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Does anyone think this is right ?

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Jim C 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

Do I think it's right? probably not.

Do I think they need to worry? Not really, our track record of removing even illegals is very poor.
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baron 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

Can you deport children who were born here (Scotland)?
 Dax H 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

Sounds like a sad state of affairs and typical of the faceless civil service following per set one size fits no one rules.
I would not be surprised if Sturgeon jumped on this as a pr exercise to widen the gap between the north and south.
 RomTheBear 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

It's the inevitable consequence of trying to desperately reduce immigration in the tens of thousands, It's by no means an isolated case.
This happens every day.
Post edited at 07:55
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Rigid Raider 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

I guess the Home Office has to demonstrate that it treats everybody equally and doesn't just go after dodgy Nigerians and Chinese restaurant workers.
 MonkeyPuzzle 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

Right in terms of what? Applying the law fairly, or having a fair law to apply? It's certainly horrible for those concerned.

Silly conclusion that this is an example of why the Highlands cannot be ruled from London. England has it's fair share of moribund rural communities; not everyone lives in London or Birmingham.
 Indy 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Jim C:

> Do I think they need to worry? Not really, our track record of removing even illegals is very poor.

Only the un-educated no skilled, living on benefits/crime from the 3rd world sort. The decent people abide by the law.
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 BnB 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

It seems horribly wrong to me on a community level. While Skye gets more overcrowded with residents (and new homes) by the day, remote communities like Laggan struggle in particular for younger, energetic residents and children to fill the schools.

It would be easy to rail at the Border Agency. However, the family was offered an entrepreneur's visa and given every chance to make a go of their dream. It's not as though they were stopped at the border 8 years ago. It appears that, even after a considerable number of years, the key economic test of employment creation has been failed. Nevertheless, if Sturgeon wants to highlight this as a case of Westminster being unfit to govern Scotland, then I'd have to concur.

Do I think they should stay? Without a shadow of a doubt. At least on the basis of this admittedly one-sided report. Hopefully the publicity will help their cause.
 RomTheBear 27 Oct 2016
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> Right in terms of what? Applying the law fairly, or having a fair law to apply? It's certainly horrible for those concerned.

Applying an unfair law equally doesn't make it less unfair.
Unfairness aside, it's just stupid to kick out people who go out of their way to contribute to our economy.
 MonkeyPuzzle 27 Oct 2016
In reply to RomTheBear:

> Applying an unfair law equally doesn't make it less unfair.

Depends whether you're speaking of the people applying the law or those writing it.

> Unfairness aside, it's just stupid to kick out people who go out of their way to contribute to our economy.

Totally.
 RomTheBear 27 Oct 2016
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> Depends whether you're speaking of the people applying the law or those writing it.

The latter, of course. To a large extent people at the home office disagree with the law they have to apply, because they can see on the ground how stupid they are.

 Greasy Prusiks 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

Deporting people who've invested so much time and money in a community is absolutely bonkers.
Jimbocz 27 Oct 2016
In reply to baron:

> Can you deport children who were born here (Scotland)?

I don't know about Scotland , but my kids were born in Kingston to an American parent. They do not get citizenship because of this and still have to prove they have a visa when entering the country. So, most likely the answer is yes.
 wercat 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

This wasn't right either:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13215590.Grandmother_facing_deportation_...

got quite a bit of publicity on our ITV channel last year and she won in the end but not after a lot of trouble and upset.

Those comfortable Brexiters who think no one should worry simply don't understand what it is like if you have a non-British spouse and if things went a certain way things could get quite ugly for a lot of people.
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 Bob Hughes 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

I have a feeling that Brexit will elp this kind of situation. Its been brought about by the immigration hysteria and the imposition by that half-wit Cameron of a completely unrealistic immigration goal which it was mathematically impossible to meet. As has been demonstrated time and again when you impose unrealistic objective on people they will find creative ways to make up the numbers (see Wells Fargo for details).

Exiting the EU - regardless of whether you think its a good thing - will enable the UK to reduce immigration to more acceptable levels and take the heat out of immigration fever. Whatever you feel about immigration, one thing we have learned over the past few years is that there is a political upper limit to the rate of immigration that people will accept. Given that constraint, it is far more fair to impose limits on new people coming in than it is to start finding creative ways to kick people - who have established their lives here - out.

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 Bob Hughes 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Jim C:

> Do I think it's right? probably not.

> Do I think they need to worry? Not really, our track record of removing even illegals is very poor.

well they already have to get by without a driving license which is just absurd.
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 john arran 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Bob Hughes:

> one thing we have learned over the past few years is that there is a political upper limit to the rate of immigration that people will accept.

What we have actually learned is that if a government perpetually scapegoats immigration then the public will eventually resent immigrants. Successive governments have been very reluctant to even try to reduce immigration (despite two-faced promises to do so) as it would hit the economy hard to lose out on the benefits of an immigrant workforce.

The problem isn't immigrant numbers, it's that government policy has been to reap the benefits and blame the immigrants. The place with the greatest number of immigrants (London) voted Remain and many places with relatively few immigrants voted Brexit because the benefits to the UK as a whole from immigration have been enjoyed disproportionately by the SE and not shared equitably around the country. This is a result of government policy and not of immigration, yet we've been repeatedly told it's because there are too many immigrants.

Of course there will be a theoretical limit to the level of supportable immigration but there's little to suggest we're close to it yet.
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 Bob Hughes 27 Oct 2016
In reply to john arran:

i agree with most of that - certainly the government is guilty of scapegoating immigrants and, additionally, failing to make the case for immigration.

Where we differ is that, while overall immigration was a poor predictor of voting preference, the rate of change of immigration was quite a good predictor of voting preference. So not so much that people don't like immigration per se, more that people don't like too much change.
 timjones 27 Oct 2016
In reply to john arran:

> What we have actually learned is that if a government perpetually scapegoats immigration then the public will eventually resent immigrants.

Are you sure that you've got that the right way round?
 john arran 27 Oct 2016
In reply to timjones:

> Are you sure that you've got that the right way round?

Yes.
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Jim C 27 Oct 2016
In reply to wercat:

> Those comfortable Brexiters who think no one should worry simply don't understand what it is like if you have a non-British spouse and if things went a certain way things could get quite ugly for a lot of people.

In what way is this case related to Brexit ?

Jim C 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Bob Hughes:

> i agree with most of that - certainly the government is guilty of scapegoating immigrants and, additionally, failing to make the case for immigration.

I seem to recall that the Labour Party has already apologised for getting their policy on immigration wrong.
So somewhere between what the Labour Party are now (in hidsight ) proposing and what the Tory party is now planning, is probably a fair system.

cap'nChino 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

It does not seem quite right, but they shouldn't worry.

When Scotland gets its independence I am sure the SNP will put things straight and will get their immigration system 100% perfect. The only problem the SNP will have is trying to blame the Tory's for when things are unfair or go wrong.
 wercat 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Jim C:

is immigration in any way linked to the Brexit vote? Deportation proceedings are related to immigration. Short of deportation status as an EU resident is related to Brexit. Can you see that? Can you see why people are worried and uncertain? If not now then you never will
 GrahamD 27 Oct 2016
In reply to john arran:

> What we have actually learned is that if a government perpetually scapegoats immigration then the public will eventually resent immigrants. Successive governments have been very reluctant to even try to reduce immigration (despite two-faced promises to do so) as it would hit the economy hard to lose out on the benefits of an immigrant workforce.

You could argue it that way round, or you could view it as the government appearing to be responding to what their electorate are demanding, egged on in no small part by a certain section of the media. Hard to know which is the chicken and which is the egg.
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 alastairmac 27 Oct 2016
In reply to Nemo9:

Another example of why it's crazy to have an immigration system and rules imposed on Scotland by Westminster. The needs of Scotland demographically and economically ( not to mention culturally ) are vastly different.
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 timjones 27 Oct 2016
In reply to alastairmac:

> Another example of why it's crazy to have an immigration system and rules imposed on Scotland by Westminster. The needs of Scotland demographically and economically ( not to mention culturally ) are vastly different.

It's not a Scotland vs Westminster issue. Isolated rural communities will face the same problems regardless of where they are located.
 timjones 27 Oct 2016
In reply to john arran:

> Yes.

There are 2 ways of looking at it. I wouldn't like to try and pass such a decisive judgment on whether it is government responding to the whims of electorate or vice versa.
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