UKC

Hi,
I'm wanting to get into winter mountaineering and was hoping for a bit of advice. I've been looking at courses from places like Glenmore lodge and they look really good, however the "Winter mountaineering" course Glenmore lodge offers requires you to already have "good solid core winter movement skills, ice axe etc". I've done a fair bit of hiking and trail running but nothing like that :/. There is the " Winter skills" course but that seems to be pretty much winter hill walking...
What would people recommend I do? I'm free for a few weeks at the start of January so that's when I'm planning on going.
Thanks

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:

I did both types of course last winter so might be able to help.
I did a five day Winter Skills that started from the basics then worked up. By the end we did a grade I gully and also Fiaical Ridge, unroped, probably Grade 1.5, since we didn't do the full exposure of the Grade II section but nor did we stick to the easiest path towards the end.
Later I did a two day Intro Winter Mountaineering Course where we also did the Fiaical Ridge but roped, again around 1.5. Did't do any gullys but did one steep slope out of the bowl which could possibly be regarded as Grade I terrain, not sure as I didn't measure the slope.
I guess that if the group is willing and capable in a 5 day Winter Skills course you may get as far as the mountaineering option, but bear in mind that we only had 3 students on the latter 3 days of the Winter Skills course so a lot more options were available.
I would recommend either, as both were professional and thorough, but it's pot luck how hard your group wishes to push should conditions and the instructor allow. Either way you won't be pushed too far beyond your experience, but obviously you want to be in an appropriate group and not hold them back.
Hope this helps a little.

In reply to MuckyMorris:

That's really helpful thankyou!

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:
If you wanted to get into the more climbing side of Mountaineering why not do a two day winter skills course, then have a couple of days on your own / with friends before going on s more advanced course?

I offer winter skills courses based in Aviemore. Http://www.jbmountainskills.co.uk / http://www.facebook.com/jbmountainskills

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:

I have done the winter mountaineering course and I was the only competent climber and one other had also been out in the hills in winter. While I enjoyed it, I did feel really slowed it all down, but I think you will be fine as they work to the groups capability.

I kind of wished I went down the guided small team route though as I would have got significantly more out of it.

The guys and the facilities at the lodge are great though, I highly recommend them.

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:
The guys above give a good summary of things really:
Going to a large Centre or booking on to an open course often gives access to a team of folk to share the experience with and in the case of a National Centre or someone like Jagged Globe you should also get excellent equipment and facilities/accommodation. However you may find a wider range of skills within the group and the course may have to work to the levels of less fit/experienced. That's why they put prerequisites on to try to ensure a minimum level of ability for all attending.
Going to an independent member of AMI (try http://www.mountain-training.org/associations/ami/find-an-instructor ) or BMG on a bespoke basis is more expensive but then you get a course tailored to just you and your needs. Many of us have our own equipment pools too and can recommend accommodation too but its not quite the inclusive package of a larger provider.
Bear in mind that either way you might get the same Instructor as many of us who work independently also work for the larger providers.
And don't be afraid to PM me if you want to chat about options

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:

Maybe book the winter mountaineering, but try a 1 day or 2 day 'winter walking' course first. This will teach you about cramponning and use of your ice axe.

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:

I did the 5 day winter skills course at Glenmore and although we did the Fiaical Ridge, the emphasis was really on navigation, route planning, kit choice, learning to use axe and crampons and basic survival. I can't emphasise enough how important those skills are and it's well worth taking the time to learn them properly. Once you have those you can move onto more serious stuff - maybe a day or two with a guide 1-1 learning winter belays, moving over steeper terrain roped up, etc.

Facilities are brilliant at Glenmore and the group will be split according to fitness level and ability to learn. For example, our group did some much more adventurous stuff than the other.

In reply to AlH:

Thanks! I'll definitely drop you a message if I have any questions

In reply to GargoyleFeet:

I think I'm being a bit arrogant thinking I could just go straight for the winter mountaineering course, reckon I'll book onto the skills one and I can take it from there!

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:

It's not arrogance - more like enthusiasm! Have fun

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:
You wont go wrong with courses and its probably a good way to learn quickly. However to throw options on the table:

I got into winter climbing/mountaineering via progression from winter walking/trad climbing, although I only climb around II/III so it depends on your targets. I personally would say get out when the conditions are stable and swing an axe in a grade 1 gully and practice you winter walking skills/navigation. That said make sure you understand the basics of avalanche awareness 1st and just walk away (or do a ridge) if unsure.

You don't need special axe/crampon skills up to Scottish II/III (you will learn to swing and axe at this level in 5 minutes), the main things to learn 1st are the navigation (which to be honest takes practice), avalanche awareness and clothing systems/kit all of which can be practiced via winter walking if you wanted.

Another alternative my be a club? Some of the chaps I head out with are from clubs, there is always free knowledge on offer.

PS - your 1st learning curve will be don't plan to go to Scotland for winter climbing. Let the weather guide you!

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:

Glenmore lodge have a set of videos introducing all the basic techniques which helped me a lot when learning, definitely worth a watch

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrqtph4KNo5eR4rEAD698DJPL2kXoBGa0

In reply to Mark1800:

Have a look on the Glenmore site for an avalanche awareness quiz, I remember that was quite good too.

In reply to Mark1800:

I'll check those out!

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:

Do you have winter mountaineering friends?

I started out on a valentine's weekend in Scotland with a couple of mates, wearing borrowed crampons boots. A couple of days walking and ice axe arresting.

Next time we climbed and worked from there

In reply to lordyosch:

Sadly no :/, I've booked a course at Glenmore lodge now though, hopefully things work out well from there

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:
Some sound advice from previous posts. Going on a course, apart from gaining you experience, will save you the expense of costly equipment until you are sure you want to take it up. You will also be more aware of what kit to buy. Noticed your age. Plenty of time, so just go for it a bit at a time. Have fun.

In reply to TheBigFactHunt:

The Lodge offer 'tailor made' courses, so you can mix and match a bit.

The first day of the five day mountaineering course is a review of winter skills anyway, so if you do your homework and swot up prior to the trip you'll be fine, it's all pretty low key to be honest – think developing people so they can tackle the steeper mainland Munros in winter.

Winter Mountaineering could be considered all sorts of things, steep walking, easier winter climbing and even out and out walking feels pretty damn 'Mountaineering' at times.

So you could: hoover up all the BMC skills videos, immerse yourself in the SAIS website which has loads of learning resources and practise your navigation – which you can do pretty much anywhere, that'll get you a start.

When you talk to course providers it's helpful if you can tell them which routes, mountains, etc you aspire to.

In reply to Rich W Parker:

I'll be sure to get a bit of research in before I head off on the course then, hopefully the course is dead good!

In reply to brianjcooper:

I've got a fair bit of clothing already as I walk at Go Outdoors so have been busily bankrupting myself with the staff discount. Boots, crampons etc will hopefully come later and after I've gained a bit more experience . I'm in the Pyrenees at the moment so have been up a few peaks to about 2100 metres