UKC

Yes, there is still such a thing as a hard-copy newspaper, printed on actual paper, and pushed through a letterbox early in the morning.

Now, back in the days when I were a youth, that task was fulfilled by youngsters seeking to earn some pocket money. Nowadays, however, the task seems to be mostly done by retired people.

If this because there are more retired people, who desire an early-morning stroll as a constitutional?

Or is it that the kids are way too busy on social media using their smartphones? Or that their parents give them too much pocket money so they prefer to lie in bed?

Or do they just find the concept of a hard-copy newspaper too baffling? Or perhaps they're too busy climbing 8b sport routes?

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I've actually seen a number of paper 'boys' that look well into their 20's, are times that hard?

In reply to Coel Hellier: we still get youngsters delivering ours. Occasionally a parent delivers if their kid has a exam that morning.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Maybe parents aren't so happy about letting them wander as far as we used to? (My mum told me off the other day when I took her on the cycle paths that I use to ride to work, as they are 'secluded'. I'm 34, and the paths are lovely! But according to my mum, I shouldn't be on them on my own!!)

Maybe they are pushed incredibly hard in school and struggling for energy to take on work too. Despite the way people love to portray young people as wasters etc, I know a number of the young people that I coach in the climbing wall are seriously stressed by pressure from schools and parents to succeed in a way which I never was.

Maybe the newsagents had a completely fair recruitment process where they didn't look at age etc, but took each person on their abilities to do the job and the older workers came out better?

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I know a couple of kids who still do paper rounds, for the same reason I delivered the worksop guardian in its heyday, but definitely not as many as the 80's and early 90's. There are probably far more kids wrapped in cotton wool nowadays, fear of stranger danger from mollycoddled parents and kids alike. A few kids probably think it's beneath them, the idea of early mornings is probably equally as off putting. I'm guessing the main reason is the decline of paper deliveries in general, a report a few years ago talked of a third of all newsagents dropping home delivery.

Here's an old BBC magazine article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7431224.stm

In reply to girlymonkey:


I'll never forget the terrible shock of the murder of Carl Bridgewater

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36560812

the case remains unsolved.

Going back to the OP, yes I remember paper boys/girls well. I did a round for a bit when I was a lad in the 1950s, and it was a great way of earning a bit of cash and kept you very fit. Traffic was much less of a problem in those days.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I suspect that the households that take a morning paper are so few and far between that a car is required to cover the distance in a reasonable time.

Back when I did a morning round, probably 50% of houses got a paper delivered, I doubt it's 5% these days. I also used to deliver the weekly free paper, this doesn't exist these days.

In reply to girlymonkey:

I'd agree with you. Kids are pushed incredibly hard at school compared to when I was a youngster and the pressures are far greater now. Yes, there will be some wasters but that's never been any different but generally pressures are far greater now as they compete for fewer jobs.

This has an impact on their mental health too. How many young folk today are on anti-depressants? If we bother to find out we'd be surprised at the number. I know of several and was surprised to find out. Looking at someone it is impossible to tell as there is no outward sign.

In reply to bonebag:


They may indeed be being pushed harder in school, but the unemployment rate is relatively low by historic standards (e.g. 5% now vs 12% in 1984).

There are big issues such as house prices being much higher relative to earnings, and having university tuition fees to pay, but presumably those don't (yet) feature much in the mind of an adolescent?

In reply to girlymonkey:


TIMOTHY!!!!!!

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Pay is shite and children these days are lazy.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

They certainly do in the minds of a lot of parents, whose consent they will need.

When I started my paper round nearly 30 years ago, by law I required not only parental consent, but a medical carried out by my doctor.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Still kids around my way. Usually charging around in the dark mornings on bikes with no lights. Sorry, is that a different thread?

In reply to Coel Hellier:

My paper round was about 4 miles a day at 7.30am, around a council estate and up to a farm on the moors and back for about £1.80 a week.
Try the equivalent today to a 12 year old and you'd get locked up for child cruelty.

Wally

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Don't know, but a paper round was the only job I've ever been sacked from.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I'm pretty sure paper rounds were done by kids younger than 16 who couldn't get a proper part time job "back in the day"(early 90s for me). I'd assume that this "grey area" of employment has been eliminated and they have to pay someone a proper amount to do it.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Well, my son worked as one (aged 14) last year, but gave up after about 3 months because he was too tired for climbing training.

In reply to galpinos:

That was my experience too (early 90s) when I was 11 or 12. I used to get about 1p per paper I delivered (my round had 500 houses) and there was no chance, even then, that the local free paper that I worked for would be able to find a 13 year old who would work for that money. It suited me at the time, but I suspect that using under-age labour is frowned upon more these days.

In general, the margins in print newspapers have come down a lot, and with a lower density of deliveries I suspect that it just isn't possible for newsagents to offer sufficient pay to make children want the work. Where I live, I tend to see the newsagents themselves driving round in a van to deliver to their (very few) customers.

In reply to Indy:


do you deliberately aim to be the biggest tw*t on every thread you respond on these days?


to the OP - it's largely because employing minors is a lot more paperwork and more costly these days so much easier for the employer to choose an adult.

It's the same (in theory...easier to go around the system as parents tent to know who they're asking personally) with babysitting. Technically it takes quite a lot for someone to be able to do that job due legalities. Although that's the same for an adult in this case.

Essentially it's not worth the extra trouble of hiring a minor so minor's struggle to get a job. There's good reason for the changes but it can be seen that there's some downsides too.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Newspaper sales are much reduced these days but I still see paperboys and girls out regularly (ditto for those doing a milk round). I expect it has died out in a lot of places though.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Paper round was my first job, did it for 4 years, summers were great (lived in a village) but winters were horrible....especially when icy, number of incidents where I skidded off an into skips/walls etc.

Shame there isn't as much opportunity now due to the various reasons illustrated above. Another interesting feature was that christmas tips without fail were much larger (e.g. £5 vs. £1) from smaller/lower income houses.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I used to deliver the Hull Daily Mail evening paper after school and on Saturdays. It was just one road, about 3 miles long and I only had about 20 houses to deliver to so I could do it all by memory. I got £4.50 a week I think (this was around the late 80s). My mate had to deliver about 50 papers but his round started right outside the papershop whereas mine was a 2-3 mile bike ride so we got the same money. Felt like easy cash back then, especially as we would be riding our bikes home from school anyway so it was no great hardship to tack on an extra 30 mins before going home.

I think the combination of lack of newspaper subscribers, the fact that we were undoubtedly being paid cash in hand with no protection or benefits and the wider fear of stranger danger all have their part to play in the decline of the paperboy/girl.

Does anyone remember the Paperboy computer game from the 80s? It was based on the American kids who only had to chuck the papers in the vague vicinity of the house rather than into people's letterboxes - now that would have been much easier. I remember several nippy dog and aggressively spring-loaded letterboxes which make it surprising I've still got all my fingers.

In reply to yorkshireman:

I remember the game, they deliver them that way in Australia still, albeit they use a moped and the papers are wrapped in plastic to stop them getting wet on the lawn etc.

In reply to Scarab9:



WTF.....

.... and your completely wrong.
There is no minimum wage/employment rights (pension, tax, N.I and holiday pay) for children unlike adults which is a huge cost saving when using children. A quick google shows that pay for paper rounds is appallingly low 10p to 20p? per delivered paper. Children are notoriously unreliable when it's pissing down with rain on a dark freezing cold January morning but the papers have to be delivered. Can't imagine mummy and daddy being too happy to see them disappearing out of the door at 7am for a pittance either.

In reply to Indy:


Back in the day, mummy and daddy would have been happy to see them disappearing out of the door to learn both a work ethic and the value of money. The monetary value itself would not have mattered much to most families.

In reply to Indy:




suggest you go read this -
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/young-people/young-people-and-employ...

The paperwork is considerably more than it used to be and the benefit of employing under 16s is far less than it used to be.

Also I think you need to change "notoriously unreliable" to "in my prejudiced mind"

In reply to Scarab9:


O.K give me a clue! Is it.....

"If you are under school leaving age you are not legally entitled to paid holiday from work."

"If you are under 16, you are not entitled to the National Minimum Wage"

As for employing children, I'll leave that to a news trade body to answer your point....

"The problems with using mainly children as your main delivery source are manyfold. They are generally UNRELIABLE and disloyal, care little for the product and have an alarmingly short shelf life. However they are comparatively CHEAP, which will always make them front runners when planning a free newspaper distribution operation."

My highlighting.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I get a paper delivered on Saturdays, and on the rare occasions I've spotted the deliverer it's been a school-age child.
Most Saturdays I'm up and gone from the house before they come round though, which sort of defeats the object of having the paper delivered...

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Can't disagree but society has made it that now a degree is required for a job you could get with 'A' Levels in 1984. Where I worked until 2012 Ph.D scientists were doing the job that once were the preserve of a graduate scientist.

All of these qualifications require more effort for longer and as you say more at the students expense hence the increased pressures on young people today. All that before they can even consider whether they can afford a house or not.

In reply to bonebag:
For a start children have to be 16 years old today, as a rule you cannot do it from 14-16.

Next, most 16-18 year olds have parttime Saturday jobs which pay better.Smart kids for figuring this out pretty quickly.

I know plenty of kids doing good and 4-5 A levels who easily cope.

Most have the nouse to go out and get the jobs themselves and some are persuaded by their parents its a good idea.

And some of the others are doing voluntary work as an alternative.

And finally, the numbe rof people wanting papers delivered has dropped off.

In reply to neilh:

For a start children have to be 16 years old today, as a rule you cannot do it from 14-16.

Thought the law was that over 14's could undertake light jobs such as Paper Rounds, but with certain conditions regarding start/finish times, etc.

In reply to FactorXXX:

Have you ever carried a bag full of Sunday papers.

Need I say more.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I did a couple of paper rounds when I was 11/12/13, early 90's. A daily round which was a killer on a Friday when the Craven Herald came out, and a weekly free paper on Thursday. The weekly round paid £7 and the Thursday round was a couple of quid.
I recall being regarded as a novelty even then, as I never missed a day. I then graduated (!) onto a market stall which was set up before school and taken down after school 4 days a week including Saturday. It was the army surplus stall in skipton which meant all the stock was really heavy tools or army great coats, but it was pretty cool as we got first dibs on the new gear when it came in!
I will be encouraging my 2 lads to do similar. Maybe in 5 years time a paper round will not be an option, but pocket money will need to be earned one way or another!

In reply to Indy:


I would concur with that from my experience advertising for apprentice positions.
It's been 5 years since my last apprentice started so pay rates have probably changed a bit but then a first year apprentice was on £150 a week with staged increases each year as they learned the skills until they hit 28k plus overtime at the start of their 5th year being a fully skilled bloke.

I got loads of feedback basically kids saying they would not work for such a low wage despite having no skills or education in our field and being a massive drain on my bank balance for the first 2 years whilst I train them to the point of their work covering the cost of their education and all the extra courses I have to send them on.

It seems to me they see the celebrity lifestyle on TV and expect to walk in to a job paying £500 a week from day one.

My niece recently got a paper round, one night a week and a few hours sorting and putting leaflets in them the night before, I don't know what it paid but her parents recinded permission after a few weeks because there is a paedophile behind every tree.

In reply to neilh:


The pattern when I was a kid was paper round until 16 and then switch to a Saturday/Sunday job. Like you say better pay and also high likelihood of extra days in the school holidays giving far more cash.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Delivering the Cardiff post was a terrible job and the nearest thing to slavery that was allowed at the time. Nobody wanted to rag anyhow it was just full of advertising.
For a basic paper without extra leaflets I got about £6.50 for 300 papers, with about 8 extra leaflets I'd get up to a massive £14 and a hernia trying to lift the paper bags. And I had to spend ages putting all the leaflets in the papers first.

Kids these days have probably wised up to the situation and told the sellers to do one.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Normally retired folk just lounge around newspaper stands in supermarkets, having a free read and causing an irritating obstruction to other folk who want a free glance at the headlines

In reply to Dax H:

Well as an engineering business I have never had any issues when looking for apprentices. the kidsthat I see are generally good and I would have more of them if I could.

A guy I know who runs a £20 million business building textile machines realised he had an image problem with attracting teenagers and not the other way round. He refocused the image on the hi tech stuff they do and now he has a queue for apprentices.

Maybe worth stepping back and thinking about how to persuade a young lad to engage in your business might be worth a try.you never know it might be you that has the issue, not them!

And as for being lazy, suggest you might be looking in the wrong place. Far from it.

In reply to jonfun21:


Our local free paper, The Chronicle, (aka The Chronic,) is delivered by a very large man who sits in his GM Astra and lobs them out of the passenger window roughly in the direction of the lawn.

I delivered papers in my early teens, (the South Wales Evening Post,) and returned to it in my early 20's for beer money as a student in Plymouth

In reply to Coel Hellier:
I delivered papers from 80-86. Morning round, evening round and Sunday round. £3, £3 & £4.50 a week respectively, though I manged to wangle a direct delivery from the local paper instead of the local newsagent, which was a whopping £7.

I also did a couple of evenings sticking-up in the pub, which paid well for back then: £4 a night and a pint - the former for danger-money, the latter as a nerve-calmer afterwards. Skittles can be a scary game.