UKC

Hi,

I thought it might be fun to get the collective wisdom of UKC for down to earth hard leart tips for improving your game.

What I would like to exclude is the typical stuff around "training". No wall sessions, finger boards, campus routines please. Also no super duper piece of gear is going to make me climb better either.

Clearly I don't have many ideas or I wouldn't be posing the question, but a few hard won lesions for me are:

Gravity does not tire, I do. Go on a diet and carry less gear.
Try to breath and not over grip.
Stuff too much training, climb more.
Heels and toes do more than I currently exploit.
Footwork is all important, though I'm still learning.
Yoga works for climbers.
Practice placing trad gear fast, with little faffing.
Try and recognise when its fear stopping me perform, and be honest about it.

I look forward to any and all pearls of wisdom.

Wayne

In reply to Wayne S:

I wonder why have you got a dislike for training?

All of the above are excellent tips but can only get you so far up the grades.

I think one of the best advice I read on getting better at climbing was in Steve Mac's book and was something along the lines of:

Spend about half of your climbing time with routes which are within your comfort zone and can onsight or do quickly. Spend the other half on routes which are totally impossible at first. This is an excellent way of developing strength and expanding your comfort zone.

In reply to Wayne S:

Turn your brain on before you start, visualisation works wonders.
Don't eat a massive lunch.
The right shoes on the right problem/route feel like cheating.

In reply to Wayne S:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=2648

In reply to Wayne S:

All in the finger strength innit.

Tip: wot i did was hammer both hands, break all bonez n den dey grew back stronger. Now i haz super strong fingerz.

In reply to Wayne S:

Try harder

In reply to Wayne S:

- Strength will get you further than technique
- Caffeine, Creatinine, BCAA's and beta-alanines do make a massive difference in your recovery and performance
- Vitamin D and Zinc have more promising evidence that they help you avoid catching colds as well as reducing the period you endure them for than Vitamin C. (Top tip if you have trained 8 months for a trip..)
- Working out and implementing how you can guarantee yourself a decent night sleep will give you a better performance boost for all aspects of your life than any holiday, change of job, different training regimen.
- Buying and knowing how to use a hockey ball, theraband and foam roller will save you expensive physio trips.
- Finger strength is nothing without the supporting shoulder strength to use it.
- Attaching a chalk bag to your waist with a big metal carabiner for bouldering will guarantee you an awkward trip to A&E, snorts of derision from all who see you at the wall or crag.
- Buy your car to the fit the boulder mats not the other way around.

In reply to alx:

Is chalk bag attached via elastic waist loop acceptable?

In reply to sebastian dangerfield:
fashion concerns were not the primary reason for my earlier statement.

In reply to Wayne S:

Thats a pretty good list: just by applying that you should be climbing harder than you are so maybe you are not trying hard enough often enough or climbing with enough better climbing partners.

In reply to alx:

second order concern?

In reply to zmv:

Hi,

I have no dislike or aversion to training, but there is a tonne of material out there. I thought it might be different to hear about the hard won "soft" skill based knowledge. Personally I have ever worsening elbow tendonitis so would want to go carefully with too much training.

So please don't think I am knocking training. But as in the advert, power is nothing without control.

Wayne

In reply to Offwidth:

Hi,

That was a pretty good back handed complement! The advice was good however! Just to knock one back you assumed improve the game as grade. That is perhaps only part of the question. The best climber is the one having the most fun right?

In reply to Wayne S:

Climb more. Indoors will get you stronger, outdoors will improve technique.

Al

In reply to Wayne S:

Different advice works for different people at different stages in their climbing development. Hints which have resonated with me in the last year or so are:
- Aim to adjust your foot position up to three times for every time you move your hands (only really works on real rock)
- A more subtle version of the same thing - if the handholds are bad, use your feet to make them better
- You can climb steep routes with weak arms if you keep them straight most of the time - twisting and facing sideways on steep ground
- Get used to falling off at the wall, and don't say "take" - it stops you learning how far you can push things.

And finally - How do you expect to get better at climbing when you are on the internet on a Sunday morning? And don't take advice from any other saddos who are doing the same instead of getting out there!

In reply to Wayne S:

If that is what you want but your post implied different. I have nothing against working towards climbing in better style, irrespective of grade, or to increase grades alongside this.

I'm a good example of an obsessed 'fun' climber but even I make the effort to improve from time to time, if nothing else to get the best out of climbing holidays. It's worth saying I don't believe in the cuddly view of fun sometimes applied to climbing.. my type of fun is serious fun... climbing is a risky activity... if I mess up friends and relatives will be hurt alongside anything I do to myself, so I do my best to avoid that. Yet I commonly push myself in my main games of onsight leading and bouldering (providing I'm happy with the style) because that to me is a crucial part of what climbing is. Its almost spiritual when things go well climbing when close to ones limits (these are more than just grades) and this both forms a bond with friends who also 'get it' and helps me make a difference between living and existing and further provides a good model to the way to live better (life is serious fun as well).

In reply to GridNorth:


I'd agree, but I think climbing more outdoors helps more. Climbing outdoor sports routes is a great way to push your grade up in safety before returning to harder trad routes.

In reply to Derek Ryden:

Derek,

Excellent response thanks. Stuff most people can recite but perhaps do not actively practice enough. In defence to your last point it's a grey drizzly day in the Peak, was out yesterday, but on broomstick making duties today!

In reply to Wayne S:
Improvement should not just be about harder grades, it should cover all the other skills that are required. Placing gear, belaying, route finding, good technique etc. etc. and I agree that this is best gained outdoors. Indeed I would go a step further and advise anyone who climbs indoors to get outside ASAP before they develop some bad habits that are OK indoors but could be dangerous outside.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:


Perhaps true to a degree but of course it depends on the setting. My local wall, the Climbing Works, tends to set very technical problems that is fantastic for improving one's technique. But I suspect most walls don't set like that.

In reply to stp:

In my experience walls that set routes that help develop technique tend to develop what I would call advanced technique rather than the basics which is where the bad habits can creep in. Egyptians, Dynos, rotating etc. are not really needed on V.Diffs and 5c's.

Al

In reply to Fiend:

Missed this one, thanks for link.

In reply to Wayne S:

I'd support pretty much everything Fiend says in that article. If anything I would emphasise style a little more. Trying hard is only useful within good focussed style... flailing is pointless and teaches nothing and can damage the rock.

In reply to springfall2008:


And what do you know of climbing harder trad routes?

In reply to zimpara:

Does it matter what springfalls knowledge of trad climbing is. Using harder sport climbing for trad training is pretty well known, as is the limitations of a totally trad mindset to improvement. Let's have your wisdom for climbing improvement please!

In reply to Wayne S:

Ah, got ya!

Sorry to hear about your tendonitis. Hope it gets resolved.

In reply to zmv:
It's getting no worse, but if I upped limit bouldering or specific training I would risk time off climbing. Hence the quite specific post, thinking about the climbing smarter aspect, rather than it all being about big guns!

In reply to Wayne S:

I see. However I'd say about a third of my training is strength (big guns orientated) developed. The rest targets other weaknesses.

Just curious, have you tried a dedicated antagonists routine (pushing exercises such as push ups, dips etc) and a change of climbing style? Deep lock offs and moving statically tend do ignite elbows. Also engaging biceps and core with always a slightly bent arm.

I particularly hate the circuit board, climbing down seem to make my elbows not too happy.

If you are suffering from this, you've probably tried this already though, but still might be worth of a shot!

I also recommend Dave Macleod's injuries book, it has an extensive chapter on technique corrections, posture habits etc which can contribute to this.

In reply to zmv:
I did try antagonist training, it eased but never fixed. And no surprise as soon as I stop, it's as bad as ever. Yoga and stretching seems to help.

Though I'm sure there is an element of ignoring and just going climbing.

I probabaly am guilty of static climbing, with deep lock offs. Probably a symptom of short powerful arms! So in the spirit of the post, the improvement needed is better body positioning and a more dynamic style perhaps? Will revisit Dave Macs book!

In reply to Wayne S:

If you can't train more OR climb more. Then you can't get better. It's taking on the marginal gains adage, (which is a total fallacy)

In reply to Wayne S:

Would agree. You definitely need to implement consistent momentum in moves to ease pressure on elbows, also never sag on a fully straight arm but keep a very slight bent which engages the muscle.

In general the use of momentum helps saves a ton of energy. This summer it was crucial to saving every ounce of energy for my redpoint project by moving between the pockets with quite a bit of momentum...

With antagonists, it really takes months of consistent practice to get them to a good level. Twice a week is pretty much the norm. In time they would also translate into strength allowing you to do harder routes. I was lucky I did a lot of gymnastics style exercises on pull up and parallel bar before I got into climbing so came in with antagonists more or less sorted, which I should not let stagnate.

In reply to Wayne S:

Try to climb with positive people who are better than you. Watch them climb your routes.
For sport, fall practice and training.
For trad, read the history, know the routes and why you want to climb them. This will help to make you commit when the time comes...

In reply to faffergotgunz:



Is that why you can't type? Explains a lot.

In reply to Wayne S:

"how to improve at climbing tips"

Go to Stannington Ruffs. Climb tip (literally). repeat.

In reply to zimpara:

You really do have an unusual mindset.

In reply to zimpara:

I would be interested to know what you class as marginal gains and their value

In reply to alx:


I've heard he believes compound interest is a myth.

In reply to Wayne S:


Move to Sheffield

In reply to Wayne S:

Don't drink 10 pints of wife beater the night before....

In reply to ukb shark:


Move nearer Malham and Kilnsey

In reply to Fatboy:

True. 9 pints is the magic dose for improvement.

In reply to Wayne S:
There's already a lot of advice out there, but here's what I believe it all comes down to: if it's that important to you, achieve it. If it isn't, stop kidding yourself and just have fun.

In reply to Wayne S:

Who you climb with is vitally significant. Try to climb with people who climb as hard or harder than you do. This can affect not only which routes you do but even where you go and how hard you push yourself.

In reply to stp:


I think that's definitely true - it also resets your own ideas of what's possible. Previously impossible dreams become achievable goals - the only problem is, everyone wants to climb with someone who climbs harder than they do

In reply to ukb shark:

Ha Ha, just waiting for the same advice in respect to Llanberis etc. For what it's worth I actually work in Sheffield, and would agree it's had a great deal to offer climbers.

In reply to Wayne S:



Note the past tense!

In reply to chrisdevon:
Hi Chris, good advice and I would agree, though I think the point is less clear to apply when you are a good way into a climbing career and the easy gains have been made. This is the point it would be easier to make excuses and rest on laurels. I'm sure this plateau area resonates was a good few old hands. Physically I have limits, that perhaps I didn't have 15+ years ago. So it would seem that gaining better understanding of body positioning and technique, and exploiting tactics to the max would seem sensible. Without doubt I could try harder, train harder, climb with better people. All of which I have done in the past, and could plot a line from my current operating grade to one a few notches up. The same plateau, just a little higher. So In some ways I am trying to deconstruct my game based on knowing just how hard I have tried historically already. I might be missing the point, but it would seem that trying harder and just wanting to achieve will simply have someone operating at the limit of their comfort zone in terms of trad with little head room, so without other changes to the game then you are just being braver and playing with odds? How long would you want to operate in this high stress area before you would question where other improvement may be had?

In reply to Bulls Crack:
Whoops...def meant "has" or is my Froidian slip showing !

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Yes, "try harder" definitely works for me: if someone shouts at me on a crux/desperate move, it really ups my chance of getting it. Only realised this about 3 years back. I thought I was trying hard, but it turns out I wasn't trying 100% like I do if I think I will let someone else down!

This is almost embarrassing, except for the fact it works!

In reply to zimpara:


By the looks of his profile not a lot, however his advise is sound.

I too have found the best way to climb harder on trad is to get soild at climbing x grade on sport. Even relatively easy sport routes are equivalent to low - mid E grade trad routes so if you get used to covering that sort of ground when you do get out on trad you'll find the climbing fairly straight forward. Obviously trad has the extra dimension of danger to it and you should adjust grade accordingly but you'd be amazed how much the fear recedes when you're finding it piss to climb.

I'm a total wimp when it comes to trad but have still managed a few E6's and an E7 in my time because I could climb hard enough to make them feel easy enough to not be scary anymore.

In reply to chrisdevon:


Good advice. If you're not enjoying it and having a blast, what's the point?

You should be inspired by the routes, not the grades. Chasing grades for the sake of chasing grades, is often counter productive and leads to frustration and disappointment.

Challenging yourself is all part the game, but don't let the pursuit of ever bigger numbers be the dominant factor.

A the the end of the day, it's about getting as much joy and happiness from your climbing as you can, because there's always going to be lots of folk better and climbing harder.

In reply to Goucho:


For me I would agree, grades aren't particularly important to me other than as a progression guide. However, I'm not going to tell another climber what they should or shouldn't be inspired by. To each their own.

In reply to zimpara:


Harder means just that - so if you climbed VD then an S would be harder, it's a relative term. Is English maybe not your native language?

In reply to alx:


Not sure about this one...?

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

>> - Strength will get you further than technique

>Not sure about this one...?

Yeh, that does sound odd. I think that technique means you need less strength, although each route has it's minimum (I'd imagine a 9a climber on a 6c wouldn't even break a sweat as their technique is so good)....

In reply to Wayne S:

You've not mentioned partners. I think good belayers are a source of inspiration and knowledge. They can critique you, enthuse you, push you and give you a good talking to. I've been goaded into trying routes my partner knows I can do, it was me that thought otherwise. Guess what, it's often worked.
Chris
Acknowledgements to Eric, Neil, John, Rob, Steve et al

In reply to Wayne S:

1) - When going for runout trad climbs have a list of escape options in your mind. It really helps!
2) - Go winter climbing, it makes rock seem so safe and straightforward.
3) - Try and climb routes of a wide variety of styles (cracks, corners, slabs, walls etc)

And try not to get too sucked into one particular rocktype, even if you're better on it than on the others!

In reply to zimpara:


This year I haven't trained more and I haven't climbed more, and I have improved my flash grade by 3 grades and my redpoint grade by 2 grades after a four year plateau.

Climbing tips from me:
(1) If you think you have good technique, film yourself climbing on a flash or onsight attempt. Still think you have good technique? Watch for foot bounces, unnecessary foot swaps, getting too stretched out, climbing too front on up steep terrain
(2) Finding and using rest positions repays massively
(3) Before you set off, make a note of 'waypoints' on the route that you'll reset at and rest/shake out. In between the waypoints, just focus on doing the moves.
(4) Attitude and commitment to doing the climb make a huge difference. Don't put too much pressure on yourself to succeed, just focus on doing the moves and keeping going.

In reply to RockSteady:

Thanks for the post, this is great stuff. I had already reached a similar conclusion in terms of some video of myself and partner. Good tactical advice, I find the waypoint idea good for both rests/gear but to also signal the switch between risk assessment and committed movement.

In reply to Wayne S:



Wayne: if you don't let go, you won't fall off.

In reply to JackM92:

Pretty much spent the last year doing styles/routes that do not stroke the ego!
Grades not increasing but lots of character building!

In reply to petellis:

Or if you can't reach the holds, climb up to them!