UKC

Feel free to share your own views and experiences if you feel comfortable, id certainly be grateful of guidance or inspiration.

I've tried the online tests which say I'm a fairly empathetic person, but in practice / every day life I don't feel my actions reflect this. I may not be concerned by this except I work with people daily and it also has a bearing on my family. I'm not sure whether I lack in empathy or don't have the ability to care about the perceived feelings of others.
Is there a way I can change my approach to people, and perhaps myself?

In reply to Pesda potato:

My issue may be different to yours, I have empathy sometimes but a lot of the time I don't find it easy to see the other point of view. I was recently diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum, no surprise really.

The thing I've found most helpful is training friends and family to be really really clear in communication.

For example, if I say I'm not hungry, what I mean is I'm not hungry. I find it annoying when people keep offering me food when I have said I don't want it. It appears that some people don't actually mean what they say. If I offer someone a cake and they say no, apparently they may not mean no, they may mean "I want the cake, but I don't want to seem greedy, so I will say I don't want the cake and I want you to persuade me to have it". I feel like I spend my whole life trying to translate what "normal" people actually mean and it's irritating, because they could just say what they mean and don't. I'm sure this comes across to them.

Anyway, maybe try an autism self test. I will post some links if I can find them. I'm not sure how helpful this is.

In reply to Pesda potato:
https://www.wired.com/2001/12/aqtest/

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

In reply to marsbar:

Haha I had this exact thing today with my girlfriend, continually offering me food after I said no. Maybe I'm some kinda autistic too!

In reply to Pesda potato:

I'm no expert but if you're worried about how empathetic you are / want to become more empathetic then I suspect you are empathetic but just can't see it at the moment. If you really didn't care about others then I reckon you wouldn't care that you didn't care. (If that makes sense).

I'd ask someone close to tell you honestly if they think you behave empatheticly or not.

In reply to Pesda potato:
I think it is possible to have empathy but for various reasons and in various situations to be inhibited from expressing that empathy. We have a complex set of reactions and can, by experience or conditioning, acquire internal reactions that inhibit or suppress others that are still under the surface.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Oh yeah forgot to add that I'd done an asd test and came back low so ok on that front.
I do care that I don't care because it affects my work which I'm not in a position to change at present.
My wife agrees I am like this too, as does my manager when I've discussed issues.
I know I go through cycles of depression which also adds to the IDGAF mood but even when I'm not low I often don't care how what I say (or rather the way i say it) makes someone feel

In reply to Pesda potato:

As I get older I find myself more and more empathetic for people in situations where they can't help themselves but are really trying.
Conversely I have no empathy for people in situations where they don't try.

In reply to marsbar:


Out of interest how do you deal with the myriad other circumstances where people are indirect? For example, asking someone how they are isn't really an invitation for them to talk you through their medical problems. Are all these social conventions confusing? Likewise saying sorry when someone bumps into you, isn't really an apology (Americans note) but a way of oiling social wheels.

In reply to MG:

I mostly manage pretty well I think, through having learnt the conventions. It can be exhausting though. I am reasonably borderline, so I can often tell when I've got something wrong. In someways I think I'd be happier if I couldn't, ignorance is bliss and all that.

In reply to Pesda potato:

I think from my reading of the situation one straightforward solution is to pretend to care, at least in the workplace. It may seem dishonest, but it may be less hurtful to them, and avoid you getting into trouble at work. I sometimes have to do this, for example, I don't say to management "ffs what were you thinking, you are all a bunch of idiots" instead I say "I'm a bit confused by your decision, can you possibly explain your reasoning because it appears to me that x y z will be badly affected, but maybe that's not the case, what do you think?"

In reply to Pesda potato:

The second test in my link may be interesting anyway, as it splits into different aspects.

In reply to marsbar:





I'm a bit like that. I always just thought I was straightforward.

In reply to Dax H:




Hi Dax - I think you are talking about sympathy there rather than empathy. Sympathy is feeling 'with' someone, sharing their viewpoint. Empathy is understanding another's viewpoint, even if you do not share it.

(Forgive me if you are fully aware of the distinction - in which case your statement implies that you are losing your powers of empathy as you age.... which may not be uncommon).

In reply to Pesda potato:
Sometimes I think there can be learnt ways of behaving and thinking, as a way of surviving/adapting to our past circumstances (unbringing/friends during our formative years/avoiding certain emotional areas), which can affect how easily we can relate to other people, and meet their emotional needs or what it is they want from us.

Which is possibly something which is too deep to go into on this thread (?), but as I've gone through the quite long process of being more in touch with myself, I've found it easier to 'tune in' to other people (or it feels easier at least).

A relative seems to have some sort of 'shell' of not expressing themselves particularly, while also being quite aware of other people, which can make them seem a little bit cold at times, when they're actually not. It can seem like they're just sheltering within their shell of not expressing themselves very much, perhaps due to their 'very English' parents, and not been very close to them too.

It might be that you need to leave your inner comfort zone as it were, to make sure that people know that you know what's going on with them? I can sometimes be happier just to potter about as it were and not engage particularly, in finding it tiring to engage with people, but empathy seems to be about acting upon what you see in other people (as well as seeing it).

Being human seems quite complex and tiring sometimes, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself...

In reply to marsbar:
I always want cake.

In reply to Pesda potato:

I would be very wary of online tests. There is a lot of pseudoscience out there.

In reply to Pesda potato:

I seem to have to force myself to give a sh*t, I'll go through the motions of being concerned but on the inside I'm thinking God, will you just shut up. I have a pretty good self defence mechanism when it comes to feelings and emotions though, when anything happens the emotion part of my brain seems to shut down,so even though I really want to care, I don't feel anything until after the event. Normally as soon as I'm alone the "feelings" will hit me like a freight train and I'll weep like a baby though, weird.

In reply to KevinD:

I think the 2 I linked are ok.

In reply to birdie num num:

True, not the best example.

In reply to Pesda potato:

Nice post. I haven't read through other contributions but my little bit on this would be that it is to do with mindfulness....constantly paying attention to what/who is around us, and being thoughtful in how we interact as a result. It is about being in the present.

In reply to marsbar:


A cursory look at them would make me dubious.
One is designed by some experts in the field but they say specifically it shouldnt be used for diagnostic purposes.
The other one its unclear what the writers expertise in the field is.
That said it was a cursory look and I am emphatically not an expert or even an amateur in the field. I just remember some rather emphatic lectures on the subject of dodgy psychological tests when i did some psychology as an undergrad.
I suspect the poor professor has had a nervous breakdown by now since that was before the internet really kicked off and so it was less common.

In reply to Pesda potato:

The exercise of empathy is not an issue until there is conflict between 'your' and other's status/behaviour; if you fail to act to another's benefit then you lack motivation. In a work situation responsibilities should be laid out clear enough to encourage appropriate action; in a domestic situation its more complicated. Why give in to someone else's needs if that conflicts with your own ? In the end most of us end up doing whatever we can get away with - but there may be prolonged periods when this equation is blurred - 'if we could see the end from the beginning ...'

There are other issues when doing the best for the other is not what they want - in your opinion; the old motto 'do as you would be done by' falls down when x takes milk in their coffee but you don't ever. In the end there is no simple answer for situations which demand compromise; if you should exercise empathy should not also the other do likwise in favour of your needs ? Which side is 'big' enough to take upon themselves the welfare of the other ? or is it all just selfishness - if you stick with your job / family then there remains something you value from them (a wage, 'love') - but without empathy they may not stick around to fulfill your needs ... forever.

If you beleive you have no need to change its because (paraphrase) you think you're 'the center of the universe'; I read about Katie Melua yesterday - states that in her career this mindset let her to a nervous breakdown. Now who would want that ?!

In reply to KevinD:

I'm not suggesting anyone can diagnose themselves via the internet. Perhaps I wasn't clear on that. I agree with your point in general, but I think in this case having been through the proper diagnosis I know enough to know that these tests are very much the same as those used by the NHS.

The first is designed by an expert (the expert some might say) and is not for diagnosis as you can't diagnose yourself with just a questionnaire. It is however the one the NHS use to screen before diagnosing. The second is based on the first, in addition to some of the standard DSM and NHS ADHD questions, the main difference being the results are given in a more visual way. Again, it's not diagnostic, just indicative. It has been shown over a number of years to be accurate. The format of the second was devised by a computer programmer, rather than a psychologist or neurologist etc but as I said, he uses the standard questions that are well regarded. His expertise in the field is personal rather than professional, but having read his paper, he does seem to have a grip on the science and stats, and doesn't seem to be making it up.

In reply to Pesda potato:

As another way of looking at it I am an empathic person who has learnt to stand back from the feeelings of others. I am still quick to try and help where I can but I don't fret about it or what people may think if I can't. Too much empathy can be as debilitating as too little

In reply to marsbar:


It is a complex subject. Overall though I would stay away from any attempt at self diagnosis. It is easy to misread tests or use ones which are completely misleading. Best to try and get some expert advice from the outset.
i freely admit to being biased. The same professor who ranted about tests which were mostly focused around recruitment took great pleasure in explaining how to game them. Think he considered it a)a service to psychology and b)practical job application training for the students. It made me rather dubious around the entire subsubject.

In reply to KevinD:


Agree with you there....I'm not sure I'd agree with the notion of 'science' in the mix but that's another debate....

I'd be very cautious about any on line or self administered tests...

In reply to Pesda potato:


Empathy does not mean caring about the feelings of another. Perhaps I can empathise with someone by understanding how they view an issue, how they feel about it, what effect their perception of the issue has on them. That doesn't guarantee that I care about them or how they feel, perhaps in some cases understanding their view and feelings has the opposite effect on me.


Being empathetic does not require you to take any action or to do anything, so there is no inherent conflict in what you say here. Conversely, someone with little-to-no ability to empathise with another person may still take actions to help that other person in times of need.

So, break it down. What are you worrying about? Orthogonalise the concepts into empathy, giving a crap, and doing something, and have a separate look and think at each issue and how your behaviour there affects those around you.

Sometimes I can empathise with someone and not give a crap, and other times I can't empathise but I do care. As long as I can do one or the other I'm usually motivated to try and help (Assuming I don't think I'll make things worse).

In reply to Pesda potato:

Isn't there a difference between empathy and being concerned for others? Surely empathy is essentially the ability to recognise other people's emotions and state of mind - either directly through their actions of through context more generally. If you can do this, caring about isn't necessarily the same thing (though presumably is linked; if you can see that someone is upset, you understand from your own experience what being upset is like and probably will be inclined to try to do something to help).

I imagine it's hard for people who empathise easily to understand why those who can't have trouble, to the point of frustration (or worse) in some situations.

In reply to Pesda potato:

Try a counselling skills course. They used to do them as an one evening a week course over several months, at Coleg Menai ( if you're still in that area). The tutor and your fellow participants will give plenty of feedback.

In reply to llechwedd:
That's a good idea I'll look in to it.

Thanks for all the replies so far, it's good to share stuff like this, ukc is a very diverse place indeed

In reply to marsbar:

I'm pretty much the same, and score high on those online Aspie tests too. One unforseen downside of seeing the test results is that I now make less effort. I used to struggle constantly to try and behave "normally", but now I put in less effort, because I realise it's just the way I am. My attitude is now "You accept that a wheelchair user can't climb stairs, so you should accept that I don't deal well with people". This doesn't go down very well
Sorry, not much help to the OP, but I couldn't resist this classic quote from Homer:
"Lisa, just because I don't care it doesn't mean I don't understand".

In reply to Hooo:

I know exactly what you mean.