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What's In Your Climbing Self-Rescue Kit?

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Do you carry one?

Whats in it??
 Sharp 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

Couple of prusiks and a mars bar. The prusiks for the rescue, the mars bar 'cause it's hungry work. Oh and a mini-stanley knife and ab tat in winter, and an extra mars bar just in case.
1
 mcdougal 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

It's not really a kit, more knowing how to use the gear that you already carry. Having said that, an extra prussik loop, a couple of extra slings and a screwgate or two could make life easier if things did go wrong.
 GarethSL 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

Two carabiners, two prusiks, 120 sling and a knife. Always part of my rack.

Add a 19cm ice screw, v-thread tool and cord to that for ice. And then pulleys plus a couple of extra carabiners to that if going glacial (in reality that's a separate rack).

Beyond backing up abseils, I've never needed any of those items, but its a comfort to know they're there.
 snoop6060 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

I recently got into a bit of bother in the Verdon. My self rescue kit was two prussics, an ATC and 2 slings. This is what I learned. It really helps to actually know how to use them rather than just think you know. Turns out when it came to it, I didn't really know what to do. And secondly these situations are very stressful and unbelievably tiring. I'd defo carry an energy gel with caffeine in it in future. And some tissues to wipe up the tears from the emotional trauma! I got out in the end, tail firmly between legs and made myself a promise I'm going to learn some proper self rescue skills and probaly buy a small ascender like a ropeman. As well as not be so gung ho!
 StuDoig 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

It depends on what I'm doing, biggest selection of technical gear I'd carry is:

1 x knife
2 x tibloc
1 x revolver screwgate
2 x prussic loops.
1 x micro traxon + screwgate.
1 x mobile phone
1 x snacks.

on a recent accident in the Dolomites we used all of these items except the traxon (though it was going to be used to haul the leader over to us, MR arrived before it was necessary) after the leader fell after traversing up and round a corner.

It's always possible to make do with what you've got on your rack normally but don't forget that the rack may be somewhere inaccessible (i.e. attached to the leader, 20-30m away, round a corner) so good to have a few bits and bobs attached to your harness to solve your immediate problems if something does happen. We'd have struggled if we'd not had personal kit that stayed on our harnesses rather than being part of the rack.

for the majority of mountain days:

1 x knife.
2 x prussic loops.
2 x screw gates (one large).
1 x mobile phone
1 x snacks.

for alpine / glacier add a long ice screw.

I normally (esp in winter) climb with a cordalette which doubles as ab tat and slings are always expendable.

Spent years humming and hawing about whether there was any point the carrying the emergency bits and bobs. One big lesson we took from it was that the 2nd needs to have the some kit on their harness as well - no good it all being with the leader if the leader has the accident.

They certainly made life a lot easier when the situation arose, though I guess you could use less specialist versions (i.e. prussics rather than tiblocs, regular screwgate rather than revolver). Also decided that it was worth one of my screwgates being a big boa as so much easier tying everything back to it when securing ropes rather than tiny lightweight things.

Cheers!

Stu


 GrahamD 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

A couple of prussic loops and, of course, any of my normal gear is fair game should the need arise. Slings and old karibiners are usually first to be sacrificed
 Stu McInnes 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

I see so many people who might have the gear on their harnesses (ie a- a couple of prussic etc..) but absolutely no idea how to use it all. When I'm running sea-cliff and rescue courses it really surprises me how many experienced and good climbers haven't a clue at how to properly keep them and their partner safe or could deal with a situation should it arise. I've seen guys spend entire nights out on a cliff which they could have been off within 20mins had they known how, and climbers stuck at the bottom of cliffs unable to climb out..

The very best "kit" you can have is a good in-depth knowledge of the variety of different skills to sort things out.

Like others have said, on rock, it shouldn't be extra stuff, just your normal rack.

Slings, screwgates, prussics... Having a few other bits can be nice though, a ropeman, a revolver, a steel crab etc, but not essential. If I'm going to a sea cliff where there's no easy route put I'll leave an ascender and a grigri on the end of the abb line.

In the mountains and in winter, ill take some tat, a knife, some old snap gates to leave behind.
 ScraggyGoat 07 Nov 2016
In reply to StuDoig:

Agree, at a minimum having both second and leader having enough kit to arrange an abb is imperative, additional kit is route / self-rescue skill dependant. On the abb' front just relying on slings isn't enough, a good long piece of tat 5-10m (per climber), means there is the ability to rig a very large block or spike and successfully retrieve the ropes. If the worst happens when the belay is a large loop of rope direct round a block if the second has no tat long enough and the leader ends up well below the belay, at the very best one rope is going to have to be chopped and shortened to allow the second to join the leader (assuming the leader is functional enough to rig a belay). Long lengths of tat are particularly important in winter when cracks may be buried or iced.

Nothing like abseiling off a succession of big and bomber anchors on a bad day.
 jkarran 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

Knowledge, experience, whatever remnants of the rack I have on me, the rope(s), what I'm wearing and the landscape around me. It's never let me down yet while rock climbing.
jk
Post edited at 10:32
 zimpara 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

A good partner, sound decisions

A ropeman 2
A prussik
5
 jkarran 07 Nov 2016
In reply to zimpara:

> A good partner, sound decisions

Aren't you the man that went climbing with a labrador?
jk
1
In reply to minus273degrees:

I carry:
2 prussiks same length on oval screw gate
1 sling 120 cm on small screw gate
all clipped together with a HMS

This i never let go off the back of my harness i.e. if the leader says can I have that spare sling on your back its a no!!

 GridNorth 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

The only thing I carry, over and above what I require on the climb, is a very small knife to remove any tat that looks the worse for wear.

Al
 SenzuBean 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:
I see lots of people carrying knives. Does anyone carry a wire saw instead? If not, why not?
Post edited at 13:01
 LastBoyScout 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

Probably wouldn't bother on any single pitch stuff.

Multi-pitch and mountains = prussic cord on screwgates, spare sling on screwgate, Ropeman ascender, knife.
 Dell 07 Nov 2016
In reply to SenzuBean:

> I see lots of people carrying knives. Does anyone carry a wire saw instead? If not, why not?

Because knives are more useful.
 SenzuBean 07 Nov 2016
In reply to Dell:

> Because knives are more useful.

That's true. On those longer routes where wall madness sets in you can more easily disarm an opponent with a knife than with a bit of sharp wire.
 SenzuBean 07 Nov 2016
In reply to Dell:

But in seriousness - what other uses would you use the knife for? Chopping rope/cord is the only one that I could think of.
 zimpara 07 Nov 2016
In reply to jkarran:

> Aren't you the man that went climbing with a labrador?

youtube.com/watch?v=fmFhbwajAqo&

Wasn't me
1
 MG 07 Nov 2016
In reply to SenzuBean:

> But in seriousness - what other uses would you use the knife for? Chopping rope/cord is the only one that I could think of.
A Swiss army knife has many uses...



 jkarran 07 Nov 2016
In reply to zimpara:

Ah, Sorry. Flaky memory!
jk
 zimpara 07 Nov 2016
In reply to MG:

Slicing salami, and dividing the Brie up. No other use to speak of apparently lol
1
In reply to minus273degrees:
> Do you carry one?
Yes.

> Whats in it??
A Grivel accessory screwgate with a knife, two short prusik loops and a tibloc.


My reasoning is that is pretty much both the minimum to cope efficiently with any scenario as well as the maximum you're likely to ever need. There are definitely situations where two "prusiks" are essential and three helpful. It's also the case that a micro-ascender does make certain things far easier so it seems a better option than a third loop.
 maxsmith 07 Nov 2016
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Are people taking a tibloc in case they need to ascend a rope? If so, why aren't two prusiks sufficient?

And I take it the 120cm slings are for foot loop while ascending?

*My emergency kit is currently two prusik loops - but after reading this thread I may need to add to it!*
Post edited at 14:50
 GridNorth 07 Nov 2016
In reply to maxsmith:

It's worth noting that Guide style belay devices can be used to ascend a rope making a second prusik somewhat redundant.

Al
1
 jkarran 07 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

> It's worth noting that Guide style belay devices can be used to ascend a rope making a second prusik somewhat redundant.

As can a turn or two of rope around the foot. Slow and uncomfortable but it works.
jk

 humptydumpty 07 Nov 2016
In reply to SenzuBean:

What's a wire saw? Do they pack down neatly to something that won't saw through my harness when I'm not looking?
 rgold 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:
I carry two prussiks, a small knife, and an energy gel or two in a pocket in my chalk bag, so they are always with me, leading or seconding. On longer routes I'm a fan of the Mammut Multipitch Chalkbag https://www.mammut.ch/INT/en/B2C-Kategorie/Men/Multipitch-Chalk-Bag/p/2290-... , and precisely because I like to leave the kit in the pocket permanently, I end up using that chalk bag for pretty much everything outdoors even though it is a little bigger and heavier than a normal chalk bag. The Mammut bag has a pocket that will hold a cell phone and a small headlamp when doing longer routes, an elastic pocket for an full-size energy bar, another smaller pocket with key-holder that accommodates the knife and prusiks, and an elastic cord for a wind shirt. Unfortunately, it has a flimsy waist belt you don't really want to trust all that gear to; I replaced it with a Metolius Quick-Release belt, but maybe their Security Belt would have been an even better idea http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/chalk_bag_belts.html .

I leave 3 superlight locking carabiners on my harness and don't pass them over to the leader when I'm seconding---these are in any case very handy for anchoring when using just the rope to rig anchors. I carry a double-length thin dyneema runner with another superlight locker on it whether leading or seconding as well. When seconding, I use it to rack gear I've cleaned. The double-length runner serves as a foot loop if prusiking is required. I almost always have an installed tether on my harness, which speeds up all kinds of trad maneuvers and is super handy for self-rescue stuff. Usually it has been a PAS-style tether, but I've recently been experimenting with the Petzl Connect (not sure whether I'm a fan though...)

I don't like Tiblocs because they aren't versatile: if you have to prussik back a rappel line you need something that will work on two strands of rope. Most prusiking can be done very efficiently with a single prussik and a belay device that locks, but I still have two prusik loops just in case. I'm a firm non-believer in improvised hauling; in my experience (practice situations only) it is mostly impossible and hugely tiring, so I don't carry anything special for that purpose.
Post edited at 15:06
 GridNorth 07 Nov 2016
In reply to jkarran:
Absolutely. I don't understand why people carry loads of extra, unnecessary kit although I often carry a coupe of feet of 5mm cord for convenience and protecting abseils but I wouldn't for a second dictate to others.

Al
Post edited at 15:11
 Stu McInnes 07 Nov 2016
In reply to rgold:
Rgold, use 5mm cord (or whatever thickness you're comfortable with) for your chalkbag belt. Much more versatile, I've used mine as protection before when all else ran out, and you could use it as tat.

What do you mean by "improvised hauling"? An assisted or un-assisted hoist is simple with just a prussic.
Sure when you're hauling Big Wall kit that weighs 200kg+ then something like the pro traxion and space hauling makes a massive difference.
Post edited at 15:29
 GridNorth 07 Nov 2016
In reply to Stu McInnes:

Yes my trad chalk bag is on 5mm cord but my sport chalk bag is on a belt with a buckle for convenience.

Al
 spartacus 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:
Bear Grylls has done some useful and informative videos on the subject of self rescue. He seems to know what he is talking about.
 nniff 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

A prusik loop - a sling will do for the other. On a long rock route, a petzl e-lite micro headtorch. Car keys have a tiny 'utili-key' which has a saw blade knife just about sufficent for hacking though tat. Leaving cars keys at the bottom and having some scrote steal them constitutes an emergency in its own right, so car keys travel.
In winter, add a proper knife and a knife-blade peg and some sort of hooky thing (bulldog usually) plus an easy-aider/ daisy chain and fifi.
 StuDoig 07 Nov 2016
In reply to maxsmith:
Can't speak for anyone else, but tiblocs I have are more glacier/winter kit where I've struggled to get wet/frozen prussics to grip on wet/frozen ropes esp when small diameters. for rock routes alone I don't normally take them (though occasionally forget to take them off my harness!) as not expecting those conditions. They are a pretty narrow use item so not one for everyday. They're not really what I'd use for ascending double ropes as you'd need 4 of them as opposed to 2 prussics and they do tend to trash ropes when being moved!

Cheers!

Stu

 maxsmith 07 Nov 2016
In reply to StuDoig:

Thanks stu, so really a winter tool. Think I'll just stick with two prusiks and hope I have a sling/sling-draw handy if I ever need one for a foot loop. I guess the dead rope could be used to create a foot loop in an emergency...
In reply to maxsmith:
> Are people taking a tibloc in case they need to ascend a rope? If so, why aren't two prusiks sufficient?

Two prusiks are sufficient but replacing one with a Tibloc can potentially make things slightly quicker. On a free hanging rope the difference is probably not much, but on slabbier ground there are various different configurations possible in combination with either a normal prusik loop or a belay device in guide mode.

However I've certainly used it a few times as the rope grab for rigging a quick unassisted (3:1) hoist to give assistance on a crux section of a route. It's quick to place on the rope and slides down really easily allowing for longer pulls between resetting the system.

They also work great if you're in a situation where you want to haul and are certain you're not going to need to change your mind and lower again.

Finally, as mentioned by others, they provide a fall back in any situation such as wet, icy or muddy ropes where prusik knots can struggle to grip.
Post edited at 16:43
 Robert Durran 07 Nov 2016
In reply to StuDoig:

> 1 x mobile phone

I thought this was about self rescue.
1
 SenzuBean 07 Nov 2016
In reply to humptydumpty:

> What's a wire saw? Do they pack down neatly to something that won't saw through my harness when I'm not looking?

Yes. It's just a piece of jagged wire. Pop it into a tiny plastic container (e.g. keyring ones that float) and it can just chill there on your harness and weigh almost nothing.
In reply to rgold:
> I leave 3 superlight locking carabiners on my harness and don't pass them over to the leader when I'm seconding
Interesting. I don't routinely or consistently keep hold of extra gear. It's normally the case that I'll still have a screwgate or two an a 120cm sling but not always. Theoretically I can think of situations where I might be very glad of a few krabs and not having any at all would be problematic.

> I carry a double-length thin dyneema runner with another superlight locker on it whether leading or seconding as well.
I've now switched to an Edelrid Arimid sling over skinny dyneema for the one I tend to keep with me. I've found that ability to easily undo any knots a major advantage.

> I almost always have an installed tether on my harness, which speeds up all kinds of trad maneuvers and is super handy for self-rescue stuff. Usually it has been a PAS-style tether, but I've recently been experimenting with the Petzl Connect (not sure whether I'm a fan though...)

I often use a Beal Dynaconnexion when working or if I know I'll be abseiling several times. The rest of the time I don't, however I've just acquired a Kong Slyder??? to make up an adjustable dynamic lanyard but have still not bought the dynamic rope for it...
 humptydumpty 07 Nov 2016
In reply to SenzuBean:

> I see lots of people carrying knives. Does anyone carry a wire saw instead? If not, why not?

Got me thinking. I started carrying a knife recently, and I've used it twice. Once to cut tat for abseiling off, for which a saw would have done the job. The other was to remove cord from a rivet so I could place a hanger on the rivet. This was done at full stretch, with my other hand holding on to my etrier for balance (perhaps I was a liiitle bit scared about gear popping, too). Not something I've practiced, but getting the knife off my harness, open, using it, and then replacing it with the blade away safely was relatively simple. I suspect with a saw this manoeuvre would have been a bit more...exciting.
 humptydumpty 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

On rock I usually have 1 or 2 prussiks, 1 or 2 120cm slings, and a reverso. The only rescuing I've ever had to do is fetching stuck ropes, for which this gear has always proved adequate (but not enjoyable). Beyond a stuck/unconscious/injured leader or second, are there other common situations? From reading the rest of the thread, there doesn't seem to be any other essential gear I don't have. Are there any quicker ways to ascend a pair of ropes than a pair of prussiks and a reverso?
 rgold 07 Nov 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

> It's worth noting that Guide style belay devices can be used to ascend a rope making a second prusik somewhat redundant.

Agreed. I find a prusik and guide-style device (or assisted-braking device) is actually better than two prusiks in terms of speed and effort, especially if you are on rappel.

But if you want to go all commando, you can ascend a rope with nothing...but the rope. See for example http://www.mountainproject.com/v/prussiking-without-any-slings-or-cords/108... .

Swampi 07 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

In addition to much of the above, I've built a mini "escape rack" that's similar to the Andy Parkin one below (mines a Moses Tomahawk #2, the larger Tomahawk #3 and a Black Diamond Cliffhanger):

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/the_andy_parkin_escape_kit

Can be a bit of a get-out-of-jail-free in many sketchy rock/mixed/ice/turf situations.
 andrewmc 07 Nov 2016
In reply to Stu McInnes:

> What do you mean by "improvised hauling"? An assisted or un-assisted hoist is simple with just a prussic.

> Sure when you're hauling Big Wall kit that weighs 200kg+ then something like the pro traxion and space hauling makes a massive difference.

My only proper practice attempt at hauling was unsuccessful. On a free-hanging caving SRT tower, with the rope through a microtraxion then through a screwgate crab (no pulley sadly) on a hand ascender to give a Z-rig/3:1 haul. Admittedly I was very slightly off to the side of the haul, but I failed to lift a relatively light person off the floor either pulling up or (having redirected the rope through another crab) down.

Giving someone a bit of help is much easier than hauling someone who is free-hanging or unconscious. I dread to think what it is like with the rope running over an edge...

Also as a caver, ascending say 30m of rope is hard work even if you have proper ascenders. With just a prussik (and not possessing waddage) I imagine it is total balls.
 rgold 07 Nov 2016
In reply to Stu McInnes:
> What do you mean by "improvised hauling"? An assisted or un-assisted hoist is simple with just a prussic.

I mean hauling with the kind of gear one normally has on a multipitch trad climb. Slings ordinary carabiners, and prusik loops. I'm not speaking of assisted hoists in which a loop is dropped to the hoistee who then participates in the hauling process. I'm speaking of raising a climber who, for whatever reason, cannot help with the process.

It is simple to set up such a haul, yes, but I'd guess that the actual hauling is simply impossible more than half the time and is likely to be prohibitively arduous the rest of the time unless the distance to be hauled is very short. It is one of the big fictions of the self-rescue industry that this is actually a practical procedure. Friction in the system and from the rock simply overwhelms whatever mechanical advantage you might have rigged. The only hope of doing such a haul effectively is to imitate big-wall hauling technique by using body weight for the hauling mechanism, as David Coley has argued, but even so it is going to be a very long and uncertain day.
Post edited at 20:50
 Stu McInnes 08 Nov 2016
In reply to rgold:
No, given the right knowledge applied in an efficient way, hauling is simple and not too arduous.
Your right that often things stack against you, but there are always ways around these hurdles.
If you are dealing with an inanimate object i.e. An injured climber, you'll be aiming to go down not up, so hoisting (hauling) will be minimal. If you are dealing with a load of haul sacks and aiming to go up, then you'll have the specialist kit with you to make it easier to do so..
I would be unhappy if it took more than 10 minutes to get to a casualty in any situation.
 Reach>Talent 08 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:
For all the people who have an energy gel in their chalk bag:

After day old porridge the hardest substance known to man is the sugary concrete formed by energy gel and chalk. If you are going to put a gel in the pocket of your chalk bag try to avoid sitting on it!

I always take a couple of prussiks, a length of cord and a sling. I also tend to climb with a guide type belay device so I can use that for hauling or ascending. I also tend to take a few bits of gear from the escape kit Andy Kirkpatrick recommended if I think it'll be useful on the route.
 GridNorth 08 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

Having stated my position it should be mentioned that what I take on a sport route differs from a trad route and that is different to an alpine route but it's never "more" kit overall. Indeed I usually take less kit on an alpine route, excepting bivi's etc.

Al
 jimtitt 08 Nov 2016
In reply to minus273degrees:

I´ ve a doubled length of cord for my chalk bag and a short loop as autobloc/whatever.

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