/ Mono point crampons, which one?

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drsdave - on 21 Nov 2016
Anyone got a suggestion as to the best mono point crampon for ice/mixed climbing please? To fit La Sportiva Nepals.
HeMa on 21 Nov 2016
In reply to drsdave:

For mixed Petzl Dart might be the one. How ever, for ice I'd prefer longer secondary points. So something like Grivel Rambo 4s or Austria Alpin Skysteeps seem to be the ticket.

Dave Kerr - on 21 Nov 2016
In reply to drsdave:
I've got Grivel G14 Crampomatic on my Nepals. They're a good fit and I've never felt they were the limiting factor in my climbing.
Post edited at 18:21
HeMa on 21 Nov 2016
In reply to Dave Kerr:

True, especially for soft scottish or continental ICE or mixed. For bulletproof ICE, the secundary points don't offer any support. And it's true for BD Cyborgs, Petzl Lynx & Dart at least.
olddirtydoggy - on 21 Nov 2016
In reply to drsdave:

Petzl Lynx can be set up as 1 or 2 points which is why I use them. Very versatile.
drsdave - on 21 Nov 2016
In reply to HeMa:

I did consider those they looked ideal until you realise they don't have anti balling plates, ok for walk in routes say Rjukan / Cogne but longer softer condition in Scotland, they collect half the hill then I'd fall over and die somewhere so I need something which helps to shed the snow
Big Lee - on 21 Nov 2016
In reply to drsdave:

Bare in mind the cost of replacing your front points when the time arises:

Petzl Dart front sections 90
Petzl Lynx front point set 50
Grivel G20 front sections 80
Grivel G14 front point set 30

(Prices referenced from Needlesports otherwise EMS)

Personally I can't justify Dart/G20 type crampons given the cost of replacing the front sections. G14 points are far cheaper than the Lynx points as well. I think Petzl are having a laugh charging 50. I climb both mixed and ice and I have a set of points that I only use for ice in order to keep them sharp. I use blunter points for mixed. Obviously with Darts/G20s there isn't the luxury of swapping points unless prepared to swap the whole front sections, which would be an expensive approach.

I use G14s for everything from Alpine to ice and are fine for the grades I climb. They're a little bit heavier than other crampons but the set-up is very flexible. If money wasn't an option then the Lynx's look a little more refined.
HeMa on 21 Nov 2016
In reply to drsdave:

> I did consider those they looked ideal until you realise they don't have anti balling plates

I'm assuming you're commenting about Darts? Well, I used them in Scotland a few years back sans problems. And also in the Alps and other locales than Rjukan in Norway. So I'm not 100% set on the antiballing thing. In fact the G14s and Austria Alpins I have, both have antiballing plates, yet they seem to ball up as badly as the Darts.

That said, Lee makes a valid point about the price of replacing front points. Which is why I now mostly use the SkySteeps. Replacement frontpoints are about the same as for G14s, but they cost less to buy initially and also have better point configuration (only loosing to Grivel Rambo 4s and Grivel Racing bolt-ons).
TobyA on 21 Nov 2016
In reply to HeMa:

> Which is why I now mostly use the SkySteeps.

I don't think AA have a UK distributor currently - have in the past definitely but haven't seen their stuff in shops recently. Of course you can order from the big German webshops, but get in quick folks before Brexit has you paying import duties!
GarethSL on 22 Nov 2016
In reply to drsdave:

I really rated BD's stingers until mine broke after 2 seasons. They are in my mind the ideal monopoint. Aggressive secondary points, replaceable front points, not too heavy, don't rust and came with anti ball plates. Shame the steel just isn't up to the job! Newer versions may be better, but I refuse to believe a company whos only response to repeated critical failure of gear is essentially 'tough shit, gear breaks' (maybe so, but after 2 years of not hard climbing, c'mon BD).

The cyborgs are also good, bit heavy but have a very versatile set up, like the Petzl Lynx. The disadvantage is that you need to be handy with a hacksaw and ideally buy a second set of anti ball plates if you want to swap things around.

The lass climbs on darts, as do most of my friends and they really rate them (but then these nerds also use nomics, so they cant be trusted). Only issue is, as lee mentions, the front section is nuts expensive if you ever need to replace them.

For my next pair, I really want to get my hands on some more unusual types, e.g. the Cassin/ Camp Blade Runner, perhaps the G20, or maybe even the Edelrid Beast. If that fails I will no doubt end up with a pair of Stingers again.
Big Lee - on 22 Nov 2016
In reply to GarethSL:

> I really rated BD's stingers until mine broke after 2 seasons. They are in my mind the ideal monopoint. Aggressive secondary points, replaceable front points, not too heavy, don't rust and came with anti ball plates. Shame the steel just isn't up to the job! Newer versions may be better, but I refuse to believe a company whos only response to repeated critical failure of gear is essentially 'tough shit, gear breaks' (maybe so, but after 2 years of not hard climbing, c'mon BD).

Two years is a joke my modern standards. My G14s are over five years and counting and I haven't even thought of replacing them. Black Diamond have had problems in the past with I think the Sabretooths (otherwise one of the other stainless steel models). They should have been recalled based on the number of failures but they never were. I swore never to touch BD crampons thereafter.
ianstevens - on 22 Nov 2016
In reply to HeMa:

> True, especially for soft scottish or continental ICE or mixed. For bulletproof ICE, the secundary points don't offer any support. And it's true for BD Cyborgs, Petzl Lynx & Dart at least.

If you're climbing bulletproof ICE (no idea why you've capitalised this) and want extra support, you can put the second front point back on G14s.
HeMa on 22 Nov 2016
In reply to ianstevens:

Autocorrect for capital ice.

As for moving the front points back, it's not enough. Toe welt touches ice well before the secondary points. I know, as I have G14s and Darts and Skysteeps.
French Erick - on 22 Nov 2016
In reply to Big Lee:

my g14 are 12 years and counting...granted not much left of the secondary and other points. Only now considering a change for that reason. It is not the limiting factor in my climbing. In fact kit rarely is for me!
ianstevens - on 22 Nov 2016
In reply to HeMa:

Fair enough. On mine with both points in they extend the same length, so either were talking about different things of I've got confused. If your toe welt touches the ice before the crampon I'd argue that you've got something set-up wrong, although specific boots and camnpons don't always get on well.
HeMa on 22 Nov 2016
In reply to ianstevens:
Secundary points are the ones pointing forward, but part of the frame. And on G14s they mainly point down instead of forward. If you set up the G14s as monos and climb hard ice with the mono going in only 1 to 2 cm, then the secundary points don't touch the ice and you're not getting any support from them. Same thing with Darts, Cyborgs and Lynxes.
CurlyStevo - on 22 Nov 2016
In reply to HeMa:

rambos are much better in this regard.
ianstevens - on 22 Nov 2016
In reply to HeMa:

> Secundary points are the ones pointing forward, but part of the frame. And on G14s they mainly point down instead of forward. If you set up the G14s as monos and climb hard ice with the mono going in only 1 to 2 cm, then the secundary points don't touch the ice and you're not getting any support from them. Same thing with Darts, Cyborgs and Lynxes.

I now Know what you mean. Mine came with a "proper" second front point which is what I was referring to, not the little runty extra one. Case closed!
CurlyStevo - on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to ianstevens:

Not really. Then Secondary points are the first points that touch the ice after the front points. On G14's these are not positioned forward enough to actually help with stability of the crampon on steep ice.
Master of Ice on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to CurlyStevo:

I agree. If you're not bothered about the weight, you can't beat Rambo 4's
jonnie3430 - on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to drsdave:

Didn't like Nepal's and g14s, the front points never protruded much and I ended buying g20 bales for them. I bought darts recently and they've been great. Big drawback the lack of balling plate, but one can be improvised easily.

I broke 2 pairs of g14s in 10 years, they both went behind the secondary front point, where there is a bit of a cantilever because of the flex at the bolt that holds the front point on.
HeMa on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to Master of Ice:

AA Skysteeps are a tad lighter and have about same config as Rambos. Of course the lightest option is Grivel Racing, but generally speaking bolt on crampons are quite shite for the approach.
In reply to drsdave:

Loved both G20' and now Darts. Loosing the bail-arm groove through wear & tear on the Nepals was the biggest bummer.
CurlyStevo - on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to Mike Lates:

you can get a new midsole fitted to nepals to renew the welt. Feetfirst do it
drsdave - on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to TobyA:

Tell me more about these AA cramps please, have you used them? They look good, reasonable price.
drsdave - on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to Mike Lates:
You don't have a balling up problem on the walk ins then? Do you have experience of the Lynx?? Hope Skye gets sorted this year
Post edited at 18:49
HeMa on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to drsdave:

I can't remember if I did let Toby have a go at my wifes Skysteeps or not. But from using them for 2 seasons now, they are en par with the big brands. Sure, they might not be as refined as say Lynx'es. But they work, and work well. Just as long as the nut keeping the frontpoints in is tight, there's no problems.
winst0n - on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to drsdave:

My Petzl Lynx are really good (IMO ). Dual, Mono or offset dual (which is what I tend to use). Front bail or B3 thingy. Great offset for Norwegian ice. Great offset for moderate (III to VI) Scottish mixed. Probably great mono for harder mixed/dry stuff but I'm not quite there yet.
Master of Ice on 23 Nov 2016
In reply to HeMa:
Lol. It certainly would be an interesting approach. In ref to bolt ins. I'd go for the petzl dlynx as I find the secondaries on the grivel racing to far back to use fully.
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HeMa on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Master of Ice:

> In ref to bolt ins. I'd go for the petzl dlynx as I find the secondaries on the grivel racing to far back to use Fully.

Interesting, as at least my Grivel racings secundaries are rather agressive and work well. Friends unmounted DLynx didn't seems as agrresive. But I guess it depends on where you mount them. I did a fruitboot conversion from old Garmont Towers and desided myself where to mount, so they work for me.

Naturally would not use bolt-ons for mountain routes, but I do use them here in Fin and also Swe/Nor when the approach isn't too bad... I do the approach in ski-touring boots or Sorels.
Master of Ice on 25 Nov 2016
In reply to HeMa:
I replaced the grivel racing for the dlynx on my rebel ice boots. I've found it makes a difference.

I've thought about taking my fruitboots out to Norway with me. Especially for krokan area.
In reply to drsdave:

Rarely walking in on crampons in Cuillin; rock, powder or good neve

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