19th warfare - based I think on Perry meeting a veteran of the Battle of Omdurman whilst in the Home Guard.

Perry was also full of admiration for the cast members who served in WW1 especially Godfrey (Arnold Ridley) who suffered horrific injuries.

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

At the time I wouldn't have found it offensive (except in so much as I never found the Jones character very funny or likeable). I'm saying it with the benefit of hindsight: some things, like the jam jars, were definately from not such a gentle innocent era as suggested in the OP.

In reply to FesteringSore:

I'm a Dad's Army fan, some of the humour is a bit blunt, but much of it is beautifully done with wonderful writing and performances. Jimmy Perry deserves great credit for that, I'm not so much of a fan of most of the rest of his work.

The Telegraph obituary, just shows how out of touch they, or at least the writer, is with the world.

In reply to FesteringSore:


Now that is funny?

In reply to FesteringSore:

I've got a real soft spot for Dad's Army. It was the first show to reach my consciousness where each character had such well-defined traits or catchphrases. I quickly tired of Clive Dunn's outbursts but Arthur Lowe's Captain Mainwaring defined the template of a certain type of British comedy character/snob that has endured through Basil Fawlty and Hyacinth Bucket. Lovely stuff and always at its best when the men were put under pressure in a tight spot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asleep_in_the_Deep_%28Dad's_Army%29 my favourite episode.

In reply to FesteringSore:

Anyone looking for brilliant gentle contemporary comedy would do well to check out "The Detectorists".

In reply to GrahamD:

For the life if me I do not remember that line being in every episode. "They don't like it up them", referring to any enemy combatant, certainly was, but "fuzzy-wuzzies"?

Ate you sure that in your rush to be offended on behalf of others you aren't over egging the pudding somewhat?

In reply to Big Ger:


Hard to know - its just something I remember from back in the 70s. It seemed to come up pretty frequently (and the ever reliable Wiki agrees)


I'm not offended personally, as I say it was of its time. Mild racism was deemed funny back then.

In reply to Big Ger:


I was thinking much the same.

In reply to FesteringSore:


Expect that the real comic genius behind this line was Spike Milligan writing the Goon show, years earlier.
Still I remember the episode when I was a kid, thought it was great.