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Opinions on bulldogs/terriers

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 mff513 08 Nov 2016
Basically are "ice pitons" any good on mixed ground i have other pieces of "marginal" protection such as 10/13cm ice screws which do the job for thin British ice.
 mike barnard 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

In short, yes. I remember well doing a pitch (on Tilt) with basically no gear to speak of, only to have my partner comment on following it 'would have got a bomber bulldog in there'! So I went out and bought a couple of terriers (they're smaller so seemed more attractive for carrying) and yes, on some thin cracks or hooks they can be good where nothing much else would be.
 DaveHK 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

I treat them like micro nuts. Better than nowt, sometimes good, more often only psychological.
 planetmarshall 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

> Basically are "ice pitons" any good on mixed ground i have other pieces of "marginal" protection such as 10/13cm ice screws which do the job for thin British ice.

Don't know about mixed ground but have used a Bulldog as part of a 'quantity over quality' belay on Boomer's Requiem (V 5). Tapped into a previous axe placement it feels quite secure, though I wouldn't want to take a fall onto it.
 HeMa 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mike barnard:

Ice pitons (Spectre, Bulldog and even Terrier) work really well on mixed ground. But a good selection of pitons might be more useful.
 BnB 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

I've retreated by abseil off a mixture of peg and terrier off the n face of SnG and have found terriers useful elsewhere (and more so than pegs) for Cuillin volcanics, eg Foxes Rake. Obviously I recommend bringing them home with you if at all possible.
 top cat 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:
The DMM offering has a lethal flaw: the toothed section on the attachment ring. It is quite easy to pull the tape through [ie extend it] in such a way that it lies over the very sharp teeth. I have raised this with DMM but they weren't that interested.

Try it for yourself. Of course you could [should] move the tape off the teeth, but in the fight of a typical winter route you might not, or the tape could move during the run out.

I've filed the teeth off mine. They serve almost no purpose anyway. Another safe ,method would be to never extend the sling by pulling it through: treat it as a fixed loop and extend this with krab and tape.


I use mine quite a bit as a hand placed peg in rock.
Post edited at 09:03
 Jamie B 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

They can be bomber in rock, especially in cruddy cracks where nothing else will go. Downside is that they can be hard to get out, as evidenced by the number that are still in-situ. In turf I don't find them as confidence-inspiring as well-driven warthogs, but they're less effort to get in to hard turf. In ice I wouldn't bother.
 3leggeddog 08 Nov 2016
In reply to top cat:

I cut the tape off mine, it had got damage whilst hammering it out and just clip an extender to it.

The fixed tape is asking for trouble and shouldn't be there in the first place on something that is hammered so frequently.

 zimpara 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

I'd like to highlight that, because of their short legs, hoping between ice pillars and breaking track in deep snow becomes an issue, best not get a white terrier, which would make locating it in avalanche debris very tricky.

But for mixed/thin conditions, could be particularly able to cope.
Swampi 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

Is it just me or does anyone else struggle to smack a bulldog or warthog fully into actually properly frozen rock solid turf?

With me the bulldog seems to mostly end up either with the fin floating half in the air or the teeth going partially in diagonally towards the line of pull. Plus I've lost count of the amount of warthogs I've had to precariously tie off halfway in the Polish Tatras.

I've convinced myself that the subtly different geometry of something like a Tomahawk #3 would be more effective in such marginal placements, so have settled on carrying only them for turf now. Plus I have personally found them far superior in rock than the DMM offerings.

What are other peoples experiences? Maybe I just need to get stronger at hammering?
 Toerag 08 Nov 2016
In reply to HeMa:

> Ice pitons (Spectre, Bulldog and even Terrier) work really well on mixed ground. But a good selection of pitons might be more useful.

I dunno, the shape of the bulldog type device ensures better loading in a 'standard' placement. There is a place for pegs though as a bulldog won't go in every placement.
 beardy mike 08 Nov 2016
In reply to zimpara:

Especially with their stubby ground down front toe nails which should be just right for pivoting like monos.
 HeMa 08 Nov 2016
In reply to Toerag:

> I dunno, the shape of the bulldog type device ensures better loading in a 'standard' placement. There is a place for pegs though as a bulldog won't go in every placement.

True... but the thing that makes them not so useful as pegs is that they are all the same thickness... which is the problem, when the crack is just slightly larger.
 Billhook 08 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

Bulldogs are an affectionate breed of dog as so are terriers. Both breeds are easy to .............?????????? And here's me thinking this was in the wrong section of the forum.
 DannyC 09 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

Yes, they're very useful. I've placed ones I'd have given 6/10 - especially when placed in thin turfy cracks a long way from the belay - and others that were a fair bit poorer....

I'd be interested to know if anyone's lobbed on to a bulldog or terrier, and how that went?!

(It's hard to have this conversation without thinking how worrying it would look to the Dog's Trust.)

Danny.
 HeMa 09 Nov 2016
> I'd be interested to know if anyone's lobbed on to a bulldog or terrier, and how that went?!

I friend banged in a Spectre to a frozen and turfy crack a few years back... and then proceeded to fall on said ice hook from the iced chimney above. It held fine, and as far as I know, it's still there... Might need to visit said crag this winter.
 jonnie3430 09 Nov 2016
In reply to Swampi:

Depends on the water in the turf. Normal frozen turf is amazing, turf that is fully saturated before freezing is nails.
 ModerateMatt 09 Nov 2016
In reply to mff513:

I used one that was totally stuck as part of a belay on summer route. I tried getting it out before I cliped it and it wasn't going anywhere.
 zimpara 09 Nov 2016
In reply to ModerateMatt:

RSPCA love to hear about you abandoning a bulldog on a cliff. Gonna tuen yourself in or are we sending the dogs in after you?
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