UKC

We all know how difficult, confusing, pointless, or annoying it can be to translate climbing grades from one system to another, from English adjectives to French or Font or unnecessarily long-winded American decimalisation (the only place where 5.12 is higher than 5.2), but in general, we can always reach some kind of consensus as to what a route would be graded if it were to appear in a different country's guidebook.

But sometimes I find myself wondering about what grades could be given to any of the other sports I like to waste my time on. What would this unpleasantly-long jog be if it were given a French sport grade instead of the vague and little-known label of Red 8b? This slow-moving and relatively calm river that I'm finding it so terrifying to paddle down, would I call these Class II rapids something like a French 3c? 4a, maybe? How about this rather steep-and-narrow chute of bulletproof snow cut through this imposing cliff that I'm about to ski, if I were to transcribe the Toponeige grade, what rock grade would accurately convey a sufficient sense of sphincter-fluttering fear?

Does anyone have any suggested translations for grades from one sport into another? I would tentatively put forward the idea that, for skiing (honestly, the only sport in the world that I'd feel comfortable talking about with anything approaching an "expert" label...), your common-or-garden black piste would be given a grade of French 6a. I think that for both sports your average human being, once given a thorough initiation, could quite quickly get to this level as long as they are relatively fit and have all four limbs intact.

I also find myself wondering what sports cut from roughly the same cloth as rock climbing would get if you tried to translate grades. Does WI4 roughly translate to 6a rock, or do I only think that because I'm a big girl's blouse? How about M4?

What inter-disciplinary grade translations would you like to suggest?

In reply to Pete Houghton:

A 3-hour marathon is E4, or F7a.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

A sub 6 hour 100 mile sportive on a flat course is E2 / 6a+

In reply to GrahamD:

Are you suggesting that my average human being could, with just a little bit more in the way of effort, training, and experience, achieve a 6 hour 100 miler on a road bike?

I'd call myself a solid 6b climber, but what you're suggesting sounds absolutely impossible to me! I have spent about six hours total on a bike in the last five years, however...

In reply to Pete Houghton:

A yard of ale under 10s: XS 6a

In reply to Pete Houghton:
I'd say being able to snort a 6inch line of Ket is at least E5. Doing it where you're likely to encounter normal people in the wider world would be a very lonely e6 lead.

In reply to snoop6060:


Dang, I've never made it much past HVS...

In reply to Pete Houghton:

<awaits Num Num's comparative list of shoplifting grades with keen interest>

In reply to Pete Houghton:

Id say VS/HVS is about average when it comes to sniffing ket, it's heavy duty stuff

In reply to Pete Houghton:


isnt this how triathlons got started?

In reply to KevinD:

Quite possibly, and if more triathlons offered a more exciting mix of sports, then I'd be more tempted to give them a go.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

Of Grammatology is either an ED3 or.

In reply to Pete Houghton:


On a flat course ? definitely.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

Playing guitar. Different genres compare to different types of climb: metal - endurance sport climb, shred - crimpy overhang, jazz - technical wall, classical - controlled, delicate but precise slab, percussive acoustic - some ridiculous weird route put up by Johnny Dawes!

In the latter for example maybe drifting, art of motion, hunter's moon, rylinn by Andy Mckee would be 6a, 6c, 7a, 7b respectively? Anything by Jon Gomm is 8b and upwards and gets lots of *'s in the guide!

On a serious note grades for backcountry skiing would be cool, as using winter gulley grades doesn't really translate. Something similar to trad grades taking in both technicality and exposure would work. Have a big wide black run as a start grade (Vdiff) and go up from there. Alladin's Gulley would be a good HVS 4c equivilent - the "now your getting serious but not too technical" grade, and something like Tom Burt's classic line on Cordova Peak or some of Andreas Franson's lines in the alps probably sets the high end of the Extremes!

In reply to felt:


... or?
Does that make War and Peace a TD+?


In reply to Kahti:


I hate to break it to you, but we've already got one of those... the Toponeige scale is a pretty accurate way of judging a descent, in my opinion.

However, not being a very good climber, I can't translate the numbers that I do have experience with (towards the upper end, but nowhere near the end of, the Toponeige scale) into the ones that I don't, so I wouldn't be able to suggest that 4.3 E2 as being like a F7a, or that rather spicy 5.3 E3 as pushing the same buttons as an E6 6b... especially seeing as I have even less knowledge of British grades, having not climbed outdoors in the UK since I was about twelve.

In reply to Pete Houghton:



Depends if you read it in Russian or not...

In reply to Pete Houghton:


If they replace the bloody swimming with something else, I would be to.

In reply to Pete Houghton:
Don't the 3 fun type definitions already cater for this?

In reply to Pete Houghton:

Ha cool! I had never heard of that before. Seems like a nice system.

I think you can only match up the grades with climbing according to your own abilities. For example I only lead VS/HVS right now, which for a more experienced climber would be a piece of cake, however if that same climber had as little experience skiing as I do climbing, then a "2.3 D2" would probably be at their limit, but wouldn't seem such a big thing to me.

I would hazard a guess at HVS = 3.1 D2 if someone had the same experience in each sport?

In reply to Removed User:

I've found I get a lot more value from my days out since removing Type 2 from my grading system.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

So it's all or nothing? Countryside bimble or going hogwild and soloing beyond your onsight limit - nothing in between?

In reply to Removed User:

You misunderstand... the activity itself remains unchanged, whatever it may be - an endless slog up some snowy ramp in exchange for a few minutes of skiing, or a evening caught out in the fog, then the rain, then the rain by headtorch on the way down from a multipitch that took too long - but my perception of it has shifted. If the experience is going to be enjoyable later, when looking back at it, then why don't you just start enjoying it now, instead?

Several of my friends have asked me, in no uncertain terms, to stop being quite so cheerful at what they might describe as "inappropriate moments".

In reply to Pete Houghton:



War and Peace is in principle quite comprehensible so, while not exactly an easy day for a lady, would go at a reasonable D/D+, depending on conditions. Use of the list of characters in the prelims must almost certainly count as a guided ascent and detract from the achievement, which would nonetheless be considerable for a novice.

The Derrida text receives such a stiff grade not only because it eludes straightforward understanding and demands an easy familiarity with several branches of linguistics and philosophy that are difficult in themselves, but because it quite literally presents unavoidable objective risk. I've known people, some of whom I'd number among my closest friends, who have never returned from the plunge into its limitless theoretical void. And what of the small number that have made it back? They have most resembled Buhl following his ascent of Nanga Parbat—blinded, shell-shocked, spouting gibberish.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

Using a computer you bought is indoor toproping.

Using a computer you soldered yourself from a kit is leading, perhaps up to V Diff/Severe

Building a computer on veroboard, say HS or winter IV

Building a computer+ firmware you designed yourself, HVS upwards? (not something I've done)

In reply to Pete Houghton:


If you can enjoy it at the time, it's still type 1.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

I've never quite "got" the toponeige system as I've not used it enough and they didn't adopt it for the Scottish off-piste guides.

Have you skied/climbed in Scotland at all. Could you give toponeige grades to, Aladdin's Couloir and Jacob's Ladder for example?

In reply to galpinos:


I agree, 100%. The trick is to accept how to enjoy a wider range of potentially unpleasant things. No matter how ghastly your excursion may be, unless you have genuinely strayed into Type 3 territory (a mercifully rare occurence) you are still having a better day than literally millions of people, and it was your uncoerced decision to be up this rock in the drizzle, freezing your fingers off while your partner tries unsuccessfully to free a stuck nut. What's more, there will inevitably come a day when you'll have done whatever miserable activity you're bitching about - skinning, a long walk-in, packing up a bivvy site in the freezing pre-dawn, whatever... - for the last time, and for some of us, that day may arrive a little sooner than we'd hope.


So it's best to enjoy these things whilst we are still able.

In reply to Pete Houghton:
80 minutes of rugby. HVS 5b.

In reply to Max factor:


Is that playing or watching?

In reply to john arran:


What? Sub 3hr marathon is definitive f8a (route), surely!

In reply to Pete Houghton:

What about music grades? Grade 5 piano in my mind is about VDiff, Grade 8 is about VS, anything in the diploma range = climbing E grades.

In reply to Pete Houghton:

Piste Skiing

Blue Diff
Red V Diff
Black Severe
Black Diamond VS
Double Black Diamond HVS

In reply to BusyLizzie:


I'd put the grades much higher than that - but then I'm not very good at playing the piano. Grade 1-2 up to Severe. Grade 3: VS; Grade 4: HVS; Grade 5: E1; Grade 6: E2; Grade 7: E3; Grade 8: E4; Concert standard: E5 upwards. Best performers in the world = highest rock grades.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

A good way to compare may be to assume a complete novice with reasonable natural aptitude, what level would they expect to have reached after 1 day / 1 week / 1 month / 1 year of reasonably dedicated, tutored effort.

In reply to galpinos:


Ok, final offer, f7b. I'm losing money on that though - it's only because you seem like a nice guy and I want to do you a favour. Cash only at this price.

In reply to galpinos:

Further to this, here is a short video of some Type One Fun my dog and I found yesterday.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMcYHG_DDs_/

In reply to Pete Houghton:

As a hobbiest serial killer, I aspire for my 10th murder. Only 4 away from that goal, I feel I may have reached HVS 4c.

In reply to john arran: crumbs Id have said sub 3 is solid 6's, no more. Otherwise you run out of grades 2.40, 2.30 or fast

In reply to wbo:

You must be a good runner then

Actually I think 7a may be about right.
3,00 = 7a
2,50 = 7b
2,40 = 7c
2,30 = 8a
Fast = Hard
The progression won't work much further since climbing grades are linear increments whereas running performances are more like logarithmic, but for a few grades it seems ok.