UKC

Browsing online maps trying to gauge distance and difficulty of a few routes in saas fee and since it seems to be a popular spot on here i thought i would ask. The plan is to bivvy or camp on route. on steep glaciated terrain my group are average speed but on rock scrambles relatively quick.


acclimatization: Jegihorn Via Ferrata

route 1: Lagginhorn - Weissmies ascend via west ridge from weissmes hutte traverse then descent to hohsaas. Seeing people talk about Saas Almagelle to Hohsaas via weissmies if thats a more enjoyable climb?


route 2: allalinhorn via hohlaubgrat - Rimpfischorn - stralhorn. is there a route across allalin glacier back to the Britania hutte?

will listen to any recommendations on alphubel-dom area traverses.

Thanks

In reply to tingle:
Note wild camping is frowned upon in Switzerland and even bivying anywhere near huts may cause problems.

Route 1 would be a very long day. The ascent of Weissmies via the N Ridge alone is a big undertaking (D)

I don't think you will find Rimpfishorn to Stralhorn at all easy. All the guide books suggest the ascent (let alone descent) of the Rimpfishorn from the col between it and the Stralhorn is a nightmare. Check the descent from the Allalinhorn to the Allalinpass too - I don't think it is a normal route.

In reply to tingle:

if you are looking for places off the beaten around there, there is a beautifully situated italian bivi hut (bivacco citta di Luino) just south of the strahlhorn (45 59.815N 7 54 587E)

In reply to tingle:
Jegihorn via ferrata is fun and ideal acclimatization.
Lagginhorn is straightforward (I'd do a simple up and down) from the Weissmies hut area to complete your acclimatization the day after the Jegihorn.
Hohlaubgrat is worthwhile, but the descent via the usual route through the ski pistes lessens the attraction somewhat, so finding a way to avoid this would be good. Be aware of the dangers of planning long days that might leave you exposed in potentially dangerous glaciated terrain late in the day if you are not a very rapid party.
Weissmies traverse from the Almageller hut down to Hohsaas/Weissmies hut is brilliant - well worth doing it this way.
There are some good bolted routes (mostly in the F5/5+ range) on the Dri Hornli ridge (close to the Almageller hut) if you want a break from slogging up big hills. The traverse of the Dri Hornli ridge itself is a good outing for a short day (some trad gear needed, hardest pitches around British HS).

In reply to tingle:

When? 1 is a summer route (and a long day out, quite a bit is proper climbing rather than just scrambling), 2 requires skis.

CB

In reply to tingle:

Your plans sound quite ambitious and are way beyond the ability of myself and probably most of the people posting on here.
That's is not to say you wont be able to carry them out, I have no idea of the level of your experience but note that the advice from here might of limited value unless you get a couple of bad ass guide-y alpinists to take an interest.

Observations I would make...
Your acclimatisation plan is doesn't strike me as enough.
Plan distances from maps mean little in the alps, you really need to base stuff on guide book timings.
If you aren't well acclimatised you'll be very slow.

In reply to JLS:


Yes, vertical interval (and TYPE of vertical interval, i.e. the terrain), are what is far more critical.

Sometimes a long horizontal distance can also have an impact though, e.g. coming back from the Rimpfischhorn or going to and from the Aar bivouac hut.

In reply to JLS:

yeah thats the reason i am asking here as i dont have the books/map yet and going off "swissonlinemaps" and the odd summit post only. maybe the distances arent feasible but now i know thanks. Not too worried personally about the acclimatisation

In reply to tingle:

I would suggest a more likely itinerary, based on your profile would be something like

2+ days acclimatising
Weismies traverse from Almageller to Weismies huts
Lagginhorn from Weismies hut return
If going well Weismies N Ridge

Then take you pick from the Britannia hut out of Allalinhorn (easiest), Stralhorn, Rimpfishhorn. The latter two have routes at a variety of difficulties. There are other options aroun Saas from bivi huts that are much cheaper, if that is a concern, than the main huts. Mostly to delightful but secondary peaks. Take a look at the Fletschorn, for example.

In reply to tingle:

I see now you've done MB and a couple of other things so you will have some idea what you are up against.

I'd say Almageller hut to Weissmies summit to Hohsaas to Lagginhorn shoud be ok but be aware the normal route decent from Weissmies can be badly crevassed so check the guides are using the route before you set off.
Getting from Allalinhorn South to Rimpfischorn and/or Stralhorn might be a bit much to take on and so Allalinhorn via hohlaubgrat and on to Alphubel might be more realistic for you. If you are keen for Stralhorn then you'd best reverse hohlaubgrat back to Britania or bit the bullet and pay for the train down from Mittelallalin down to Felskinn.

In reply to MG:

I think most of that looks pretty accurate to what I'll be doing thanks and the bivvying was more of an experience than a cost thing but I will look into those also thank you

In reply to tingle:

Strongly recommend bivi hits for more "experience".

In reply to MG:


Not sure I would recommend descending the Weissmies by the old normal route these days Martin, it has become a lot longer, more crevassed and substantially threatened by seracs. I did descend it 2 years ago and it felt distinctly menacing, not least because of the rolling growling thunder as we got close to the bottom.

I think Almageller aller retour is now a lot better option, even if it does involve a long grinding descent at the end.

In reply to Simon4:

Fair point. There is another route on that side that might be worth looking at. It lands up somewhere near the lift station after coming straight down the ridge. Pd...apparently.

In reply to Simon4:


The big serac was in a particularly tottering state that year and getting ready for a big collapse - I was there again this September and it looked less threatening this time. But it's definitely well worth taking the lift up to Hohsaas for a good look at the glacier before committing to coming down that way.

In reply to tingle:


Both of which are very useful, but you really need to be aware of what the routes are like, difficulty, danger etc. It is also worth looking at CampToCamp, both for good, current route descriptions and recent outings.


Not wishing to labour the point, but still thinking in terms of "distances" is naive. There are quite different considerations in Alpine situations. Someone pointed out that one of your proposals involved the Weissmies North ridge. I can assure you this is both serious and very long - I still have the scars.


Well become, if not worried, at least very mindful of it. Unless walking through treacle up to your waist while wearing a plastic bag over your head is your weekend hobby.

Best to be conservative in your route choice and then become more ambitious with success, rather than bite off more than you can chew. One possible option from the traverse and bivouac (hut, not bivi) POV would be the Alphubel, then descending to the Mischabeljoch bivouac hut, then down to Taschalp :

http://www.vs-wallis.ch/wallis/huetten/mischabbiw.html

This should ONLY be considered in good weather and when the whole party are well aclimitised, the Alphubel is a pretty featureless high altitude plateau. Most of the descent from the bivi hut to Tasschalp is straightforward, but there is some tricky routefinding to cross a rock rib after you leave the glacier.

In reply to tingle:

Hold on - am I reading correctly that your route 2 is a single day outing? So, Allalinhorn then Rimpfischorn then Strahlhorn?!?

If you're that good that you are considering that, you shouldn't be needing our advice. If you genuinely have no clue about distances/terrain/altitudes etc in the area, I'd suggest getting the books/maps etc and get some sensible plans, then forget about stuff like your route 2!

I'm surprised nobody else has said as much yet!

In reply to Rimz:

With the talk of bivvying I assumed the OP was thinking of multi-day routes - but yes, if the suggestions are for single days then you'd need to be fully channeling your inner Uli Steck for Route 2.
Having done Mt. Blanc previously the OP should have some idea about altitude issues, but seems unconcerned - worth being aware that smooth acclimatisation on one trip does not guarantee your body will always react in that way.

In reply to Rimz:

definitely never said these are 1 day routes. In-fact the complete apposite "The plan is to bivvy or camp on route.". So you cannot read correctly no.

In reply to The Ivanator:
i am not concerned because we will be doing more than the jegihorn, but it was the only bit of info i provided for critique. (its kinda fun watching people go off when reading between the lines to be honest) and even funnier when someone does not even read the lines in the first place!

In reply to The Ivanator:

Agree - I missed the bivvy part, so wasn't reading correctly!

Oh well - still get the books and maps!

In reply to tingle:

There is a nice bivy spot about 10minutes walk above the Almagellar hut on the left hand side as you go up.. Overhanging rock and it had some boards to lie on.

In reply to tingle:

Not wishing to get at you, or to provoke defensiveness, but you might want to moderate your ambitions a bit in the view of comments.

In reply to goatee:
nice one, will be on the look out. Cheers

In reply to Simon4:

its ok simon. I have got you a bit excited and i have found a few new spots/ popular climbs. So its a win all round.