UKC

Hello Forum,

Where I live an indoor skiing gym was recently opened up - not really my cuppa since it's cross country but I aim to give it a go at some stage to fit in. I digress however - my thought was that they could cross-pollinate sporting interests by taking advantage of the cold temperatures and set aside a wall or two for an indoor ice climbing wall, a la the Ice Factor. However, I have never visited the Ice Factor and do not know much about their set up except that the ice seems to be more rime than water ice, and all top roping. The ambient temperature in this ski gym is -4C - I wonder would that be cold enough to achieve the same as the Ice Factor?

Any thoughts?

In reply to sanguine:

You'll get better replies I am sure, but the cold in the Ice Factor isn't so much the room as the walls themselves with the concrete having coolant pipes running through it. I'd guess this is pretty much a requirement or the ice (if its even cold enough) will insulate the wall until the wall is warmer and the ice delaminates.

In reply to sanguine:

What you propose is exactly what has been set up at snow factor in breahead (Glasgow). its ice factors sister site, an ice wall in a snow dome.

In reply to sanguine:

From your thread title I thought you were going to say "Get in the fridge"

In reply to sanguine:

A sturdy tower and a hose pipe with sprinkler system would probably do the trick. A bit like the competition ice walls.

In reply to sanguine:

I wonder how responsive they would be to this idea - as in do I present them a case for a business plan or just say 'Hey, you know what would be a good idea...' Something to chew on I think. Thanks for the tips here Forum

In reply to sanguine:

It was done by a sheffield firm at Castleford Xscape when it first opened, it wasnt comercially viable and shut a few years later.

In reply to GarethSL:


That will build water ice. OK for competition hones with razor-sharp tools, but commercial facilities have needed to create something a bit more accessible to low-grade climbers and beginners. This has tended to mean slushy snow getting packed onto refrigerated walls where it has then frozen into place. Without that degree of aeration and yield to the snow/ice most climbers will have no chance on it, plus there will be a serious safety issue of large shards of water ice raining down on belayers and other climbers.

I worked with this for several years at the Ice Factor and Snow Factor. It's massively labour intensive and unpleasant work (think applying freezing slush from a bucket while hanging off a rope in a sub-zero environment), but we didn't really find an alternative during my tenure. This may of course have changed...

In reply to Jamie B:

Potentially but I think an ambient temp of -4 degrees would mean the ice would be probably wet and relatively soft. The comp walls are normally in places where overnight temps hit the low -20's so ice can become become bullet hard.

But as an after thought, an indoor ski track will surely have a snow maker? A combination of blown snow and water would probably make quite amenable, aerated ice. With some pretty alien features.

In reply to GarethSL:

My former boss would disagree, but I felt that snow-blowing onto the walls didn't work so well - what was produced was *too* aerated. It also tends to fall off steep surfaces before it can bond. But if this is a serious proposition speak to the guys at Ice Factor or here http://www.kongadventure.com/products/activities-and-courses/indoor-activit... - they'll be more up-to-date and delighted to offer consultency!

In reply to sanguine:

To back up Jamie B when we opened the Ice Factor we tried a raft of ideas from trickling, spraying and misting water to small snow cannons with and without water added but found that nothing worked like the compression of wet snow (we tried different types) by hand. Over time there were other interesting things happening (such as rime from moist exhaled air, transformation of the handpicked snow to a more brittle ice if it stayed on the wall long enough etc.). Most of the problems with the use of water seemed, as Jamie says to be because of the confined space and lack of ventilation.
The wall at Braehead in the Ski Centre is in a larger space but hand packing still seems to be the favoured option (laborious as it is)? There is a Korean facility of good size too and I've seen an image of them hand packing too.

In reply to AlH:

Did they ever try a render gun?

In reply to creag:

I doubt it but one of the issues is getting a dense, compressed medium- don't think you'd get that.